Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan
Isn't this also a requirement of ISO 17025, which accredited labs should follow? Section 5.10.2 h) reference of the sampling plan and procedures used by the laboratory or other bodies where these are relevant to the validity or application of the results. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: October 8, 2013 5:46 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan The description of needing a test plan may be a fair summary of the forth bullet in the declaration requirements. 2. EC declaration of conformity The EC declaration of conformity must contain, at least, the following: - a reference to this Directive, - an identification of the apparatus to which it refers, as set out in Article 9(1), - the name and address of the manufacturer and, where applicable, the name and address of his authorised representative in the Community, - a dated reference to the specifications under which conformity is declared to ensure the conformity of the apparatus with the provisions of this Directive, - the date of that declaration, - the identity and signature of the person empowered to bind the manufacturer or his authorised representative. Which the Commission guidance explains (pg35) means... In most cases, the dated references to the specifications under which conformity is declared, will be those of the European harmonised standards that are applicable to the apparatus in question as listed in the OJEU. If European harmonised standards have not been used or only partially, a reference to the manufacturer's technical documentation needs to be included and a reference to any identifiable non-harmonised standards or specifications that have been applied. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 3:48 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan David, The EMC Directive does not mandate testing, so it's can't mandate a test plan. I suspect someone in a test lab has been giving you their spin. The Directive requires you to do an assessment, although you can substitute testing for the assessment if you want to. Of course, your assessment may conclude that you need to test. Nick. On 7 Oct 2013, at 17:01, David barid61...@yahoo.commailto:barid61...@yahoo.com wrote: All, I have been told that the EMC directive requires a test plan to be created before testing begins, especially when using a third party lab. I flipped through the directive and guide to 2004/108/EC, and was unable to find this requirement. Did I miss something? Is it just that the manufacturer is supposed to do an EMC assessment? Thanks, David - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com Nick Williams Director Direct line: +44 1298 873811 Mobile: +44 7702 995135 email: nick.willi...@conformance.co.ukmailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk - Conformance Ltd - Product safety, approvals and CE-marking consultants The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG England Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.ukhttp://www.conformance.co.uk Registered in England, Company No. 3478646 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules:
Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan
Isn't this also a requirement of ISO 17025, which accredited labs should follow? Section 5.10.2 h) reference of the sampling plan and procedures used by the laboratory or other bodies where these are relevant to the validity or application of the results. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: October 8, 2013 5:46 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan The description of needing a test plan may be a fair summary of the forth bullet in the declaration requirements. 2. EC declaration of conformity The EC declaration of conformity must contain, at least, the following: - a reference to this Directive, - an identification of the apparatus to which it refers, as set out in Article 9(1), - the name and address of the manufacturer and, where applicable, the name and address of his authorised representative in the Community, - a dated reference to the specifications under which conformity is declared to ensure the conformity of the apparatus with the provisions of this Directive, - the date of that declaration, - the identity and signature of the person empowered to bind the manufacturer or his authorised representative. Which the Commission guidance explains (pg35) means... In most cases, the dated references to the specifications under which conformity is declared, will be those of the European harmonised standards that are applicable to the apparatus in question as listed in the OJEU. If European harmonised standards have not been used or only partially, a reference to the manufacturer's technical documentation needs to be included and a reference to any identifiable non-harmonised standards or specifications that have been applied. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 3:48 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan David, The EMC Directive does not mandate testing, so it's can't mandate a test plan. I suspect someone in a test lab has been giving you their spin. The Directive requires you to do an assessment, although you can substitute testing for the assessment if you want to. Of course, your assessment may conclude that you need to test. Nick. On 7 Oct 2013, at 17:01, David barid61...@yahoo.commailto:barid61...@yahoo.com wrote: All, I have been told that the EMC directive requires a test plan to be created before testing begins, especially when using a third party lab. I flipped through the directive and guide to 2004/108/EC, and was unable to find this requirement. Did I miss something? Is it just that the manufacturer is supposed to do an EMC assessment? Thanks, David - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com Nick Williams Director Direct line: +44 1298 873811 Mobile: +44 7702 995135 email: nick.willi...@conformance.co.ukmailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk - Conformance Ltd - Product safety, approvals and CE-marking consultants The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG England Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.ukhttp://www.conformance.co.uk Registered in England, Company No. 3478646 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules:
Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan
Sincerely, Dieter Paasche x7211 From: Paasche, Dieter Sent: October 9, 2013 9:06 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan Isn't this also a requirement of ISO 17025, which accredited labs should follow? Section 5.10.2 h) reference of the sampling plan and procedures used by the laboratory or other bodies where these are relevant to the validity or application of the results. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: October 8, 2013 5:46 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan The description of needing a test plan may be a fair summary of the forth bullet in the declaration requirements. 2. EC declaration of conformity The EC declaration of conformity must contain, at least, the following: - a reference to this Directive, - an identification of the apparatus to which it refers, as set out in Article 9(1), - the name and address of the manufacturer and, where applicable, the name and address of his authorised representative in the Community, - a dated reference to the specifications under which conformity is declared to ensure the conformity of the apparatus with the provisions of this Directive, - the date of that declaration, - the identity and signature of the person empowered to bind the manufacturer or his authorised representative. Which the Commission guidance explains (pg35) means... In most cases, the dated references to the specifications under which conformity is declared, will be those of the European harmonised standards that are applicable to the apparatus in question as listed in the OJEU. If European harmonised standards have not been used or only partially, a reference to the manufacturer's technical documentation needs to be included and a reference to any identifiable non-harmonised standards or specifications that have been applied. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 3:48 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan David, The EMC Directive does not mandate testing, so it's can't mandate a test plan. I suspect someone in a test lab has been giving you their spin. The Directive requires you to do an assessment, although you can substitute testing for the assessment if you want to. Of course, your assessment may conclude that you need to test. Nick. On 7 Oct 2013, at 17:01, David barid61...@yahoo.commailto:barid61...@yahoo.com wrote: All, I have been told that the EMC directive requires a test plan to be created before testing begins, especially when using a third party lab. I flipped through the directive and guide to 2004/108/EC, and was unable to find this requirement. Did I miss something? Is it just that the manufacturer is supposed to do an EMC assessment? Thanks, David - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com Nick Williams Director Direct line: +44 1298 873811 Mobile: +44 7702 995135 email: nick.willi...@conformance.co.ukmailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk - Conformance Ltd - Product safety, approvals and CE-marking consultants The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG England Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.ukhttp://www.conformance.co.uk Registered in England, Company No. 3478646 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website:
[PSES] Does conformance to EN 60335-1 + -2-29 sufficiently address possibilitiy of overcharging?
Experts, I'm getting into some new (for me) territory, looking at a system with a battery charger and a sealed, no maintenance, lead acid battery. The battery charger claims an IUU charging profile and assessment to the subject standards. I have read the standard's abnormal operation section and see it requires consideration of potential dangerous malfunctions. Does anyone know whether application of these standards to a charger typically sufficiently considers the possibility of overvoltage output that could over charge the target battery (potentially producing more H2 than the battery can absorb)? Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan
There is a difference between 'Test Conditions' and a 'Test Plan'. Test conditions should be coincident with the installation instructions and/or the operators manual, and are a subset of the test plan. The lab cannot operate the equipment outside of the conditions of acceptability. Brian From: Gartman, W. Richard [mailto:rgart...@ti.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:46 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan I use the test plan as a set of instructions for the lab to follow when testing. This keeps the lab from getting creative in the scope of work. This also allows for repeatable testing of the product at a later date if necessary. We know how it was tested and under what conditions. W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP Product Stewardship Manager Texas Instruments, Education Technology 13532 N Central Expressway, Dallas, TX 75243 Office: 214-567-7927 Email: rgart...@ti.com www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship www.ti.com/ccr Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one earth - don't waste it. Car racing also prepares you for and expects you to live in the moment - perspective comes before and after the race. Preparation equals success. From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 4:46 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan The description of needing a test plan may be a fair summary of the forth bullet in the declaration requirements. 2. EC declaration of conformity The EC declaration of conformity must contain, at least, the following: - a reference to this Directive, - an identification of the apparatus to which it refers, as set out in Article 9(1), - the name and address of the manufacturer and, where applicable, the name and address of his authorised representative in the Community, - a dated reference to the specifications under which conformity is declared to ensure the conformity of the apparatus with the provisions of this Directive, - the date of that declaration, - the identity and signature of the person empowered to bind the manufacturer or his authorised representative. Which the Commission guidance explains (pg35) means. In most cases, the dated references to the specifications under which conformity is declared, will be those of the European harmonised standards that are applicable to the apparatus in question as listed in the OJEU. If European harmonised standards have not been used or only partially, a reference to the manufacturer's technical documentation needs to be included and a reference to any identifiable non-harmonised standards or specifications that have been applied. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 3:48 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan David, The EMC Directive does not mandate testing, so it's can't mandate a test plan. I suspect someone in a test lab has been giving you their spin. The Directive requires you to do an assessment, although you can substitute testing for the assessment if you want to. Of course, your assessment may conclude that you need to test. Nick. On 7 Oct 2013, at 17:01, David barid61...@yahoo.com wrote: All, I have been told that the EMC directive requires a test plan to be created before testing begins, especially when using a third party lab. I flipped through the directive and guide to 2004/108/EC, and was unable to find this requirement. Did I miss something? Is it just that the manufacturer is supposed to do an EMC assessment? Thanks, David - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com Nick Williams Director Direct line: +44 1298 873811 Mobile: +44 7702 995135 email: nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc
Re: [PSES] Standards copyright lawsuit
In message 5252fe1f.3010...@earthlink.net, dated Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Cortland Richmond k...@earthlink.net writes: . But imagine one day finding that one has been convicted in absentia of speeding through a town without speed limit signs, limits available only by subscription. That applies in many third-world countries; the police collect the subscriptions. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all give the same information. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Does conformance to EN 60335-1 + -2-29 sufficiently address possibilitiy of overcharging?
Lauren, I think the standards committee would argue that this hazard is dealt with by the requirement in EN 60335-2-29 §7.1 for a statement in the instructions WARNING: Explosive gases. Prevent flames and sparks. Provide adequate ventilation during charging. Regards Nick. On 9 Oct 2013, at 16:58, Crane, Lauren lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com wrote: Experts, I’m getting into some new (for me) territory, looking at a system with a battery charger and a sealed, no maintenance, lead acid battery. The battery charger claims an IUU charging profile and assessment to the subject standards. I have read the standard’s abnormal operation section and see it requires consideration of potential “dangerous malfunctions”. Does anyone know whether application of these standards to a charger typically sufficiently considers the possibility of overvoltage output that could over charge the target battery (potentially producing more H2 than the battery can absorb)? Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
