Re: [PSES] standards update and legal madness
- The customer could also view the situation as the standards body performing due diligence, and making corrections to the standard when they discover issues. Performing standards maintenance helps protect the customer in case of user lawsuits. - I wonder if there's an 'errors and omissions' clause somewhere in the standard or certification paperwork? Maybe the standards body already has insurance to cover issues like this. - Could a certification body choose to withdraw their certification (now or later) based on the hassle of a lawsuit? Go somewhere else to get approval. Pat On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.comwrote: None of this is a representation of my employer. A company makes a component for North American market designed for the needs of a single customer. The company received notices from CSA and UL with tabulation of standards corrections. The company informed affected customer of time and cost to update. The company then receives letter from the customer's legal dweebs - they want to see complete list of organizations and individuals that contributed to the errors that caused a mandatory update to the standard. The company's customer is considering pursuing a tort for lost opportunity and professional incompetence. Has this ever been done? Has a member of a TC/WG ever been served with a subpoena for this stuff? Is this stupid or just insane? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] standards update and legal madness
Hi Brian: ... they want to see complete list of organizations and individuals that contributed to the errors that caused a mandatory update to the standard. Errors is an assumption made by the customer lawyers. I would disagree that the mandatory updates were due to errors. Seldom do published and established standards have errors. Most standards changes are the result of new information which is considered important to be included in the standard. Safety standards published by UL (which are ANSI standards) and CSA are consensus standards. Everyone has a say in what is (or is not) in the standard. Sort of like naming Congress for errors in Obamacare. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] standards update and legal madness
FWIW, the legal dorks seem to be backing off. Probably because they did not see
a big pay day.
Agree, in part, with Mr. Woodgate that the industry 'gets what they deserve'.
But we have previously discussed the limits of corporate and individual
participation in the standards development process. The new CEO supports my
involvement, in both time and monies, in standards dev. During previous 15
months, have volunteered for six committees/groups; and have submitted nine
comments to various standards groups. three comments were acknowledged, and
one comment was given consideration (the three acknowledged comments were to
ANSI STPs). And kudos to UL for their support via the CSDS site.
Per Mr. Knute - also agree that the ANSI process seems to be run ok. But
participation for ANSI STP is limited for good reason - they try not to allow
any single interest category exceed 1/3, and most of these groups have more
than enough reps from industry/mfrs('Producers'). The other reason will never
serve on a committee is that I am not an expert on any single subject area, so
the respective chairpersons are probably doing well to not allow half-wit
redneck engineers, that want to write standards in Klingon, become members.
Finally, yes the company did design the product with consideration to 'future'
requirements. But I still need a report that indicates the correct version of
the standard.
In any case, it is a beautiful Saturday afternoon in Southern California, and
my dog misses me.
Brian
-
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Re: [PSES] standards update and legal madness
In message e2bb98c9e17843a6ad8d5d1d6159b...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook.com , dated Sat, 9 Nov 2013, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: The other reason will never serve on a committee is that I am not an expert on any single subject area, That's NOT a disadvantage, at least it hasn't been for me, and I've been doing standards work for 50 years. Clearly, you have to know when to speak and when not, but a naive question can often not only open a can of worms but administer an effective anthelmintic as well. Also, you can learn about new subjects and occasionally you find that the real experts don't know about something very helpful that can be adopted from another field. so the respective chairpersons are probably doing well to not allow half-wit redneck engineers, that want to write standards in Klingon, become members. In some committees, judging by the drafts they emit, those are the criteria for membership. Not exactly Klingon; English words are used but no useful meaning can be extracted from the sentences. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex silvis sumus John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
