[PSES] WEEE Directive Compliance for Small Operators
Group, I'm working with a startup that will import ITE into the EU. They market entirely via the internet so they have no distribution there. They've received a quote from one of the large well-known WEEED compliance organizations, but it exceeds 12K euros/year and they expect to sell less than 2 kg of WEEE into the entire EU within in 2014. This cost is unmanageable for this small startup at this point. Do any of you have experience in satisfying WEEED compliance responsibilities for very small organizations with no presence within the EU? Please feel free to contact me privately if you can help. Thanks very much, Carl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
I suspect many of us came into EMC unconventionally. I certainly did. I walked into a job in EMC at Wang Labs after retiring from an Army career that had me in the Signal Corps and Transportation Corps in communications and repairing Avionics (also supervising and instructing). I had been playing with electronics since age 12, when I used a TV focus coil to build in my bedroom what some might call a rail-gun. On retiring from the Army I was a single parent with a pension that only paid the rent. I wanted work as an instructor, but without a degree, the only people who made an an offer paid less than I'd gotten on Active Duty. Luckily, my my brother passed a copy of my resume' to his neighbor, who worked for a large computer firm now defunct, Wang Labs. I was able to show them I knew how to use the equipment and already had a high enogh security clearance for Tempest work, so I was in. Having come up through the lab, I look for not merely theory, but a feel for systems and problems. A couple of my later employers had me interviewing job applicants and I got an (undeserved, IMO) reputation for being a difficult interviewer, handing candidates a ferrite bead, for example, and asking, What is this? What does it do? and How? or something like aPRD-219 http://www.webalice.it/bruno.santalucia/UNK.JPG and asking, What is this and how is it used? (I own a couple.) Most of the scrUwups I've seen were the result of engineers or managers (not just in EMC): 1) Ignoring (or ignorance of) basic principles of EMC design; for example, as Mother used to say (not really) Cortland! Put that electron back before he yells for his Dad! 2) Neglecting to get all parties to producing a product to ATTEND design reviews and point out what they can and can't do given the design and desired results. 3) Ignoring (again BASIC) principles of shielding and grounding even in testing (all too common). 4) Not talking directly to engineers and techs on projects outside their own areas of expertise. Everything matters. Even firmware. 5) Not looking at systems a whole; test setups, platform or user configurations, regulations and standard -- everything that concerns emissions and susceptibility in use. It took time and effort (and one actual RFI complaint) to convince a manufacturer of telco equipment that if it was on or near a residential property it had to meet FCC Class B. It has been the rare employer whose management was on board with EMC problem *prevention*; perhaps surprisingly, one of my better ones was Tandy, whose first venture into the IBM compatible computer market in the late 1980's was not only yanked off the market by the FCC, but incurred a sizable fine for not having been submitted for testing (it failed). That'll motivate you! It did get a me a job there. IMO, an organization needs both educated engineers and those who can hold people to basic principles; if you do all the simple things right, you will usually have done the complex ones too. WRT the EMC Cop role, I prefer the missionary position (heh). Really, convert them, don't yell at them. An Outside Expert many of us, at least in the US, know, was called in to look at a PWB design and his first words to the CAD layout guy were Your board is a piece of sh*t! How not to influence people, etc. They did listen to my simpler and less confrontational advice thereafter. I'd have LOVED to get a job applicant who could show what's wrong, what's right, and explain why in plain English; colleagues not in EMC will often want simple rules: X mils of clearance and Y mils of prepreg; Z mils of copper between bypass caps and devices etc. Sometimes it's worthwhile to make design rules simple just to get them followed... but one must know what the rules do, and why, and be able to teach those who must follow them . I was offered a job at DSC Communications (later Alcatel USA) as a test engineer, and when I arrived, they gave me the choice of that or design. That was no choice at all; I chose design for, as I answered when asked why, test engineers have to fix the same problems over and over, but design engineers can stop them from happening, By dint of constant, friendly and informal oversight (I asked for and got read-only access to the schematics and layout of every project from my own terminal) and collaboration with designers in every group, I did that. I even got the mechanical engineers on board. (That took a lunch and learn with a modified stock-pot shielded enclosure and a hand held radio receiver. ) I didn't realize then, but I would learn, that I needed to keep an eye on what the firmware and software did, too. What does the EMC engineer need to be? Theoretician, practical engineer, teacher, tech, missionary and salesman; electronics, metals, coatings, insulators and chemistry; tooling, manufacturing and maintenance, all of that too, essentially a systems engineer with a finger in every
Re: [PSES] EN 50581 part/range of parts
Lauren and others, I have read (I believe carefully) this FAQ. From Q8.14 and Directive Article 7(g) I see that product identification can be batch number. For my understanding it is not unique identification called in Annex VI. But OK let it be, I don't care because my products have unique numbers. Q8.9 says that DoC would reference the product normally by the model number. I don't believe that ANNEX VI 1. No(unique identification of EEE): means model number, but I must all the time suppose that I don't understand English good enough. Can someone tell me if unique identification of EEE can really be understand as model number ? I really don't believe! If FAQ is in opposite to directive itself than I must remember of FAQ Preface: These FAQ reflect the views of DG Environment and as such are not legally binding: binding interpretation of EU legislation is the exclusive competence of the Court of Justice of the European Union. I still don't know if I have to issue separate DoC for each device (I have not batch numbers, but individual numbers). Q8.10 and Q9.6 directs me to EN 50581 to get presumption of conformity so it still looks that I need the declaration for each 100pcs of resistors I will order. I don't think that order saying that I order ROHS2 compliant parts and invoice saying that they are ROHS2 can be understand as signed contract which would allow me not to have supplier declaration. How high is in your opinion probability that if Court of Justice of European Union will have to decide if such order and such invoice can really be understand as signed contract than they will say yes. It would help a lot if I could believe it is around 95%, but unfortunately (based on my understanding of English) I believe it is around 0%. The most surprising for me is the Q7.2. I knew that: - carrot is the fruit, - snail is the fish, - Poland, Germany and some other countries have no access to the sea, and it looks that I should add to that list that: - light is not electromagnetic field. Best Regards Piotr Galka - Original Message - From: Crane, Lauren To: Piotr Galka ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 2:22 AM Subject: RE: [PSES] EN 50581 part/range of parts Piotr, Reading the EU Commission's FAQ on RoHS2 might help you http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/rohs_eee/pdf/faq.pdf. Components (i.e. things not intended for direct sale to the end user) are not considered to be in scope of RoHS (even though they fit the definition of EEE). It has to do with the concept of finished product. So, if you are going to be using the 100pcs of resistors in your product, you should constrain your supplier with a contract that requires them to be RoHS compliant, but you do not need a DoC from them. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Piotr Galka [mailto:piotr.ga...@micromade.pl] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 8:27 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EN 50581 part/range of parts To English language standard experts, How do you understand specific part and specific range of parts in last sentence in EN 50581:2012 Cl. 4.3.3 (a): Such declarations ... shall cover a specific ... part ... or a specific range of ... parts... According to: - directives understanding of putting product on the market (not type but single piece), - direct meaning of the words (as I fill them), it looks that: part = this one single part, range of parts = some (specified) number of the same type parts. If it is true I see problems with ROHS DoC. If I buy 100pcs of 0603 1k resistors should I ask the supplier for sending me the declaration for specified range of these 100pcs ? And the same for all 200 other types of elements ? The other way of understanding is: part = part type (resistor 0603 1k) range of parts = range of part types (resistor 0603 from 1ohm to 10Mohm) This looks more logical for someone trying to make ROHS DoC but: If they wonted to say part type or range of part types they would certainly said that. As they didn't said that I think they had the previous understanding in mind. What is the solution I don't see ? Best Regards Piotr Galka - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List
[PSES] CPSC product recall
For those who don't subscribe to InCompliance magazine or track recalls through other methods, the below link is related to a US product recall of a relocateable power tap with surge protection. http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2014/Schneider-Electric-Recalls-APC-Surge-P rotectors/ Regards, Peter L. Tarver This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] lab for MS810 stuff
Again, having trouble getting lab to respond and return correspondence. Need a site to do a small subset of MS810 shock/vibration, and a little thermal stuff as part of a regression. Must be in Southern California, prefer San Diego area. [A note to CABs and test labs - when you provide poor response/poor work for a small company with a small job, you will lose the big jobs that the small company does for Fortune 1k corporations.] Thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Equipment rack for GR1089 testing - does it have to be metal?
Hello All, Is there a formal requirement, by either Telcordia/NEBS or by the major telecom carriers that the equipment rack (i.e. not the cable rack) be metal, when testing radiated immunity per the GR1089? I understand it is the usual practice - I have only seen such tests with a metal rack - but I am asking if there is such a requirement spelled out anywhere. I can't find it in GR1089. If any on this list knows of it, please can you forward the document, at least maybe a snapshot of the relevant paragraph along with the reference if the document can't be forwarded. Thank you, Neven - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Equipment rack for GR1089 testing - does it have to be metal?
Hi Nevin, The rack requirement is not in GR-1089. It is a supplemental Verizon document http://www.verizonnebs.com/TPRs/VZ-TPR-9305.pdf Regards, Mike From: Neven Pischl [mailto:neve...@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:07 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Equipment rack for GR1089 testing - does it have to be metal? Hello All, Is there a formal requirement, by either Telcordia/NEBS or by the major telecom carriers that the equipment rack (i.e. not the cable rack) be metal, when testing radiated immunity per the GR1089? I understand it is the usual practice - I have only seen such tests with a metal rack - but I am asking if there is such a requirement spelled out anywhere. I can't find it in GR1089. If any on this list knows of it, please can you forward the document, at least maybe a snapshot of the relevant paragraph along with the reference if the document can't be forwarded. Thank you, Neven - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Equipment rack for GR1089 testing - does it have to be metal?
Thanks Mike. I checked by searching the document for the words: metal, rack, frame, shelf - each separately - and can't find in the Verizon document any specification or requirement that the rack must be made out of metal (or not). ANy idea where it might be? Neven - Original Message - From: Mike Cantwell mike.cantw...@outlook.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 5:52:21 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] Equipment rack for GR1089 testing - does it have to be metal? Hi Nevin, The rack requirement is not in GR-1089. It is a supplemental Verizon document http://www.verizonnebs.com/TPRs/VZ-TPR-9305.pdf Regards, Mike From: Neven Pischl [mailto:neve...@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:07 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Equipment rack for GR1089 testing - does it have to be metal? Hello All, Is there a formal requirement, by either Telcordia/NEBS or by the major telecom carriers that the equipment rack (i.e. not the cable rack) be metal, when testing radiated immunity per the GR1089? I understand it is the usual practice - I have only seen such tests with a metal rack - but I am asking if there is such a requirement spelled out anywhere. I can't find it in GR1089. If any on this list knows of it, please can you forward the document, at least maybe a snapshot of the relevant paragraph along with the reference if the document can't be forwarded. Thank you, Neven - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.org GT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT; emcp...@radiusnorth.net GT; Mike Cantwell LT; mcantw...@ieee.org GT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT; j.bac...@ieee.org GT; David Heald LT; dhe...@gmail.com GT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
