Re: [PSES] ErP and Control Question
However, Scott has said 'The product will also go into standby if it loses communication with the controller ' so if there is no controller it will always be in standby mode and would appear to comply. As John noted when joined the product and controller become a 'system', and the 'system', whether your controller or not, can be used to verify that the product goes into standby as required. Similar to testing with a generic laptop that is not sold by the manufacturer of a peripheral product that is the UUT. Steve Brody sgbr...@comcast.net -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 4:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ErP and Control Question In message 54c367f5.4020...@gmail.com, dated Sat, 24 Jan 2015, Scott Douglas sdouglas...@gmail.com writes: 3.Controller is sold alone or it might be sold with the product. 4.Product does not function without an external controller of some sort. The specific version of product in question cannot work without our controller. What matters is whether the product is intended to be sold without the controller. If not, the two units are a 'system' and the requirements appear to be met. If you want to sell the product alone, you are in some trouble, because you can't even test it alone. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] SELV rated power supplies
Dear Boštjan: You said: Input voltage above 60Vdc can be treated as TNV-2 circuit and according to the standard, it is enough to have basic insulation input to output, however, fault condition tests still need to be conducted. So basic + supplementary is not always required if input is 60VDC. A TNV-2 circuit can be up to 71 volts peak or 120 volts d.c., but it cannot be accessible (to an ordinary person) or connected to a SELV circuit. The separation requirements between TNV-2 and SELV/accessible parts is basic insulation and, if necessary, fault tests. If a dc/dc converter generates greater than SELV in its operation but less than 71 volts peak or 120 volts d.c., I suppose the circuit can be classed as TNV-2, although this seems strange to me. Same for 71 volts peak or 120 volts d.c supply circuit to the converter. (If the output remains SELV during and after a fault test of basic insulation, the test proves that the basic insulation is not necessary; this is a flaw in the standard.) Best regards, Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Manufacturer's Stated Accuracy (MSA)
Hi Doug: Percent means “percent of some value.” It’s a multiplication of the percent number times the reference or specified value divided by 100. So, a spec might say “within 1% of 55. This would be 1 times 55 divided by 100, which is 0.55. The result is 54.45 to 55.55. +/- 1% would be redundant. Best regards, Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] ErP and Control Question
In message caltjt6p-munxfcvdrmq8qhgtugdqdo2xadpnn3xbhvt4zqh...@mail.gmail.com, dated Fri, 23 Jan 2015, Scott Douglas sdouglas...@gmail.com writes: The key question here is, can we use the external controller to determine when the product should go into standby? Is that a fair means to address the ...must automatically go into a mode... requirement? Does that meet the requirements of the regulation? If the product is unusable without the controller, the two units form a 'system' that should be considered as a whole. Given that, it seems that the requirements are net. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] ErP and Control Question
In message 54c367f5.4020...@gmail.com, dated Sat, 24 Jan 2015, Scott Douglas sdouglas...@gmail.com writes: 3.Controller is sold alone or it might be sold with the product. 4.Product does not function without an external controller of some sort. The specific version of product in question cannot work without our controller. What matters is whether the product is intended to be sold without the controller. If not, the two units are a 'system' and the requirements appear to be met. If you want to sell the product alone, you are in some trouble, because you can't even test it alone. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] ErP and Control Question
Steve, Answers: 1.International AC Mains fed for the product. 2.External brick or POE for the controller. 3.Controller is sold alone or it might be sold with the product. 4.Product does not function without an external controller of some sort. The specific version of product in question cannot work without our controller. Regards, Scott On 1/23/2015 10:09 PM, Steven Brody wrote: Scott, Questions: 1.What is the power source for the product – internal mains fed power supply or external brick 2.What is the power source for the controller – internal mains fed power supply or external brick 3.Is the product sold alone or is the external controller sold with it? 4.Can it be assumed the product does not function without the external controller? /Steve Brody/ /sgbr...@comcast.net mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net/ // *From:*Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, January 23, 2015 6:20 PM *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject:* [PSES] ErP and Control Question Fellow List Peoples, I have a product that takes in various signals and connects these to output ports, something like an Ethernet switch (but does not meet the definitions of the regulation for that). The product was not designed to monitor traffic on any of the ports so it cannot know when the port/path is not being used. The product is configured and controlled only by an external controller. When a path is not being used, the external controller sets the output ports to null. The controller is in constant communication with the product, much like a ping on the network. The product will go automatically into standby on power up if no controller is connected. The product is smart enough to know when all ports are set null and will go into standby when it senses that. The product will also go into standby if it loses communication with the controller. But it cannot know if traffic is passing. The key question here is, can we use the external controller to determine when the product should go into standby? Is that a fair means to address the ...must automatically go into a mode... requirement? Does that meet the requirements of the regulation? What else am I not telling? Or I am missing? I look forward to your comments on any side of the equation. And thank you in advance to for them. Best regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
