Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

[John Woodgate]

It's not helpful to quote a dictionary or grammar when the terminology is not 
agreed. For Rich, misuse is defined differently from your definition. Game 
over. 

This topic is a 'thicket' - something that gets more difficult to penetrate the 
further you go in. 

One aspect not commonly studied by engineers is biological. The sub-species 
Homo sapiens sapiens is in fact labile. Due to an insufficiently evolved brain, 
individuals easily metamorphose behaviourally into the very closely related 
sub-species Homo sapiens fatuus. Affected persons, for example, respond 
positively to an invitation to 'Hold this wire!' (;-)

Since this effect appears wholly unpredictable, it begs the question of what is 
'reasonably probable'.

With best wishes OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England


> -Original Message-
> From: Rodney Davis [mailto:rodney.da...@mitel.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 6:18 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply
> 
> wow!
> 
> verb: misuse; 3rd person present: misuses; past tense: misused; past 
> participle:
> misused; gerund or present participle: misusing
> /misˈyo͞oz/
> 1. use (something) in the wrong way or for the wrong purpose.
> 
> i.e. using a PSU intended to power equipment indoors and in fact using it to 
> power
> something outdoors is misuse.
> 
> Misuse and ignoring warnings  ...sorry these not synonymous..
> 
> 
> 
> From: Richard Nute 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:05 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply
> 
> > Depending on the
> > product I could easily see using an indoor only rated
> > power supply outdoors as possible misuse.
> 
> That depends on your definition of "misuse."
> 
> If "misuse" means using the product for something other than its intended 
> use, then
> using the product outdoors is not misuse.  If we use this definition, misuse 
> is not
> predictable as it depends on the user's motives and objectives; standing on a 
> chair
> is misuse of the chair.
> 
> If "misuse" means using the product contrary to instructions (indoor use 
> symbol),
> then using the product outdoors is misuse.
> 
> Not following instructions, I assert, is a fault of a behavioral safeguard.  
> Using the
> product outdoors is a single (behavioral) fault condition; a second 
> (physical) fault
> could lead to an injury.
> 
> I use the first definition.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Rich
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
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> liability
> for breach of security, error or virus that may result from the transmission 
> of this
> message.
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to  p...@ieee.org>
> 
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> 
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> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For 

Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

[Rodney Davis]

wow!

verb: misuse; 3rd person present: misuses; past tense: misused; past 
participle: misused; gerund or present participle: misusing
/misˈyo͞oz/
1. use (something) in the wrong way or for the wrong purpose.

i.e. using a PSU intended to power equipment indoors and in fact using it to 
power something outdoors is misuse.

Misuse and ignoring warnings  ...sorry these not synonymous..



From: Richard Nute 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

> Depending on the
> product I could easily see using an indoor only rated
> power supply outdoors as possible misuse.

That depends on your definition of "misuse."

If "misuse" means using the product for something other than its intended use, 
then using the product outdoors is not misuse.  If we use this definition, 
misuse is not predictable as it depends on the user's motives and objectives; 
standing on a chair is misuse of the chair.

If "misuse" means using the product contrary to instructions (indoor use 
symbol), then using the product outdoors is misuse.

Not following instructions, I assert, is a fault of a behavioral safeguard.  
Using the product outdoors is a single (behavioral) fault condition; a second 
(physical) fault could lead to an injury.

I use the first definition.


Best regards,
Rich

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NOTE: This e-mail (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential and/or 
protected by legal privilege. Any unauthorized review, use, copy, disclosure or 
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e-mail. Mitel does not accept any liability for breach of security, error or 
virus that may result from the transmission of this message.

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Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

[Brian O'Connell]

The concept of 'forseeable misuse' as part of RA at least appears, to a 
reasonable engineer, to be logical construct for evaluating safeguards. But 
there is no veracity for a mathematical model that would enable the assignment 
of a "probability" figure that represents a product's safety integrity for 
abnormal operating conditions (as defined by a standard or derived from a 
forseeable misuse) or any other failure modes.

Fault-tree analysis can indicate how your product may make a mess. But no 
repeatable numbers.
RM per 14971/31000 attempts to identify and define 'uncertainty', but are 
really just process codification with no useful math models.
PRA, which uses fault trees, assumes a simplistic linear failure sequence to 
assign a risk 'probability', so cannot be legitimately used in (in my little 
mind) to add any data to a bayesian analysis.
Time-series fitting, distribution fitting, correlation fitting, and all of the 
other wonderful  number grinders that reliability people like to pour into a 
spreadsheet to do RA have never provided me with any useful or predictive 
correlation that could be compared what is seen in databases filled with years 
of root-cause RMA reports.

This returns to empiricism, and mathematical models that are verifiable and 
predictive. For my corner of the desert, deep HALT + root-cause + SR332 + 
NSWC07 + Bayes  have been somewhat useable, mostly where the product does not 
have sufficient field data to do LDA or Weibull. Otherwise, we have no way of 
reliably predicting (at least until a product recall must be issued) the 
long-term effectiveness of implemented safeguards.

Brian


-Original Message-
From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 7:37 AM
To: Brian O'Connell; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

The Machinery Directive requires consideration of possible misuse as part of 
the risk assessment.  Depending on the product I could easily see using an 
indoor only rated power supply outdoors as possible misuse.  In that case 
depending on the risk/hazard it could mean using an outdoor rated power supply 
or not or looking closer at the consequences of using a particular indoor only 
rated supply outdoors.   I could see this extending to non-machinery.

-Dave

-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

The current *style* is the Risk Assessment. The RA is an assumed probability. 
Dunno, as much of the supposed 'probability' for failure does not map well with 
resultant MTBF numbers. The sample space is not the probability space, but 
probability space does contain a sample space. American engineers are taught 
statistics without adequate measure theory; that is, this side of the pond uses 
stuff based on combinatorics - not always conducive to the existing finite 
sample space.

The measure of the result of safeguards, while codified by many medical 
equipment standards, does not necessarily provide a repeatable model for 
revealing the effectiveness of safeguards. Data from observations (Type Tests?) 
has problems (other than the obvious mundane calculations for measurement 
uncertainty) because the 'experiments' (aka, the tests), are not designed to be 
randomized experiments. From a simplistic working engineer's POV, there should 
never be a pathological integral in this stuff.

By my feeble understanding, we have a mathematical process that strives for a 
countable infinite, in order to explain why a coin may never or continually 
comes up heads. A non-countable infinite makes for unclean and intractable 
theoretical basis. While there are textbooks that provide measure theory for 
use in probability theory, the usage is scoped for graduate-level math geeks, 
and it seems to be all sigma algebra.

There are some engineering processes (HALT,HASS,SR332) that are using bayesian 
analysis, but the initial calculation of both posteriors and a priori to remove 
uncertainty for electrical equipment failures is difficult for mortals. But 
once you build your database with good RMA (failure data) and ATP (production 
data), the dynamic updates yields very tangible and useable results. But how do 
we get to a legit RA for our new box about to go to production? Not trivial for 
power conversion equipment, at least.

So how safe is it to sit at your computer and read this? Probably about 0.1, or 
more, or less...

Brian
 

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 3:10 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

OTOH, apart from instructions and symbols, how else can manufacturers begin to 
address the issue of “risk reduction” other than  making the products 
“absolutely safe”?

Most products 

Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

[Richard Nute]

> Depending on the
> product I could easily see using an indoor only rated
> power supply outdoors as possible misuse.  

That depends on your definition of "misuse."

If "misuse" means using the product for something other than its intended use, 
then using the product outdoors is not misuse.  If we use this definition, 
misuse is not predictable as it depends on the user's motives and objectives; 
standing on a chair is misuse of the chair.

If "misuse" means using the product contrary to instructions (indoor use 
symbol), then using the product outdoors is misuse.

Not following instructions, I assert, is a fault of a behavioral safeguard.  
Using the product outdoors is a single (behavioral) fault condition; a second 
(physical) fault could lead to an injury.

I use the first definition.


Best regards,
Rich

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

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Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

[McDiarmid, Ralph]

I must admit I didn't understand any of that, other than references to 
MTBF and HALT.  It just seems to me that RA is akin to FMEA and FTA (Fault 
Tree Analysis) efforts, namely, it's just guess work.  There is no way to 
come up with a number that can relied on, since there are too many 
unknowns, and the those variables which are known have a large 
uncertainty.

Thoughts?
.
Ralph McDiarmid
Compliance Engineering
Residential/Commercial
Solar Business
Schneider Electric

3700 Gilmore Way
Burnaby
BC
Canada





From:
"Brian O'Connell" 
To:
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG, 
Date:
04/05/2016 05:37 PM
Subject:
Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply



The current *style* is the Risk Assessment. The RA is an assumed 
probability. Dunno, as much of the supposed 'probability' for failure does 
not map well with resultant MTBF numbers. The sample space is not the 
probability space, but probability space does contain a sample space. 
American engineers are taught statistics without adequate measure theory; 
that is, this side of the pond uses stuff based on combinatorics - not 
always conducive to the existing finite sample space.

The measure of the result of safeguards, while codified by many medical 
equipment standards, does not necessarily provide a repeatable model for 
revealing the effectiveness of safeguards. Data from observations (Type 
Tests?) has problems (other than the obvious mundane calculations for 
measurement uncertainty) because the 'experiments' (aka, the tests), are 
not designed to be randomized experiments. From a simplistic working 
engineer's POV, there should never be a pathological integral in this 
stuff.

By my feeble understanding, we have a mathematical process that strives 
for a countable infinite, in order to explain why a coin may never or 
continually comes up heads. A non-countable infinite makes for unclean and 
intractable theoretical basis. While there are textbooks that provide 
measure theory for use in probability theory, the usage is scoped for 
graduate-level math geeks, and it seems to be all sigma algebra.

There are some engineering processes (HALT,HASS,SR332) that are using 
bayesian analysis, but the initial calculation of both posteriors and a 
priori to remove uncertainty for electrical equipment failures is 
difficult for mortals. But once you build your database with good RMA 
(failure data) and ATP (production data), the dynamic updates yields very 
tangible and useable results. But how do we get to a legit RA for our new 
box about to go to production? Not trivial for power conversion equipment, 
at least.

So how safe is it to sit at your computer and read this? Probably about 
0.1, or more, or less...

Brian
 

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 3:10 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

OTOH, apart from instructions and symbols, how else can manufacturers 
begin to address the issue of “risk reduction” other than  making the 
products “absolutely safe”?

Most products are absolutely safe for all practical purposes.  As you read 
this, you are safe.  And, you are acting like you are absolutely safe; 
that is, you are taking no precautions against an injury.  

Most safety requires two independent safeguards.  Safeguards are 
considered reliable for the lifetime of the product.  So, for an injury to 
occur, you have the probability of failure of two safeguards, both of 
which are supposed to be reliable for the product lifetime.  
Multiplication of the two probabilities yields an extremely small number 
which means the product is absolutely safe for two lifetimes.  

Driving across town involves much higher probabilities of safeguard 
(driver behavior) failure than typical product safeguard failures.  Most 
of us recognize that our safety and that of others depends on our behavior 
(adherence to driving rules).  I would not use the term “absolute safety” 
to describe the activity of driving across town.

Best regards,
Rich

Ps:  This should trigger much discussion!

-

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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in 
well-used formats), large files, etc.

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[PSES] Job Posting

[Gary Swale]

Safety and Compliance Engineer job opening. Position located in Perry, OK.

Contact me at gary.sw...@ditchwitch.com if 
interested.

Gary L. Swale
Charles Machine Works
Senior Product Safety & Compliance Engineer


This email and any files transmitted with it from The Charles Machine Works, 
Inc. are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error 
please notify the sender. Our company accepts no liability for the contents of 
this email, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the 
information provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in 
writing. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are 
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the 
company. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for 
the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused 
by any virus transmitted by this email.

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] Job Opening

[Gary Swale]

Safety and Compliance Engineer job opening. Position located in Perry, OK.

Contact me at gary.sw...@ditchwitch.com if 
interested.

Gary L. Swale
Charles Machine Works
Senior Product Safety & Compliance Engineer

This email and any files transmitted with it from The Charles Machine Works, 
Inc. are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error 
please notify the sender. Our company accepts no liability for the contents of 
this email, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the 
information provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in 
writing. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are 
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the 
company. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for 
the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused 
by any virus transmitted by this email.

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

The Machinery Directive requires consideration of possible misuse as part of 
the risk assessment.  Depending on the product I could easily see using an 
indoor only rated power supply outdoors as possible misuse.  In that case 
depending on the risk/hazard it could mean using an outdoor rated power supply 
or not or looking closer at the consequences of using a particular indoor only 
rated supply outdoors.   I could see this extending to non-machinery.

-Dave

-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 8:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

The current *style* is the Risk Assessment. The RA is an assumed probability. 
Dunno, as much of the supposed 'probability' for failure does not map well with 
resultant MTBF numbers. The sample space is not the probability space, but 
probability space does contain a sample space. American engineers are taught 
statistics without adequate measure theory; that is, this side of the pond uses 
stuff based on combinatorics - not always conducive to the existing finite 
sample space.

The measure of the result of safeguards, while codified by many medical 
equipment standards, does not necessarily provide a repeatable model for 
revealing the effectiveness of safeguards. Data from observations (Type Tests?) 
has problems (other than the obvious mundane calculations for measurement 
uncertainty) because the 'experiments' (aka, the tests), are not designed to be 
randomized experiments. From a simplistic working engineer's POV, there should 
never be a pathological integral in this stuff.

By my feeble understanding, we have a mathematical process that strives for a 
countable infinite, in order to explain why a coin may never or continually 
comes up heads. A non-countable infinite makes for unclean and intractable 
theoretical basis. While there are textbooks that provide measure theory for 
use in probability theory, the usage is scoped for graduate-level math geeks, 
and it seems to be all sigma algebra.

There are some engineering processes (HALT,HASS,SR332) that are using bayesian 
analysis, but the initial calculation of both posteriors and a priori to remove 
uncertainty for electrical equipment failures is difficult for mortals. But 
once you build your database with good RMA (failure data) and ATP (production 
data), the dynamic updates yields very tangible and useable results. But how do 
we get to a legit RA for our new box about to go to production? Not trivial for 
power conversion equipment, at least.

So how safe is it to sit at your computer and read this? Probably about 0.1, or 
more, or less...

Brian
 

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 3:10 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply

OTOH, apart from instructions and symbols, how else can manufacturers begin to 
address the issue of “risk reduction” other than  making the products 
“absolutely safe”?

Most products are absolutely safe for all practical purposes.  As you read 
this, you are safe.  And, you are acting like you are absolutely safe; that is, 
you are taking no precautions against an injury.  

Most safety requires two independent safeguards.  Safeguards are considered 
reliable for the lifetime of the product.  So, for an injury to occur, you have 
the probability of failure of two safeguards, both of which are supposed to be 
reliable for the product lifetime.  Multiplication of the two probabilities 
yields an extremely small number which means the product is absolutely safe for 
two lifetimes.  

Driving across town involves much higher probabilities of safeguard (driver 
behavior) failure than typical product safeguard failures.  Most of us 
recognize that our safety and that of others depends on our behavior (adherence 
to driving rules).  I would not use the term “absolute safety” to describe the 
activity of driving across town.

Best regards,
Rich

Ps:  This should trigger much discussion!

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  

Re: [PSES] Desktop Power Supplies

[Rodney Davis]

An external Class B PSU is identified under the verification process and the 
marking for the PSU is required.

Section 15.101 (a)
Class B external switching power supplies   Verification.


I see many supplies with the FCC logo however this is a misused as the FCC logo 
is limited to products approved under the DoC process, All other devices shall 
bear the statement.


Section 15.19 (5) (b)

 Products subject to authorization under a Declaration of Conformity shall be 
labelled as follows:

(1) The label shall be located in a conspicuous location on the device and 
shall contain the unique identification described in §2.1074 of this chapter 
and the following logo:

(i) If the product is authorized based on testing of the product or system; or

[eCFR graphic er09de03.000.gif]


on the other hand if sold with the system, then FCC states peripherals attached 
by cable do not need to be marked, and marking on the main unit is sufficient.


Section 15.19 (4)

Where a device is constructed in two or more sections connected by wires and 
marketed together, the statement specified under paragraph (a) of this section 
is required to be affixed only to the main control unit.


The marking requirements of the PSU is really dependent on how it is marketed 
and placed on the market


Comments suggestion welcomed.
Rodney Davis




From: Mark Bailey 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 5:51 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Desktop Power Supplies

Dear group,

a quick question regarding selling desktop power supplies into the USA as part 
of a system.

If I buy an off the shelf desktop PSU to power my product (unintentional 
radiator) to sell into the USA does the desktop PSU need to be marked with the 
FCC logo or verification wording?

As part of the system compliance testing the desktop PSU will be included in 
the desktop test set-up for radiated emissions and we'll do AC port conducted 
emissions.testing.

Assuming the system passes I can then put the appropriate mark/ wording on my 
product but am I also required to put the same mark/ wording on the PSU or as 
the PSU will only ship with the end product/ system do I mark my part of the 
system and use my emissions test reports (that will list the desktop PSU) to 
demonstrate that the desktop PSU used with my product meets the FCC 
requirements?

Marking the off the shelf desktop PSU seems like a bad idea to me, but it also 
seems odd to ship the PSU with no EMC marking.
Best regards

--
Mark Bailey
Approvals Engineer

CRFS Limited

mbai...@crfs.com
www.crfs.com


-


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For 

Re: [PSES] EC Blue Guide

[Crane, Lauren]

Thank you, Nick!

Lauren Crane
KLA-Tencor

From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 3:29 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EC Blue Guide

A new edition of the Commission’s Blue Guide has been published:

http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/16210

Nick.
-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Re: [PSES] EC Blue Guide

[Nagel, Michael (Artesyn)]

Both URLs work for me. Thanks for spreading the news.

Best regards,
Michael

Michael Nagel | Senior Staff EMC Test Engineer, Test Engineering | Embedded 
Computing

Artesyn Embedded Technologies | Lilienthalstrasse 17-19 | 85579 Neubiberg, 
Deutschland
T +49 (0)89 9608 2377 | F +49 (0)89 9608 2376
michael.na...@artesyn.com
www.artesyn.com

Artesyn Embedded Technologies GmbH | Lilienthalstr. 17-19 | D-85579 Neubiberg
Sitz: Neubiberg /Landkreis München | Amtsgericht München, HRB 171431 | 
Geschäftsführer: Kai Holz | VAT/Ust.-ID DE 127472241

From: Bill Stumpf [mailto:bstu...@dlsemc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 14:33
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EC Blue Guide

Unfortunately, even though Nick has provided the correct link it does not work. 
 Try this one instead: http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/16210?locale=en



Bill Stumpf - Lab / Technical Manager
D.L.S. Electronic Systems, Inc.
166 South Carter Street
Genoa City WI 53128
Ph: 262-279-0210




From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 3:29 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EC Blue Guide

A new edition of the Commission’s Blue Guide has been published:

http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/16210

Nick.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
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Scott Douglas >
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher >
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-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher >
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
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Re: [PSES] EC Blue Guide

[Bill Stumpf]

Unfortunately, even though Nick has provided the correct link it does not work. 
 Try this one instead: http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/16210?locale=en



Bill Stumpf - Lab / Technical Manager
D.L.S. Electronic Systems, Inc.
166 South Carter Street
Genoa City WI 53128
Ph: 262-279-0210




From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 3:29 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EC Blue Guide

A new edition of the Commission’s Blue Guide has been published:

http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/16210

Nick.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
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-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] Desktop Power Supplies

[Mark Bailey]

Dear group,

a quick question regarding selling desktop power supplies into the USA as
part of a system.

If I buy an off the shelf desktop PSU to power my product (unintentional
radiator) to sell into the USA does the desktop PSU need to be marked with
the FCC logo or verification wording?

As part of the system compliance testing the desktop PSU will be included
in the desktop test set-up for radiated emissions and we'll do AC port
conducted emissions.testing.

Assuming the system passes I can then put the appropriate mark/ wording on
my product but am I also required to put the same mark/ wording on the PSU
or as the PSU will only ship with the end product/ system do I mark my part
of the system and use my emissions test reports (that will list the desktop
PSU) to demonstrate that the desktop PSU used with my product meets the FCC
requirements?

Marking the off the shelf desktop PSU seems like a bad idea to me, but it
also seems odd to ship the PSU with no EMC marking.
Best regards

-- 
*Mark Bailey*
Approvals Engineer

*CRFS Limited*

mbai...@crfs.com
www.crfs.com

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
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[PSES] EC Blue Guide

[Nick Williams]

A new edition of the Commission’s Blue Guide has been published:

http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/16210 


Nick. 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
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