Re: [PSES] safety test equipment

[John Allen]

Brian

 

Commiserations on yourself "no longer needed"  (really?) - but I hope/am
sure that you will soon find a more-realistic company with a rewarding
position J.

 

John E Allen

W. London, UK

 

PS: I can say, with relative certainty, that before retiring a few years
ago, I  had "been there, done that" a few more times than I rather care to
remember L.

-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: 09 October 2018 18:58
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] safety test equipment

 

Employer is focusing on a smaller segment of the power industry. Myself and
test equipment no longer needed are being eliminated.

 

Following list of safety test equipment is free to good home. Your company
provides shipping. And you must agree to incorporate the various Klingon
rites of ascension into your corporate ISO9001 engineering processes.

 

ITB-01 500gm steel ball

SET - 50 sharp edge tester

TC-3 tape kit

UL Articulate Probe

EDD OC-20 comparator

EDD CC-23 gage set

 

Brian

 

-



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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


 

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-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] safety test equipment

[Brian O'Connell]

Employer is focusing on a smaller segment of the power industry. Myself and 
test equipment no longer needed are being eliminated.

Following list of safety test equipment is free to good home. Your company 
provides shipping. And you must agree to incorporate the various Klingon rites 
of ascension into your corporate ISO9001 engineering processes.

ITB-01 500gm steel ball
SET - 50 sharp edge tester
TC-3 tape kit
UL Articulate Probe
EDD OC-20 comparator
EDD CC-23 gage set

Brian

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

[Schmidt, Mark]

Hmmm it does exist, however their definition I suspect is somewhat 
inappropriate.

I guess if you consider self-declaration a form of certification, then yes I 
would agree with you. Too bad OSHA and other globally recognized bodies do not 
accept products that I deem “CERTIFIED” an acceptable means of diligence. They 
usually will only accept “official documents”. Typically through an accredited 
laboratory or certified body.
It is possible that  I am just bad at convincing the authorities that when I 
say my products are certified they need to take me at my word.

cer·ti·fi·ca·tion
the action or process of providing someone or something with an “official 
document” attesting to a status or level of achievement.

Thank you.

From: lauren.cr...@us.tel.com [mailto:lauren.cr...@us.tel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 10:51 AM
To: Schmidt, Mark; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

Just FYI regarding “certified”. A Laser is a type of Electronic Product under 
21CFR. All Electronic Products for which there is an applicable standard in 
21CFR subpart J (such as lasers) must be certified. This is essentially an act 
of self-declaration.

TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS
CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
SUBCHAPTER J--RADIOLOGICAL HEALTH
PART 1010 -- PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR ELECTRONIC PRODUCTS: GENERAL
Subpart A--General Provisions
Sec. 1010.2 Certification.
(a) Every manufacturer of an electronic product for which an applicable 
standard is in
effect under this subchapter shall furnish to the dealer or distributor, at the 
time of
delivery of such product, the certification that such product conforms to all 
applicable
standards under this subchapter.
(b) The certification shall be in the form of a label or tag permanently 
affixed to or
inscribed on such product so as to be legible and readily accessible to view 
when the
product is fully assembled for use, unless the applicable standard prescribes 
some other
manner of certification. All such labels or tags shall be in the English 
language.
(c) Such certification shall be based upon a test, in accordance with the 
standard, of the
individual article to which it is attached or upon a testing program which is 
in accordance
with good manufacturing practices. The Director, Center for Devices and 
Radiological Health
may disapprove such a testing program on the grounds that it does not assure 
the adequacy of
safeguards against hazardous electronic product radiation or that it does not 
assure that
electronic products comply with the standards prescribed under this subchapter.
(d) In the case of products for which it is not feasible to certify in 
accordance with
paragraph (b) of this section, upon application by the manufacturer, the 
Director, Center for
Devices and Radiological Health may approve an alternate means by which such 
certification
may be provided.

From: Schmidt, Mark 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 8:35 AM
To: TEH EHS Crane, Lauren ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

It’s been a while since I had to deal with this stuff but ask the manufacturer 
for the CDRH Accession Number, then conduct a search for it to assure its 
validity. This typically means that all the proper steps and paperwork were 
filed with the CDRH by the original manufacturer. It does not mean its 
compliant or approved through the CDRH, just that the claims and appropriate 
reports/data has been submitted to the CDRH. The CDRH accession number just 
indicates that they received the data that the manufacturer submitted. It is 
basically the laser manufacturer attestation that the claims made are in good 
faith based on this submitted data.
So, if you are not modifying anything and just using the laser as is, you are 
minimizing risk based on original manufacturer data. A diligent/reputable 
manufacturer should have a report that they are willing to share or minimally 
the calculation they made to classify the laser based on IEC60825-1. The CDRH 
and IEC have similar classifications.
The laser manufacturer should also be auditing the output power on these 
devices you could ask them for their audit procedure for this (a requirement of 
21CFR1040.10/11 . Proper labelling on the device is also critical along with 
your warning/caution statement in the manual.
The word “certified” does not exist in the CDRH laser world (that I am aware 
of).
Be very careful of your laser selection there is a lot of deception out there 
and many third party labs/NRTL’s will want (require) to test before they List 
the main device incorporating the laser in question. Unless of course you have 
worked with your reputable laser manufacturer and supplied the NRTL with the 
appropriate documents providing the required evidence that the laser in 
question has validity and is appropriately classified. If not be prepared to 

Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

[Schmidt, Mark]

It's been a while since I had to deal with this stuff but ask the manufacturer 
for the CDRH Accession Number, then conduct a search for it to assure its 
validity. This typically means that all the proper steps and paperwork were 
filed with the CDRH by the original manufacturer. It does not mean its 
compliant or approved through the CDRH, just that the claims and appropriate 
reports/data has been submitted to the CDRH. The CDRH accession number just 
indicates that they received the data that the manufacturer submitted. It is 
basically the laser manufacturer attestation that the claims made are in good 
faith based on this submitted data.
So, if you are not modifying anything and just using the laser as is, you are 
minimizing risk based on original manufacturer data. A diligent/reputable 
manufacturer should have a report that they are willing to share or minimally 
the calculation they made to classify the laser based on IEC60825-1. The CDRH 
and IEC have similar classifications.
The laser manufacturer should also be auditing the output power on these 
devices you could ask them for their audit procedure for this (a requirement of 
21CFR1040.10/11 . Proper labelling on the device is also critical along with 
your warning/caution statement in the manual.
The word "certified" does not exist in the CDRH laser world (that I am aware 
of).
Be very careful of your laser selection there is a lot of deception out there 
and many third party labs/NRTL's will want (require) to test before they List 
the main device incorporating the laser in question. Unless of course you have 
worked with your reputable laser manufacturer and supplied the NRTL with the 
appropriate documents providing the required evidence that the laser in 
question has validity and is appropriately classified. If not be prepared to 
add time and money to your program for addition testing.

Mark

From: Lauren Crane [mailto:lauren.cr...@us.tel.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 4:04 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser 
product?

I've gotten some direct replies such that I think some additional perspective 
might be helpful.

Correct application of the US laser regs requires some significant attention to 
fine points. Particularly in light of certified* laser products available 'off 
the shelf' that are incorporated into another product to form a new laser 
product. In addition to the laser 'standard' (21CFR1040.10/11) there have been 
many Laser Notices published by FDA/CDRH that provide what are effectively 
exemptions (scenarios to which they "will not object"). There are particularly 
many reliefs for inherently Class I laser products (which may contain higher 
classes of embedded lasers) which are themselves then embedded in another 
product. Consider the Class III laser in a Class I DVD drive incorporated into 
a computer - (which itself is interpreted as an non-classified laser product, 
but not completely out of scope since some of the administrative obligations 
remain).

So the case I am puzzling over is an appropriately certified* Class II laser 
product (the scanner), essentially being bundled with an industrial machine, 
but otherwise not modified. As I've said, my first reaction is that a new laser 
product is being manufactured But perhaps there are some, for example, 
laser notice fine points I am not recalling.

*certified in this context means self-declared as compliant to the US Federal 
Laser 'Standard'... it is not related to any sort of electrical safety 
certifications.

So if anyone has walked this road before, thanks in advance for thoughts and 
guidance, particularly if you think I've got it wrong.

Regards,
Lauren Crane
Tokyo Electron



From: Nyffenegger, Dave 
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 12:08 PM
To: TEH EHS Crane, Lauren ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

Yes, I think it's an appropriate question for this forum.

We've followed the CDRH requirements for our products containing class IV 
lasers.  But now that you raise the question we've not followed the CDRH 
requirements for our products that contain only Class I and II lasers and after 
a quick scan of 21 CFR 1040.10 it appears we should be.

-Dave

From: Lauren Crane [mailto:lauren.cr...@us.tel.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 11:49 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

I'm not sure this is the correct forum for this question

Does incorporating a barcode scanner (that happens to be a class II laser 
product) into a piece of industrial machinery (e.g., for the purpose of reading 
identification tags on work pieces) that otherwise does not contain a laser 
result in a new, reportable laser product under US CDRH requirements?

I'm leaning towards 'yes', but I cannot find much guidance on the 

Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

[Jim Hulbert]

We've had no problem getting an NRTL to approve a UL-listed, FDA/CDRH compliant 
class 2 laser product in our end system.  No additional testing was required.

Jim Hulbert

From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 9:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser 
product?

CAUTION: THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SOURCE. Internet links, office 
documents or other attachments may contain viruses. Do not click on a link, 
open or enable any file unless you trust the sender.
It would seem if the argument holds that a new product is not being created 
when incorporating a laser then the supplier of the system is still subject to 
the CDRH requirements for Dealer and Distributor Records.  There's an exception 
if the retail price is under $50.  That's probably 1973 dollars that's never 
been updated.

-Dave

From: Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 10:25 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser 
product?

Lauren,

My question is - is the laser scanner permanently attached/connected (built-in) 
to the larger product? If it is, then the combination is probably a new 
product. But if all you do is connect a hand held scanner, for example, and 
that connection is detachable (USB or RS-232 or some such connector) then I 
submit the laser scanner is stand-alone and no further laser product is 
created. Would not even need to be a hand-help scanner either. A desk top  
scanner that is user unpluggable is still a separate stand-alone product with 
its own certifications.

Regards,
Scott

On 10/8/2018 1:03 PM, Lauren Crane wrote:
I've gotten some direct replies such that I think some additional perspective 
might be helpful.

Correct application of the US laser regs requires some significant attention to 
fine points. Particularly in light of certified* laser products available 'off 
the shelf' that are incorporated into another product to form a new laser 
product. In addition to the laser 'standard' (21CFR1040.10/11) there have been 
many Laser Notices published by FDA/CDRH that provide what are effectively 
exemptions (scenarios to which they "will not object"). There are particularly 
many reliefs for inherently Class I laser products (which may contain higher 
classes of embedded lasers) which are themselves then embedded in another 
product. Consider the Class III laser in a Class I DVD drive incorporated into 
a computer - (which itself is interpreted as an non-classified laser product, 
but not completely out of scope since some of the administrative obligations 
remain).

So the case I am puzzling over is an appropriately certified* Class II laser 
product (the scanner), essentially being bundled with an industrial machine, 
but otherwise not modified. As I've said, my first reaction is that a new laser 
product is being manufactured But perhaps there are some, for example, 
laser notice fine points I am not recalling.

*certified in this context means self-declared as compliant to the US Federal 
Laser 'Standard'... it is not related to any sort of electrical safety 
certifications.

So if anyone has walked this road before, thanks in advance for thoughts and 
guidance, particularly if you think I've got it wrong.

Regards,
Lauren Crane
Tokyo Electron



From: Nyffenegger, Dave 

Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 12:08 PM
To: TEH EHS Crane, Lauren 
; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

Yes, I think it's an appropriate question for this forum.

We've followed the CDRH requirements for our products containing class IV 
lasers.  But now that you raise the question we've not followed the CDRH 
requirements for our products that contain only Class I and II lasers and after 
a quick scan of 21 CFR 1040.10 it appears we should be.

-Dave

From: Lauren Crane [mailto:lauren.cr...@us.tel.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 11:49 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

I'm not sure this is the correct forum for this question

Does incorporating a barcode scanner (that happens to be a class II laser 
product) into a piece of industrial machinery (e.g., for the purpose of reading 
identification tags on work pieces) that otherwise does not contain a laser 
result in a new, reportable laser product under US CDRH requirements?

I'm leaning towards 'yes', but I cannot find much guidance on the issue.

Regards,
Lauren Crane
Tokyo Electron

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
dis

Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

[Lauren Crane]

Just FYI regarding "certified". A Laser is a type of Electronic Product under 
21CFR. All Electronic Products for which there is an applicable standard in 
21CFR subpart J (such as lasers) must be certified. This is essentially an act 
of self-declaration.

TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS
CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
SUBCHAPTER J--RADIOLOGICAL HEALTH
PART 1010 -- PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR ELECTRONIC PRODUCTS: GENERAL
Subpart A--General Provisions
Sec. 1010.2 Certification.
(a) Every manufacturer of an electronic product for which an applicable 
standard is in
effect under this subchapter shall furnish to the dealer or distributor, at the 
time of
delivery of such product, the certification that such product conforms to all 
applicable
standards under this subchapter.
(b) The certification shall be in the form of a label or tag permanently 
affixed to or
inscribed on such product so as to be legible and readily accessible to view 
when the
product is fully assembled for use, unless the applicable standard prescribes 
some other
manner of certification. All such labels or tags shall be in the English 
language.
(c) Such certification shall be based upon a test, in accordance with the 
standard, of the
individual article to which it is attached or upon a testing program which is 
in accordance
with good manufacturing practices. The Director, Center for Devices and 
Radiological Health
may disapprove such a testing program on the grounds that it does not assure 
the adequacy of
safeguards against hazardous electronic product radiation or that it does not 
assure that
electronic products comply with the standards prescribed under this subchapter.
(d) In the case of products for which it is not feasible to certify in 
accordance with
paragraph (b) of this section, upon application by the manufacturer, the 
Director, Center for
Devices and Radiological Health may approve an alternate means by which such 
certification
may be provided.

From: Schmidt, Mark 
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 8:35 AM
To: TEH EHS Crane, Lauren ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

It's been a while since I had to deal with this stuff but ask the manufacturer 
for the CDRH Accession Number, then conduct a search for it to assure its 
validity. This typically means that all the proper steps and paperwork were 
filed with the CDRH by the original manufacturer. It does not mean its 
compliant or approved through the CDRH, just that the claims and appropriate 
reports/data has been submitted to the CDRH. The CDRH accession number just 
indicates that they received the data that the manufacturer submitted. It is 
basically the laser manufacturer attestation that the claims made are in good 
faith based on this submitted data.
So, if you are not modifying anything and just using the laser as is, you are 
minimizing risk based on original manufacturer data. A diligent/reputable 
manufacturer should have a report that they are willing to share or minimally 
the calculation they made to classify the laser based on IEC60825-1. The CDRH 
and IEC have similar classifications.
The laser manufacturer should also be auditing the output power on these 
devices you could ask them for their audit procedure for this (a requirement of 
21CFR1040.10/11 . Proper labelling on the device is also critical along with 
your warning/caution statement in the manual.
The word "certified" does not exist in the CDRH laser world (that I am aware 
of).
Be very careful of your laser selection there is a lot of deception out there 
and many third party labs/NRTL's will want (require) to test before they List 
the main device incorporating the laser in question. Unless of course you have 
worked with your reputable laser manufacturer and supplied the NRTL with the 
appropriate documents providing the required evidence that the laser in 
question has validity and is appropriately classified. If not be prepared to 
add time and money to your program for addition testing.

Mark

From: Lauren Crane [mailto:lauren.cr...@us.tel.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 4:04 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser 
product?

I've gotten some direct replies such that I think some additional perspective 
might be helpful.

Correct application of the US laser regs requires some significant attention to 
fine points. Particularly in light of certified* laser products available 'off 
the shelf' that are incorporated into another product to form a new laser 
product. In addition to the laser 'standard' (21CFR1040.10/11) there have been 
many Laser Notices published by FDA/CDRH that provide what are effectively 
exemptions (scenarios to which they "will not object"). There are particularly 
many reliefs for inherently Class I laser products (which may contain higher 
classes of

Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

It would seem if the argument holds that a new product is not being created 
when incorporating a laser then the supplier of the system is still subject to 
the CDRH requirements for Dealer and Distributor Records.  There's an exception 
if the retail price is under $50.  That's probably 1973 dollars that's never 
been updated.

-Dave

From: Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 10:25 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser 
product?

Lauren,

My question is - is the laser scanner permanently attached/connected (built-in) 
to the larger product? If it is, then the combination is probably a new 
product. But if all you do is connect a hand held scanner, for example, and 
that connection is detachable (USB or RS-232 or some such connector) then I 
submit the laser scanner is stand-alone and no further laser product is 
created. Would not even need to be a hand-help scanner either. A desk top  
scanner that is user unpluggable is still a separate stand-alone product with 
its own certifications.

Regards,
Scott


On 10/8/2018 1:03 PM, Lauren Crane wrote:
I've gotten some direct replies such that I think some additional perspective 
might be helpful.

Correct application of the US laser regs requires some significant attention to 
fine points. Particularly in light of certified* laser products available 'off 
the shelf' that are incorporated into another product to form a new laser 
product. In addition to the laser 'standard' (21CFR1040.10/11) there have been 
many Laser Notices published by FDA/CDRH that provide what are effectively 
exemptions (scenarios to which they "will not object"). There are particularly 
many reliefs for inherently Class I laser products (which may contain higher 
classes of embedded lasers) which are themselves then embedded in another 
product. Consider the Class III laser in a Class I DVD drive incorporated into 
a computer - (which itself is interpreted as an non-classified laser product, 
but not completely out of scope since some of the administrative obligations 
remain).

So the case I am puzzling over is an appropriately certified* Class II laser 
product (the scanner), essentially being bundled with an industrial machine, 
but otherwise not modified. As I've said, my first reaction is that a new laser 
product is being manufactured But perhaps there are some, for example, 
laser notice fine points I am not recalling.

*certified in this context means self-declared as compliant to the US Federal 
Laser 'Standard'... it is not related to any sort of electrical safety 
certifications.

So if anyone has walked this road before, thanks in advance for thoughts and 
guidance, particularly if you think I've got it wrong.

Regards,
Lauren Crane
Tokyo Electron



From: Nyffenegger, Dave 

Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 12:08 PM
To: TEH EHS Crane, Lauren 
; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

Yes, I think it's an appropriate question for this forum.

We've followed the CDRH requirements for our products containing class IV 
lasers.  But now that you raise the question we've not followed the CDRH 
requirements for our products that contain only Class I and II lasers and after 
a quick scan of 21 CFR 1040.10 it appears we should be.

-Dave

From: Lauren Crane [mailto:lauren.cr...@us.tel.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 11:49 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Does incorporated barcode scanner result in a new laser product?

I'm not sure this is the correct forum for this question

Does incorporating a barcode scanner (that happens to be a class II laser 
product) into a piece of industrial machinery (e.g., for the purpose of reading 
identification tags on work pieces) that otherwise does not contain a laser 
result in a new, reportable laser product under US CDRH requirements?

I'm leaning towards 'yes', but I cannot find much guidance on the issue.

Regards,
Lauren Crane
Tokyo Electron

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administ