[PSES] Procedure to move heavy 19" rack test equipment into EMI Chambers

[Richard Jones]

Hi

For those running EMI Labs was wondering what procedures you use to move
Test Racks in and out of EMI Chambers,
We use custom made ramps, which we put over the door threshold, aligning
the front wheels on the ramp, then pushing the unit up and over into the
chamber.

Items which seem important:

   1. Wheel Size and base dimension
   2. Swivel wheels not aligned with ramp ( Most Test racks have swivel
   wheels fitted at the front)
   3. Communication between team members to move the rack
   4. Custom Alloy ramp made from  1/4" checker plate causing a lip where
   it touch's the floor
   5. Equipment with handles in rack placed near the top, (operator may try
   to use to move test rack)
   6. Poor center of gravity (equipment position for ergonomics)

Some of our 19" test racks are quite heavy, lightning generators at 400lbs
and other test racks such as amplifiers up to 650lbs
These are commercial units and I believe met safety requirements when
purchased.

My questions are:

What procedures/solutions do you have to move equipment and avoid a
tipping situation?

>From a standard point of view Is there any direction on Wheel Size, Wheel
base, height weight and Ramp Inclination and run off which I could use to
support possible improvements?

Thanks

Rich

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[PSES] Japan PSE Labeling

[Stultz, Mark]

Anyone know where to find vector files (dxf, ai, pdf, et cetera) for the PSE 
mark for Japan?  Or dimension requirements?

Thanks,

[cid:image001.png@01D5F87E.2E1AE560]


Mark Stultz
10175 Philipp Parkway
Senior Mechanical Development Engineer
Streetsboro, OH 44241
CMSE® - Certified Machinery Safety Expert (TÜV NORD)
330-342-2402
Automated Packaging Systems



[A picture containing vector graphics  Description automatically generated]


autobag.com
SealedAir.com





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Re: [PSES] ESD - Floating metal knob, otherwise grounded equipment

[Paasche, Dieter]

Hi

I had a similar situation.  We ended using the alternative test method, with 
just extending the time between discharges. As per IEC 61000-42 Section 7.4.2.1:

Therefore as an alternative, the following options may be used:
• the time interval between successive discharges shall be extended to the time 
necessary to allow natural decay of the charge from the EUT;

Sincerely,

Dieter Paasche
Senior Product Developer, Electrical
CHRISTIE
809 Wellington Street North
Kitchener, ON N2G 4Y7
Phone: 519-744-8005 ext.7211
www.christiedigital.com

This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is confidential.  Any 
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From: DEREK WALTON <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ESD - Floating metal knob, otherwise grounded equipment

Oh Boy Elliott,

you’ll get a few answers here, lol.

My 10 cents is that when you are not discharging each time you are adding more 
and more charge to the isolated control, that eventually will snap over At that 
point you are discharging quite a significantly higher level of chart than an 
individual event.

I would not call that a realistic “ compliance” test.

OTOH, if it’s possible that may happen in the real world with an operator 
continually adding charge as they use your EUT, you may want to find a way of 
adding some way to bleed charge over a few seconds.

Interesting problem, lets see what others say,

Sincerely,

Derek
LFResearch and 
SSCLabs.com



On Mar 12, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Elliott Martinson 
mailto:elliott.martin...@subzero.com>> wrote:

Hi Everybody,

We’re having some disagreements regarding the 61000-4-2 standard. In the 
section “ungrounded equipment”, it states that ungrounded equipment or part(s) 
of equipment shall have the charge removed in between ESD pulses in order to 
not over-test.
We have a product that only fails pre-compliance when repeated ESD pulses are 
applied to a floating metal knob without removing the charge in between 
(eventually there is a second discharge between the knob and the enclosure). 
The product as a whole is “grounded equipment”.
Since the issue only happens when the charge isn’t removed in between pulses, 
is this a pass or a fail?

Thanks,

Elliott Martinson
Controls Engineer
Sub-Zero/Wolf
elliott.martin...@subzero.com
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 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
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Re: [PSES] ESD - Floating metal knob, otherwise grounded equipment

[DEREK WALTON]

Oh Boy Elliott,

you’ll get a few answers here, lol.

My 10 cents is that when you are not discharging each time you are adding more 
and more charge to the isolated control, that eventually will snap over At that 
point you are discharging quite a significantly higher level of chart than an 
individual event. 

I would not call that a realistic “ compliance” test.

OTOH, if it’s possible that may happen in the real world with an operator 
continually adding charge as they use your EUT, you may want to find a way of 
adding some way to bleed charge over a few seconds.

Interesting problem, lets see what others say,

Sincerely,

Derek
LFResearch and SSCLabs.com


> On Mar 12, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Elliott Martinson 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Everybody,
>  
> We’re having some disagreements regarding the 61000-4-2 standard. In the 
> section “ungrounded equipment”, it states that ungrounded equipment or 
> part(s) of equipment shall have the charge removed in between ESD pulses in 
> order to not over-test.
> We have a product that only fails pre-compliance when repeated ESD pulses are 
> applied to a floating metal knob without removing the charge in between 
> (eventually there is a second discharge between the knob and the enclosure). 
> The product as a whole is “grounded equipment”.
> Since the issue only happens when the charge isn’t removed in between pulses, 
> is this a pass or a fail?
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Elliott Martinson
> Controls Engineer
> Sub-Zero/Wolf
> elliott.martin...@subzero.com -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
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Re: [PSES] ESD - Floating metal knob, otherwise grounded equipment

[John Woodgate]

See 7.2.4.1 of the standard ( my bold text):

Rationale: Ungrounded equipment, or*ungrounded part(s) of equipment,* 
cannot discharge
itself similarly to class I mains-supplied equipment. If the charge is 
not removed before the
next ESD pulse is applied, it is possible that the EUT or part(s) of the 
EUT be stressed up to
twice the intended test voltage. Therefore, this type of equipment or 
equipment parts could be
charged at an unrealistically high charge, by accumulating several ESD 
discharges on the
capacitance of the class II insulation, and then discharge at the 
breakdown voltage of the

insulation with a much higher energy.

Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2020-03-12 15:53, Elliott Martinson wrote:


Hi Everybody,

We’re having some disagreements regarding the 61000-4-2 standard. In 
the section “ungrounded equipment”, it states that ungrounded 
equipment or part(s) of equipment shall have the charge removed in 
between ESD pulses in order to not over-test.


We have a product that only fails pre-compliance when repeated ESD 
pulses are applied to a floating metal knob without removing the 
charge in between (eventually there is a second discharge between the 
knob and the enclosure). The product as a whole is “grounded equipment”.


Since the issue only happens when the charge isn’t removed in between 
pulses, is this a pass or a fail?


Thanks,

Elliott Martinson

Controls Engineer

Sub-Zero/Wolf

elliott.martin...@subzero.com

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[PSES] ESD - Floating metal knob, otherwise grounded equipment

[Elliott Martinson]

Hi Everybody,

We're having some disagreements regarding the 61000-4-2 standard. In the 
section "ungrounded equipment", it states that ungrounded equipment or part(s) 
of equipment shall have the charge removed in between ESD pulses in order to 
not over-test.
We have a product that only fails pre-compliance when repeated ESD pulses are 
applied to a floating metal knob without removing the charge in between 
(eventually there is a second discharge between the knob and the enclosure). 
The product as a whole is "grounded equipment".
Since the issue only happens when the charge isn't removed in between pulses, 
is this a pass or a fail?

Thanks,

Elliott Martinson
Controls Engineer
Sub-Zero/Wolf
elliott.martin...@subzero.com

-

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