Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] EN Standard amendments

[Charlie Blackham]

Scott

The A11 amendments to EN 55032 and 55035 do not make any technical changes to 
the standard, so a test report without them can be used to support a DoC that 
lists them – you should just add a covering comment in your Technical File

As to your point about which version a lab tests against – they should test 
against the version that you ask them to – it’s your responsibility as the 
manufacturer which standard you apply, not the test labs – their responsibility 
is to perform the required tests correctly

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Scott Xe 
Sent: 13 April 2022 16:16
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] EN Standard amendments

Hi Bernd,

Many thanks for your comments.  Can we consider IEC amendment as non-EN 
amendment and it should be applied by non-EU countries.

I have a recent case on a conformity test report that adopts A1 amendment only. 
 However in OJEU it states A11.  There is a risk for the market surveillance to 
challenge the missing A11 amendment.  I am unsure if both A1 and A11 refer to 
the same topic or different one.

In the similar case, the public test house will do the conformity test using 
the latest version of standard.  If OJEU does not or has not adopted the latest 
version of a standard as harmonised standard, it may bring us unnecessary 
frustration about invalid standard applied when we deal with market 
surveillance.  Of course, we can adopt whatever standards apart from harmonised 
standards but need to convene the market surveillance in agreement.

Best regards,

Scott


On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 at 19:17, Dürrer Bernd 
mailto:bernd.duer...@wilo.com>> wrote:
Hi Scott,

all amendments published by CENELEC are applicable. You may check on published 
amendments using the standards search provided by CENELEC (for EN 55032 
https://standards.cencenelec.eu/dyn/www/f?p=205:105:0:). Typically, an 
amendment A11 is published by CENELEC to establish the correspondence between 
the standard and the essential requirements of the applicable EU directive. 
This may also include modifications to the standard (for example in EN 
55032/A11: “With respect to Clause 11 (Measurement uncertainty), the following 
shall not be applied, if Clause 5 (Requirements) is applied for the purposes of 
the presumption of conformity: 'Refer to CISPR TR 16-4-3 for guidance on the 
applicability of the limits to a series production MME'.”). Such an amendment 
A11 is now a legal prerequisite of having the standard listed in the Official 
Journal of the EU. The OJEU may not list all amendments (for EN 55032, the 
amendment A1 is not listed, cf. https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/45365). 
Nevertheless, you are free to reference standards in your Declaration of 
Conformity that are not listed in the OJEU (even non-EN standards), and if your 
DoC resp. your test report is based on an unlisted standard or amendment (e.g. 
EN 55032/A1), I recommend to reference it in the DoC.

Kind regards,

Bernd

Von: Scott Xe mailto:scott...@gmail.com>>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. April 2022 12:53
An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Betreff: [PSES] EN Standard amendments

EN standards have two types of amendment: A1 - A9 and/or A11 - A19.  As far as 
I know, A1 - A9 come from IEC/CISPR standard whereas A11 - A19 from CENELEC EN 
standard.  For products to EU markets, does the product comply with A11 - A19 
only?

For example, EN 55032 : 2015 has both A1 : 2020 and + A11 : 2020.  Is A1 : 2020 
only applied for markets outside the EU?

Thanks and regards,

Scott
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: 

Re: [PSES] Trouble with IEEE Xplore

[Charles Grasso]

Hello John - The IEEE Explorer site takes my money gleefully!

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 11:30 AM John Woodgate  wrote:

> * This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: j...@woodjohn.uk
>  *
> --
>
> This is off-topic, but I hope that someone who knows more about IEEE can
> help me. I've know for years that I can't even buy a paper from Xplore, let
> alone get one free; it just doesn't work, but today I needed a paper so
> couldn't just give up. I went to the Chat feature and the agent was able to
> buy the paper for me, but could not fix the problem.
>
> What happens is that I sign in, find the paper, click on 'PDF', putting
> the paper in my cart, then I click on the 'Purchase' tab. That takes me
> back to the sign-in page and empties the cart.
>
> Does anyone else have this problem?
> --
>
> ==
> Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
> www.woodjohn.uk
> 
> Rayleigh, Essex UK
> Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> 
> <#m_2841483488994329676_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> emc-p...@ieee.org
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
> 
> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe)
> 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org
> Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org
> David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
>


-- 

Charles Grasso

Dish Technologies

 (c) 303-204-2974

(w) 303-706-5467

(h) 303-317-5530

(e ) charles.gra...@dish.com

(e2) chasgra...@gmail.com

-

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Re: [PSES] Trouble with IEEE Xplore

[Bill Owsley]

 Yup, same here.  quit using it years ago.
On Wednesday, April 13, 2022, 01:49:11 PM EDT, Richard Nute 
 wrote:  
 
 
 

What happens is that I sign in, find the paper, click on 'PDF', putting the 
paper in my cart, then I click on the 'Purchase' tab. That takes me back to the 
sign-in page and empties the cart.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Yes!  Exactly.  I’ve never been able to obtain a paper.  

Best regards,

Rich

  

  

  
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

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Jim Bacher 
David Heald 
  

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Trouble with IEEE Xplore

[Richard Nute]

 

What happens is that I sign in, find the paper, click on 'PDF', putting the 
paper in my cart, then I click on the 'Purchase' tab. That takes me back to the 
sign-in page and empties the cart.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Yes!  Exactly.  I’ve never been able to obtain a paper.  

Best regards,

Rich

 

 

 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] Trouble with IEEE Xplore

[John Woodgate]

This is off-topic, but I hope that someone who knows more about IEEE can 
help me. I've know for years that I can't even buy a paper from Xplore, 
let alone get one free; it just doesn't work, but today I needed a paper 
so couldn't just give up. I went to the Chat feature and the agent was 
able to buy the paper for me, but could not fix the problem.


What happens is that I sign in, find the paper, click on 'PDF', putting 
the paper in my cart, then I click on the 'Purchase' tab. That takes me 
back to the sign-in page and empties the cart.


Does anyone else have this problem?

--
==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque




--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] EN Standard amendments

[Scott Xe]

Hi Bernd,

Many thanks for your comments.  Can we consider IEC amendment as non-EN
amendment and it should be applied by non-EU countries.

I have a recent case on a conformity test report that adopts A1 amendment
only.  However in OJEU it states A11.  There is a risk for the market
surveillance to challenge the missing A11 amendment.  I am unsure if both
A1 and A11 refer to the same topic or different one.

In the similar case, the public test house will do the conformity test
using the latest version of standard.  If OJEU does not or has not adopted
the latest version of a standard as harmonised standard, it may bring us
unnecessary frustration about invalid standard applied when we deal with
market surveillance.  Of course, we can adopt whatever standards apart from
harmonised standards but need to convene the market surveillance in
agreement.

Best regards,

Scott


On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 at 19:17, Dürrer Bernd  wrote:

> Hi Scott,
>
>
>
> all amendments published by CENELEC are applicable. You may check on
> published amendments using the standards search provided by CENELEC (for
> EN 55032 https://standards.cencenelec.eu/dyn/www/f?p=205:105:0:).
> Typically, an amendment A11 is published by CENELEC to establish the
> correspondence between the standard and the essential requirements of the
> applicable EU directive. This may also include modifications to the
> standard (for example in EN 55032/A11: “With respect to Clause 11
> (Measurement uncertainty), the following shall not be applied, if Clause 5
> (Requirements) is applied for the purposes of the presumption of
> conformity: 'Refer to CISPR TR 16-4-3 for guidance on the applicability of
> the limits to a series production MME'.”). Such an amendment A11 is now a
> legal prerequisite of having the standard listed in the Official Journal of
> the EU. The OJEU may not list all amendments (for EN 55032, the amendment
> A1 is not listed, cf. https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/45365).
> Nevertheless, you are free to reference standards in your Declaration of
> Conformity that are not listed in the OJEU (even non-EN standards), and if
> your DoC resp. your test report is based on an unlisted standard or
> amendment (e.g. EN 55032/A1), I recommend to reference it in the DoC.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
> *Von:* Scott Xe 
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 13. April 2022 12:53
> *An:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Betreff:* [PSES] EN Standard amendments
>
>
>
> EN standards have two types of amendment: A1 - A9 and/or A11 - A19.  As
> far as I know, A1 - A9 come from IEC/CISPR standard whereas A11 - A19 from
> CENELEC EN standard.  For products to EU markets, does the product comply
> with A11 - A19 only?
>
>
>
> For example, EN 55032 : 2015 has both A1 : 2020 and + A11 : 2020.  Is A1 :
> 2020 only applied for markets outside the EU?
>
>
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
>
>
> Scott
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
> 
> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> 
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe)
> 
> List 

[PSES] AW: [PSES] EN Standard amendments

[Dürrer Bernd]

Hi Scott,

all amendments published by CENELEC are applicable. You may check on published 
amendments using the standards search provided by CENELEC (for EN 55032 
https://standards.cencenelec.eu/dyn/www/f?p=205:105:0:). Typically, an 
amendment A11 is published by CENELEC to establish the correspondence between 
the standard and the essential requirements of the applicable EU directive. 
This may also include modifications to the standard (for example in EN 
55032/A11: "With respect to Clause 11 (Measurement uncertainty), the following 
shall not be applied, if Clause 5 (Requirements) is applied for the purposes of 
the presumption of conformity: 'Refer to CISPR TR 16-4-3 for guidance on the 
applicability of the limits to a series production MME'."). Such an amendment 
A11 is now a legal prerequisite of having the standard listed in the Official 
Journal of the EU. The OJEU may not list all amendments (for EN 55032, the 
amendment A1 is not listed, cf. https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/45365). 
Nevertheless, you are free to reference standards in your Declaration of 
Conformity that are not listed in the OJEU (even non-EN standards), and if your 
DoC resp. your test report is based on an unlisted standard or amendment (e.g. 
EN 55032/A1), I recommend to reference it in the DoC.

Kind regards,

Bernd

Von: Scott Xe 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. April 2022 12:53
An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Betreff: [PSES] EN Standard amendments

EN standards have two types of amendment: A1 - A9 and/or A11 - A19.  As far as 
I know, A1 - A9 come from IEC/CISPR standard whereas A11 - A19 from CENELEC EN 
standard.  For products to EU markets, does the product comply with A11 - A19 
only?

For example, EN 55032 : 2015 has both A1 : 2020 and + A11 : 2020.  Is A1 : 2020 
only applied for markets outside the EU?

Thanks and regards,

Scott
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

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 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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unsubscribe)
List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

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Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>



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[PSES] EN Standard amendments

[Scott Xe]

EN standards have two types of amendment: A1 - A9 and/or A11 - A19.  As far
as I know, A1 - A9 come from IEC/CISPR standard whereas A11 - A19 from
CENELEC EN standard.  For products to EU markets, does the product comply
with A11 - A19 only?

For example, EN 55032 : 2015 has both A1 : 2020 and + A11 : 2020.  Is A1 :
2020 only applied for markets outside the EU?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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formats), large files, etc.

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Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

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Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: