Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Safety for e-scooters, e-bikes

[Ted Eckert]

By coincidence, there was a notice in today's Federal Register that OSHA is 
extending UL's scope of recognition to add two standards.

  *   UL 2272: Standard for electrical systems and personal e-mobility devices
  *   UL 2849: Standard for electrical systems for eBikes

Ted Eckert
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.

From: Douglas E Powell 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2022 2:26 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Safety for e-scooters, e-bikes

All,

My Friday question is about storage/charging of e-scooters and e-bikes. It 
seems that these days more and more people are using these devices and fire 
safety is a growing concern. It seems my news feed has a new instance every few 
days.  Some of these cases are very tragic outcomes, in that the owner brings 
these devices just inside the door to their apartment for overnight charging.  
Of course, if there is a lithium fire, it is rather violent and blocks the exit 
for the occupants.

I am not very familiar with which safety standards are available in North 
America and Europe, and do they have requirements to address such concerns in 
the user documentation?  I do know that some building owners are taking matters 
into their own hands and requiring these devices be charged outdoors; which may 
have varying success in mitigating building fires.  In any case, many e-scooter 
owners are probably not very keen on leaving their property where it can be 
easily stolen.

Thoughts?

-Doug

Laporte, Colorado USA
LinkedIn

(UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT)

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Re: [PSES] Safety for e-scooters, e-bikes

[Scott Xe]

Dear Doug,

Panasonic, ATL/CATL, BYD, Samsung, LG are good batteries for this type of
product.

Regards,

Scott

On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 at 22:37, Douglas E Powell  wrote:

> Thanks Dan,
>
> So I have to wonder what brand lithium battery Bosch is using.  And this
> is a great starting point for me to dig in a little.
>
> -Doug
>
>
> Douglas E Powell
> Laporte, Colorado USA
> doug...@gmail.com
> LinkedIn 
>
> (UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT)
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 7:30 AM Dan Roman <
> 0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> Doug/Scott,
>>
>>
>>
>> My wife’s e-bike has a Bosch motor and battery and seems to be well made
>> and certified so I am comfortable storing and charging it in my garage.
>> Included a picture of the label with agency marks, sorry it is a little
>> blurry.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I think there are definitely safety schemes available, but as with
>> everything, quality may vary from vendor to vendor.  I would trust Bosch
>> over a vendor I never heard of and the Bosch motor and battery certainly
>> played a large role in picking which e-bike to purchase.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2022 10:54 AM
>> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Safety for e-scooters, e-bikes
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Doug,
>>
>>
>>
>> I learned that China prohibits carrying e-scooters and e-bikes to their
>> houses and even entering the lifts of the building for storage/charging.
>> Since the battery capacity is much bigger than the li-ion battery using in
>> normal portable devices, the battery and the charger must comply with rigid
>> safety requirements.  Do not recommend buying unknown brand products in
>> this type of goods.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 at 05:27, Douglas E Powell  wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> My Friday question is about storage/charging of e-scooters and e-bikes.
>> It seems that these days more and more people are using these devices and
>> fire safety is a growing concern. It seems my news feed has a new instance
>> every few days.  Some of these cases are very tragic outcomes, in that the
>> owner brings these devices just inside the door to their apartment for
>> overnight charging.  Of course, if there is a lithium fire, it is rather
>> violent and blocks the exit for the occupants.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not very familiar with which safety standards are available in
>> North America and Europe, and do they have requirements to address such
>> concerns in the user documentation?  I do know that some building owners
>> are taking matters into their own hands and requiring these devices be
>> charged outdoors; which may have varying success in mitigating building
>> fires.  In any case, many e-scooter owners are probably not very keen on
>> leaving their property where it can be easily stolen.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> -Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> Laporte, Colorado USA
>>
>> LinkedIn 
>>
>>
>>
>> (UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> 
>>
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
>> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>>
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>>
>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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>> unsubscribe) 
>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>>
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>> Mike Cantwell 
>>
>> For policy questions, send mail to:
>> Jim Bacher 
>> David Heald 
>> --
>>
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>> -
>> 
>>
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>> emc-p...@ieee.org>
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Re: [PSES] Safety for e-scooters, e-bikes

[Scott Xe]

Dear Doug,

For EU market, below safety regulations/standards are applicable to your
products.

·   Toys Safety Directive 2009/48/EC

o   EN 14619 : 2019

o   EN 71

·   Machinery Directive 2006/42/EC

o   EN 12100-1 : 2010

·   General Product Safety Directive 2001/95/EC / Low Voltage Directive
2014/35/EU / Radio Equipment Directive 2014/53/EU

o   EN 17128 : 2020

o   EN 62133-2 : 2017 + A1 : 2021

o   EN 60529 : 1992 + A2 : 2013 Ingress protection

o   ISO 6742-1

o   ISO 14878

o   ISO 6742-2

o   EN 60335-1 : 2012 + A11 : 2014 + A13 : 2017 + A1 : 2019 + A2 : 2019 +
A14 : 2019 + A15 : 2021

o   EN 60335-2-114. Household and similar electrical appliances. Safety.
Part 2-114. Particular requirements for self-balancing personal transport
devices incorporating batteries containing alkaline or other non-acid
electrolytes

o   EN 60335-2-29 : 2004 + A2 : 2010 or EN 61558-1 & EN 61558-2-16

o   EN 15194 : 2017


Best regards,

Scott


On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 at 22:37, Douglas E Powell  wrote:

> Thanks Dan,
>
> So I have to wonder what brand lithium battery Bosch is using.  And this
> is a great starting point for me to dig in a little.
>
> -Doug
>
>
> Douglas E Powell
> Laporte, Colorado USA
> doug...@gmail.com
> LinkedIn 
>
> (UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT)
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 7:30 AM Dan Roman <
> 0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> Doug/Scott,
>>
>>
>>
>> My wife’s e-bike has a Bosch motor and battery and seems to be well made
>> and certified so I am comfortable storing and charging it in my garage.
>> Included a picture of the label with agency marks, sorry it is a little
>> blurry.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I think there are definitely safety schemes available, but as with
>> everything, quality may vary from vendor to vendor.  I would trust Bosch
>> over a vendor I never heard of and the Bosch motor and battery certainly
>> played a large role in picking which e-bike to purchase.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2022 10:54 AM
>> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Safety for e-scooters, e-bikes
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Doug,
>>
>>
>>
>> I learned that China prohibits carrying e-scooters and e-bikes to their
>> houses and even entering the lifts of the building for storage/charging.
>> Since the battery capacity is much bigger than the li-ion battery using in
>> normal portable devices, the battery and the charger must comply with rigid
>> safety requirements.  Do not recommend buying unknown brand products in
>> this type of goods.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 at 05:27, Douglas E Powell  wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> My Friday question is about storage/charging of e-scooters and e-bikes.
>> It seems that these days more and more people are using these devices and
>> fire safety is a growing concern. It seems my news feed has a new instance
>> every few days.  Some of these cases are very tragic outcomes, in that the
>> owner brings these devices just inside the door to their apartment for
>> overnight charging.  Of course, if there is a lithium fire, it is rather
>> violent and blocks the exit for the occupants.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not very familiar with which safety standards are available in
>> North America and Europe, and do they have requirements to address such
>> concerns in the user documentation?  I do know that some building owners
>> are taking matters into their own hands and requiring these devices be
>> charged outdoors; which may have varying success in mitigating building
>> fires.  In any case, many e-scooter owners are probably not very keen on
>> leaving their property where it can be easily stolen.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> -Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> Laporte, Colorado USA
>>
>> LinkedIn 
>>
>>
>>
>> (UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> 
>>
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
>> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>>
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>>
>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
>> unsubscribe) 
>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>>
>> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>> Mike Cantwell 
>>
>> For policy questions, send mail to:
>> Jim Bacher 
>> David Heald 
>> --
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link:
>> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
>>
>> -
>> --

Re: [PSES] Country Requirements -EMC Safety

[Charlie Blackham]

Ryan / all
Just to add to Brian's comments
> One would think if manufacturers are required to meet country requirements it 
> would be public knowledge.
In many cases it is - but information may be contained across more than one 
website and only in the language of the country.
There are a number of companies, either independent Global Market Access 
consultancies or teams within international test labs who "do this for a 
living" and keep up to date.
Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Brian Ceresney 
Sent: 19 August 2022 00:22
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Country Requirements -EMC Safety

Hi Ryan, All.
After years in this predicament, I've defaulted to using the agencies to 
research the requirements for me.  I also list the countries needed and submit 
for a quote to an agency with an international GMAP group. For a reasonable 
fee, they will research and provide the information. This may take months to 
complete, however because it's not easy.
In addition, the agencies often send out emails touting their appointment as 
the agency favoured to perform specific country approvals. I've found often 
that the agency personnel are not aware of how to perform this approval, and 
sometimes no one in the agency knows either - even in-country staff!
Another good one I've found is that some of the requests from customers contain 
tiny jurisdictions where almost no one lives. Good times!

Best Of Luck.
Best Regards,
Brian C.




[https://connect.delta-q.com/hubfs/Logos%20(Delta-Q)/25-06-2012_Delta_Q_Corporate_Grey_Mango_Vertical.png]
Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
A Zapi Group Company
1-604-566-8827
bceres...@delta-q.com
delta-q.com
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From: Ryan Jazz 
mailto:rjayasin...@yamahaguitargroup.com>>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2022 12:08 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Country Requirements -EMC Safety

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.

Dear Members,
I am trying to create a list of country requirement as it relates to EMC and 
Safety requirements.
However I have not been successful-These requirements appear to be a mystery.
One would think if manufacturers are required to meet country requirements it 
would be public knowledge.
I have checked trade.gov and other searches with no luck.
If anyone can please share this secret it would be much appreciated.
Perhaps you can share how you go about finding these requirements.
If one has to use a subscription service to get the answers I would like to 
hear any recommendations.
Sincerely,
Ryan Jazz
Ryan Jayasinghe
Regulatory Compliance Engineer
rjayasin...@line6.com

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous 
Huxley

LINE6
26580 Agoura Road
Calabasas CA 91302
818.575.3711
line6.com
ampeg.com

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David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>



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