Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

[John Mcbain]

And raising concern about batteries starting fires:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cargo-ship-fire-netherlands-ev-electric-vehicle-battery-north-sea-freemantle-highway/

The cause is NOT known but it MAY have been started in an electric car -
not confirmed.

Best regards,
John McBain


On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 5:39 AM Ted Eckert <
07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:

> I can give additional background on the reason why these fires have become
> common in New York. A large number of residents of New York City use
> delivery services for goods and food, such as Uber-Eats, DoorDash, and
> GrubHub. The adoption of these delivery services accelerated during the
> COVID lockdown, and it has become a major business in the city. The drivers
> for these services are contractors, not employees, and they get paid based
> on delivery without reimbursement for expenses. Driving a car is expensive,
> and finding parking is very hard. Delivery people who drive cars often lose
> money because they incur too many parking tickets. The delivery people have
> switched to battery-powered electric scooters and bicycles.
>
>
>
> These small electric vehicles are optimal for the delivery services since
> they can move around stopped traffic easily, and they can be brought inside
> the door of a building for a delivery, avoiding the risk of parking fines
> or the vehicle getting stolen. However, the batteries will only last for a
> few hours of use at most. The delivery people want the option of using the
> electric bicycle or scooter all day to try to make more money. The common
> solution is to remove the battery that came with the vehicle and replace it
> with a much larger after-market replacement. The delivery services do not
> pay well, so people look for the cheapest option they can find for a large
> battery. The regulations in the United States make it easy to order
> something online that has undergone no safety testing at all. The result is
> that a battery of dubious quality is placed in an electric bicycle by a
> person with dubious technical skills. No effort may have been made to match
> the charger with the battery. The battery may not be provided with the
> physical protection necessary to avoid damage during use. The question
> isn’t why there are so many fires, but why there aren’t more considering
> the circumstances.
>
>
>
> In the United States, there is reasonable indemnification of the test
> laboratories. The test laboratories accredited under the OSHA Nationally
> Recognized Test Laboratory (NRTL) system have a reasonable level of
> protection. If a product carrying one of their certification marks fails,
> they can be sued, but it would be hard for that law suit to make it to
> court. The test laboratories will indicate that they tested samples on a
> given date and found those samples to meet the technical requirements of
> the standard at that time. Their report does not state that the samples
> were safe. It only states that they passed testing of specific
> requirements. The legal system places the responsibility for safety onto
> the manufacturer.
>
>
>
> The challenges that I see are that battery manufacturers willing to ignore
> safety might be willing to forge safety certification marks and documents.
> I strongly suspect you can buy product online and have them shipped to the
> UK or Europe with a Declaration of Conformity based on nothing. I suspect
> manufacturers will claim their products meet requirements without testing
> or documentation to back it up. If the manufacturer is located outside of
> Europe and has no legal presence there, they can sell on line and avoid
> responsibility. I strongly suspect that this is why there are stricter
> requirements for online importers and distributors in the new GPSR.
>
>
>
> The overall issue is not new. Insufficient testing, forged or missing
> documentation, irresponsible actors shipping from the far side of the world
> and the other problems have existed for a while. However, the large size of
> the batteries in these scooters and bicycles, and the common charging of
> them indoors in buildings with a large number of residents, creates an
> issue where a failure can jeopardize many more lives in a single incident.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ted Eckert
>
>
>
> *The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of
> my employer.*
>
>
>
> *From:* Matthew Wilson | GBE 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 28, 2023 2:11 AM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...
>
>
>
> I thought this news article that was on the BBC TV broadcast bulletins 27
> th July might be of interest.
>
>
>
> “Batteries for e-bikes should be regulated in the same way as fireworks,
> heavy machinery or medical devices because of the fire risk they pose, a
> charity [UK based Electrical Safety First] has said”
>
>
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66304564
>
>
>
>
>
> *Disclaimer:*
>  This email 

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

[Jim Bacher, WB8VSU]

When I worked for a manufacturer, only two countries in Europe stopped 
shipments of products to confirm we had done the testing required to apply 
the CE Mark.


I wouldn't be surprised to find out the products that had fires were bought 
online from sellers on eBay or similar online services.


There are eBay sellers in China that sell products that are made by 
manufacturers who do not identify themselves. They tend to not have 
manuals, labels, etc.


I recently bought two RF Power meters to test. One was about $32 and one 
was $98 (USA dollars). Neither of them had the manfacture identified, etc. 
Neither preformed very well against the  specifications the sellers were 
claiming.


Single items being shipped in from China, bought online, will likely never 
be checked for certifications.


Jim



On July 28, 2023 5:23:22 AM Charlie Blackham  
wrote:

Matthew

I think the issue is, again, one of enforcement – the UK General Product 
Safety Regulations impose requirements on both manufacturers and importers, 
so there is existing legislation that could be used.



Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web:
https://sulisconsultants.com/

Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Matthew Wilson | GBE 
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 10:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

I thought this news article that was on the BBC TV broadcast bulletins 27th 
July might be of interest.



“Batteries for e-bikes should be regulated in the same way as fireworks, 
heavy machinery or medical devices because of the fire risk they pose, a 
charity [UK based Electrical Safety First] has said”


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66304564






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​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, 
West Sussex, BN12 4QY.






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Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

[Ted Eckert]

I can give additional background on the reason why these fires have become 
common in New York. A large number of residents of New York City use delivery 
services for goods and food, such as Uber-Eats, DoorDash, and GrubHub. The 
adoption of these delivery services accelerated during the COVID lockdown, and 
it has become a major business in the city. The drivers for these services are 
contractors, not employees, and they get paid based on delivery without 
reimbursement for expenses. Driving a car is expensive, and finding parking is 
very hard. Delivery people who drive cars often lose money because they incur 
too many parking tickets. The delivery people have switched to battery-powered 
electric scooters and bicycles.

These small electric vehicles are optimal for the delivery services since they 
can move around stopped traffic easily, and they can be brought inside the door 
of a building for a delivery, avoiding the risk of parking fines or the vehicle 
getting stolen. However, the batteries will only last for a few hours of use at 
most. The delivery people want the option of using the electric bicycle or 
scooter all day to try to make more money. The common solution is to remove the 
battery that came with the vehicle and replace it with a much larger 
after-market replacement. The delivery services do not pay well, so people look 
for the cheapest option they can find for a large battery. The regulations in 
the United States make it easy to order something online that has undergone no 
safety testing at all. The result is that a battery of dubious quality is 
placed in an electric bicycle by a person with dubious technical skills. No 
effort may have been made to match the charger with the battery. The battery 
may not be provided with the physical protection necessary to avoid damage 
during use. The question isn’t why there are so many fires, but why there 
aren’t more considering the circumstances.

In the United States, there is reasonable indemnification of the test 
laboratories. The test laboratories accredited under the OSHA Nationally 
Recognized Test Laboratory (NRTL) system have a reasonable level of protection. 
If a product carrying one of their certification marks fails, they can be sued, 
but it would be hard for that law suit to make it to court. The test 
laboratories will indicate that they tested samples on a given date and found 
those samples to meet the technical requirements of the standard at that time. 
Their report does not state that the samples were safe. It only states that 
they passed testing of specific requirements. The legal system places the 
responsibility for safety onto the manufacturer.

The challenges that I see are that battery manufacturers willing to ignore 
safety might be willing to forge safety certification marks and documents. I 
strongly suspect you can buy product online and have them shipped to the UK or 
Europe with a Declaration of Conformity based on nothing. I suspect 
manufacturers will claim their products meet requirements without testing or 
documentation to back it up. If the manufacturer is located outside of Europe 
and has no legal presence there, they can sell on line and avoid 
responsibility. I strongly suspect that this is why there are stricter 
requirements for online importers and distributors in the new GPSR.

The overall issue is not new. Insufficient testing, forged or missing 
documentation, irresponsible actors shipping from the far side of the world and 
the other problems have existed for a while. However, the large size of the 
batteries in these scooters and bicycles, and the common charging of them 
indoors in buildings with a large number of residents, creates an issue where a 
failure can jeopardize many more lives in a single incident.


Ted Eckert

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.

From: Matthew Wilson | GBE 
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 2:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

I thought this news article that was on the BBC TV broadcast bulletins 27th 
July might be of interest.

“Batteries for e-bikes should be regulated in the same way as fireworks, heavy 
machinery or medical devices because of the fire risk they pose, a charity [UK 
based Electrical Safety First] has said”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66304564


[cid:image001.png@01D9C115.937B36E0][cid:image002.png@01D9C113.48893030]
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intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
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not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender 
immediately.
​The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the 
views of the company, unless specifically stated.
​
​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company 

Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

[John Woodgate]

The charity is often none too strong on technicalities, except for the 
articles by electrically-qualified people. The big problem with 
third-party testing is the legal exposure of the test houses to actions 
for damages. The premiums could be enormous and unsustainable. However, 
the position stated is not accurate; manufacturers have to declare 
conformity with regulations, and bear total responsibility, but that 
effectively means that the batteries DO have to be third-party tested 
(few manufacturers can do their own in-house testing, and those that do 
have to have their facilities vetted), but the test house is not widely 
exposed to legal action, except action by the manufacturer.


On 2023-07-28 10:10, Matthew Wilson | GBE wrote:


I thought this news article that was on the BBC TV broadcast bulletins 
27^th July might be of interest.


“Batteries for e-bikes should be regulated in the same way as 
fireworks, heavy machinery or medical devices because of the fire risk 
they pose, a charity [UK based Electrical Safety First] has said”


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66304564

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​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
number 06210991.
​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West 
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[PSES] -- Laboratory Scheduling Software Options

[James Pawson (U3C)]

Hello folks,

 

We are hitting the limits of our calendar system in terms of being able to
easily allocate resources (both human and test facility) efficiently. The
problem mostly manifests in terms of "who is using resource x at the moment?
Can we fit this other work in?"

 

We want to be able to allocate test facility and test engineer to specific
projects in a calendar format.

 

As such, I would like to ask about your experiences in using different
software solutions for laboratory scheduling management.

 


What system are you currently using?

Internal, software name/provider, etc


How would you rate it out of 10?

1 = dogs breakfast, 10 = smoother than a McDonalds milkshake


What systems have you used in the past?

 


How would you rate them out of 10?

 


What features do you wish you had?

 

 

 

(We already have a Kanban-like solution for inquiry and project workflow
management, but I imagine most of these systems will incorporate this or a
laboratory sample tracking system)

 

Feel free to reply off list to ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk
  if you are more comfortable doing so.
I'm happy to anonymise the results and republish a list. I'm also posting
this on a couple of other email forums so apologies for the s.p.a.m.

 

All the best

James

 

James Pawson

Managing Director & EMC Problem Solver

 

Unit 3 Compliance Ltd

EMC : Environmental & Vibration : Electrical Safety : CE & UKCA :
Consultancy

 

  www.unit3compliance.co.uk |
 ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk 

+44(0)1274 911747  |  +44(0)7811 139957

2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL

Registered in England and Wales # 10574298

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

[Charlie Blackham]

Matthew

I think the issue is, again, one of enforcement – the UK General Product Safety 
Regulations impose requirements on both manufacturers and importers, so there 
is existing legislation that could be used.

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Matthew Wilson | GBE 
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 10:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

I thought this news article that was on the BBC TV broadcast bulletins 27th 
July might be of interest.

“Batteries for e-bikes should be regulated in the same way as fireworks, heavy 
machinery or medical devices because of the fire risk they pose, a charity [UK 
based Electrical Safety First] has said”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66304564


[cid:image001.png@01D9C13D.7DA6A7A0][cid:image002.png@01D9C13C.B137C140]
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​The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the 
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​
​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
number 06210991.
​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West 
Sussex, BN12 4QY.


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[PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...

[Matthew Wilson | GBE]

I thought this news article that was on the BBC TV broadcast bulletins 27th 
July might be of interest.

"Batteries for e-bikes should be regulated in the same way as fireworks, heavy 
machinery or medical devices because of the fire risk they pose, a charity [UK 
based Electrical Safety First] has said"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66304564



Matthew WilsonMIET
Technical Director
GB Electronics (UK) Ltd
matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com
www.gbelectronics.com
+44 (0) 1903 244 500
Ascot House|Mulberry Close|Woods Way
Goring-by-Sea|West Sussex|BN12 4QY|UK
Certificate Number 10455
​ISO 9001, ISO 14001
Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
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number 06210991.
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Sussex, BN12 4QY.

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