Re: [PSES] I would like to hear your thoughts please

[Gert Gremmen F4LDP]

Dear All,

Within the framework of the EMCD, all configurations shall be conform, 
so if you choose to actually test,
all configurations shall be part of the test. The subject of worse case 
is a "miroir d'alouette"... how will you ever know which
is worst case without carrying out the test ? A pre-scan is informative 
but the radiated emission test contains already a pre-scan (peak) for 
the final QP-measurement.  We already require a EMC risk analysis which 
is a kind of pre-scan too. How many pre-pre-prescans will we need to be 
sure ?
"to repeat _some_ (which?) test to make sure nothing was broken" 
it's another discipline, but that is how Boeing lost a door in flight. 
And that  is not a unregulated sector without thorough quality scans 
(understatement), and still it happens. Imagine the costs and effort for 
Boeing to rebuild their reputation ? Didn't we all learned the 
exponential graph of EMC costs versus development time ?
If you need proof (for authorities, or for yourself), nothing can 
replace the actual test.


Gert Gremmen

On 6-4-2024 0:47, Lfresearch wrote:

Hi folks,

I would like to advise a client at where to draw the line on what needs 
testing. I would like to solicit opinions besides my own. Otherwise it’s the 
fox urging the chicken coop…

So a manufacturer that makes a product of which there will be several variants. 
All use the same board, but have different sections of circuits populated. This 
may require slightly different code to run on the same uP in each case.

So.. The burning question is can we perform and analysis that postulates a 
worse case hardware/software combination and test just one configuration? Or, 
do we have to do every combination?

Or, are there some guidelines about where we draw the line of what to test and 
what can be claimed as similarity?

Off list responses are welcome too.

Thanks,

Derek Walton
LFResearch/SSCLabs.

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Re: [PSES] I would like to hear your thoughts please

[Boštjan Glavič]

Hi Derek

It is common practice within the labs to find worse case configuration and test 
it.

At least we are doing it in such a way.

You can find some guidlines how to form families on IECEE page, but I think 
your case is different.

The best way is to test one fully populated product.

Best regards
Bostjan Glavic
SIQ



Poslano iz Outlook za Android


Od: Lfresearch <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Poslano: sobota, april 6, 2024 12:47:49 AM
Za: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Zadeva: [PSES] I would like to hear your thoughts please

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of our organisation. Do not click 
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Hi folks,

I would like to advise a client at where to draw the line on what needs 
testing. I would like to solicit opinions besides my own. Otherwise it’s the 
fox urging the chicken coop…

So a manufacturer that makes a product of which there will be several variants. 
All use the same board, but have different sections of circuits populated. This 
may require slightly different code to run on the same uP in each case.

So.. The burning question is can we perform and analysis that postulates a 
worse case hardware/software combination and test just one configuration? Or, 
do we have to do every combination?

Or, are there some guidelines about where we draw the line of what to test and 
what can be claimed as similarity?

Off list responses are welcome too.

Thanks,

Derek Walton
LFResearch/SSCLabs.

-

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Re: [PSES] I would like to hear your thoughts please

[Don Gies]

Propose a sampling of configurations to the powers that may be.

Don Gies
Field Service Engineer

GUTOR

M: +1 346 313 6216
E:  donald.g...@non.se.com

17 Capitol Reef Road
Howell, NJ 07731 USA

Sent by Android Phone


General


From: John Woodgate 
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2024 3:59:57 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: Re: [PSES] I would like to hear your thoughts please


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I agree: pre-scan is the way to go. Document all of the steps so that you can 
produce your reasons for your decision if challenged.

On 2024-04-06 00:05, Brent DeWitt wrote:
Tough one!  The problem lies in the determination of "worst case". While it 
would be easy to presume that having all of the hardware populated is worst 
case, it overlooks the effects of un-terminated stubs and other SI related 
issues.  In addition, with the world of firmware based PLL clocks and memory 
traffic, it is a tough thing to determine.  My opinion would be to preform the 
simplest pre-scan on each configuration and base the final, rigorous 
certification based on that knowledge.

Brent Dewitt
Milford, MA

On 4/5/2024 6:47 PM, Lfresearch wrote:
Hi folks,

I would like to advise a client at where to draw the line on what needs 
testing. I would like to solicit opinions besides my own. Otherwise it’s the 
fox urging the chicken coop…

So a manufacturer that makes a product of which there will be several variants. 
All use the same board, but have different sections of circuits populated. This 
may require slightly different code to run on the same uP in each case.

So.. The burning question is can we perform and analysis that postulates a 
worse case hardware/software combination and test just one configuration? Or, 
do we have to do every combination?

Or, are there some guidelines about where we draw the line of what to test and 
what can be claimed as similarity?

Off list responses are welcome too.

Thanks,

Derek Walton
LFResearch/SSCLabs.

-

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Re: [PSES] I would like to hear your thoughts please

[John Woodgate]

I agree: pre-scan is the way to go. Document all of the steps so that 
you can produce your reasons for your decision if challenged.


On 2024-04-06 00:05, Brent DeWitt wrote:
Tough one!  The problem lies in the determination of "worst case". 
While it would be easy to presume that having all of the hardware 
populated is worst case, it overlooks the effects of un-terminated 
stubs and other SI related issues.  In addition, with the world of 
firmware based PLL clocks and memory traffic, it is a tough thing to 
determine.  My opinion would be to preform the simplest pre-scan on 
each configuration and base the final, rigorous certification based on 
that knowledge.


Brent Dewitt
Milford, MA

On 4/5/2024 6:47 PM, Lfresearch wrote:

Hi folks,

I would like to advise a client at where to draw the line on what 
needs testing. I would like to solicit opinions besides my own. 
Otherwise it’s the fox urging the chicken coop…


So a manufacturer that makes a product of which there will be several 
variants. All use the same board, but have different sections of 
circuits populated. This may require slightly different code to run 
on the same uP in each case.


So.. The burning question is can we perform and analysis that 
postulates a worse case hardware/software combination and test just 
one configuration? Or, do we have to do every combination?


Or, are there some guidelines about where we draw the line of what to 
test and what can be claimed as similarity?


Off list responses are welcome too.

Thanks,

Derek Walton
LFResearch/SSCLabs.

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