Re: [PSES] Risk Assessments and mitigation for EMC chambers
From a RF Health and Safety point of view, why is a microwave oven allowed with just an interlock on the door and not allowed for a RF enclosure for EMC? Human Exposure Limit will not apply if no human is in RF chamber when RF is on. Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell マイク KB5UKT -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 3:49 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Risk Assessments and mitigation for EMC chambers In message da4b81107b2a4296adcb45d026290...@thhste15d1be4.hs20.net, dated Thu, 9 Jan 2014, Charlie Blackham char...@sulisconsultants.com writes: Anyone have any documents or stories to share as to how they have satisfied/pacified/dismissed enthusiastic Health Safety officers who still want to ?do something?? A safety briefing won't help if a 400 lb EUT slips off the turntable on to your foot. I think emergency stops are not only reasonable but would be required by law in some jurisdictions, and I don't see any EMC issues. Flashing lights are another matter; EMC issues exist and implementation is not as easy as for emergency stops. Can you show that the applicable human exposure limits cannot anywhere be exceeded with the max amplifier and antenna? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex silvis sumus John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Circuit Breakers - Branch Circuit Protection vs Supplementary
When I mind meld it doesn’t work for them. Just me! Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell マイク KB5UKT From: jral...@productsafetyinc.com [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 2:27 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Circuit Breakers - Branch Circuit Protection vs Supplementary Thanks guys! I especially like to Vulcan Mind-meld On Dec 3, 2013, at 2:11 PM, Peter Tarver ptar...@enphaseenergy.commailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com wrote: John - The simplest method is whether or not the breaker is Listed or Recognized. If it's Listed, it's suitable for branch circuit protection, within the caveats of the product category (some exceptions may exist, but should be detailed in the Listing). Recognized breakers are never suitable for branch circuit protection and are only suitable for supplementary protection applications, unless it's used as a part of a Listed assembly identified for use as branch circuit protection. QVNU2 breakers are not suitable for branch circuit protection. Regards, Peter Tarver This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] VHF-LISN for conducted emission test
Seems like a VLF LISN for below 150kHz might be what he is looking for, asking about?? Just guessing? Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell マイク KB5UKT From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:19 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] VHF-LISN for conducted emission test That sounds a bit confusing to me. VHF is typically 30 MHz to 300 MHz, and an LISN is a device to stabilize the impedance of a powerline to the EUT. Traditionally, an LISN “decouples” itself from impedance control when the length of the powerline to the EUT is about 1/8 lambda or more. Current standards recognize this by defining a powerline length of 1 meter and an upper measurement bound of 10 MHz. Keeping to this philosophy, a 300 MHz LISN would only allow for about a 3 centimeter long powerline. I think you need to clarify what VCCI standard you are trying to work with. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Youngsik Kim [mailto:fs741fs...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:19 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] VHF-LISN for conducted emission test I'm looking for a VHF-LISN It is a product that has become a issure in VCCI Please tell me if you know manufacturer... - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] EN55022:2006 vs. EN55022:2010
Brian, I'd test a 450 Lbs. device on a rolling cart, but this makes it a floor standing test then??? When I was at Nokia we had a closed cell foam 'table' 80cm tall by 1.25 m wide we used. It could hold 100 Lbs. maybe, not sure you'll find anything for 450 Lbs.??? Maybe a foam table with a plastic sheet on top to spread the weight around? Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell マイク KB5UKT -Original Message- From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 7:23 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EN55022:2006 vs. EN55022:2010 So what do they want you to make your test table out of? Styrofoam was favored the last time I looked into this. Is there composite materials that work good plus can take a lot of weight? We have bench-top instruments that weigh over 450 lbs. And you must be able to roll it around. The Other Brian -Original Message- From: Julian Jones [mailto:ju...@hursley-emc.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 2:20 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EN55022:2006 vs. EN55022:2010 Biggest change is probably the type of material for the table you use which needs to be proven not to affect the results. If you have wooden tables then you are going to have a large uncertainty value. There is a bit of work needed to prove your material choice has no effect and doesn't then need to be added to your measurement uncertainty. If your standard uncertainty was say 5dB and then you found the table you use at 6GHz affected the level by 6 dB then your MU becomes 11, which is a large margin to meet for a customer for Class B. Rgds -Original Message- From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 7:09 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EN55022:2006 vs. EN55022:2010 Any major differences here? I assume the limits are the same ... maybe small changes on test set-up, etc ...? Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim
Re: [PSES] Definition of accessible parts
Just wait till all the mercury starts contaminating. Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell マイク KB5UKT -Original Message- From: John Cotman [mailto:john.cot...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Definition of accessible parts You have to be a bit careful comparing the requirements around old incandescent lamps to more modern equipment. The glass envelope filament lamp requirements have a lot of history attached. You couldn't, for example, pass an Edison or bayonet mains lampholder using typical modern requirements because with the lamp removed, (an action not requiring a tool), you can poke your finger into the then accessible live terminals. Similarly, given that the glass envelope is the means by which access to the live filament is prevented, it ought, using more recent thinking, to be able to survive an impact hammer test, but of course it couldn't. It's just that there are so many installed that we are stuck with them. John C -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 05 November 2013 15:43 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Definition of accessible parts Hello Cortland, Interesting! What do RF generators make energy saving lamp different? Scott On 4/11/13 3:18 PM, CR k...@earthlink.net wrote: Internal SMPS's and RF generators make LED's and CFL's different. Cortland Richmond - Recently we notice there are dielectric strength tests for LED lamps and compact FL lamps but no dielectric strength tests required for halogen lamps. Actually they all have glass bulb and all are operating on 230 Vac. Isn?t glass bulb considered as an accessible parts on halogen lamp due to high operating temperature? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Re: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards
Ian, The Conducted RF Limits Frequency Band are lower than your stated starting point. Conducted Frequency limits for FCC are 450kHz to 30MHz. Conducted Frequency limits for CISPR are 150kHz to 30MHz. Now the FCC has said that it will accept the CISPR data, (47CFR15.33 I think) and Canada has said it will accept the CISPR testing data also. (I don’t remember what IC requirement states this?) I also remember that Canada said it will except FCC data (I think?)? I recall that if you tested to CE requirements you were basically covered in Canada IF you were testing at a FCC site also accepted in Canada. Hope this helps, Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell マイク KB5UKT From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 10:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards Hello Ian - In combining the test standards do you mean methodology or limits or both? ICES 003 has different limits to the FCC published limits - so be aware of that. For the test methods refer to the other emails in the thread. From: Ian McBurney [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 9:35 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards Dear Colleagues; I am trying to combine FCC 47 CFR part 15 and Canadian ICES-003:2012 radiated rf emission testing for a digital device that is an unintentional radiator. However; looking into the test standards for each country I am getting perplexed. It appears that for 47 CFR part 15 sub part B, the test standard for compliance is ANSI UL C63.4 2003 whereas for Canada it is the latest edition that is acceptable which I believe is the ANSI UL C63.4 2009. Similarly; if I was to apply the CISPR 22 method then CFR47 part 15 recognises the third edition of CISPR 22 and Canada applies the 6 edition 2008. Is there a common set of standards that can be applied for radiated conducted rf emission measurements that is acceptable in both the USA Canada? I am carrying out measurements from 30MHz to 2GHz to class B limits. Many thanks in advance. Ian McBurney Design Compliance Engineer. Allen Heath Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK T: 01326 372070 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.commailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
Re: [PSES] RTTE example
Tom, I was always taught FFC + FCC doesn't = FCC compliant... Or CE + CE doesn't = CE The whole system needs to be tested, because all combinations can't be covered by any one manufacturer testing. Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell マイク KB5UKT -Original Message- From: T.Sato [mailto:vef00...@nifty.ne.jp] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 6:26 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RTTE example On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:44:35 +, Ian White (SXS UK) ian.wh...@uk.spiraxsarco.com wrote: If you have a control panel which has relays and various other control gear on, all mounted on a Din rail type construction this all comes under the LVD and EMC Directives. If you then include a DIN rail mounted 3G Modem (which has its own D of C) would the entire panel then come under RTTE Directive ? 1) Would the panel have to be re-tested ? 2) RTTE requirements on LVD now apply with no bottom limits on LVD? I think it is essentially a general question, What is the requirements for a final product that integrates an RTTE Directive assessed module?. I think the panel would also be covered by the RTTE Directive. There is a discussion about this topic in RTTE CA guidance note, at: http://www.rtteca.com/TGN01%20-%20May%202013.pdf Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp URL: http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] ARPANSA limits
Who has any SAR equipment up past 10GHz or so? Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell マイク KB5UKT -Original Message- From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 2:22 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ARPANSA limits Brian, I would hope so. We have never been challenged on this but if we were we feel the CISPR22 (CISPR11) test report will be adequate proof of compliance. If you do the math, the CISPR limits are nowhere near the ARPANSA limits even when you calculate for the operator position. Many order of magnitude lower. The Other Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 1:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: ARPANSA limits Looking at spec requiring compliance with Aus/NZ standard for exposure to RF from 3k to 300GHz; which seems to be another tyep of SAR. Unit is nonintentional radiator that meets CISPR22 Class B limits (tests done to 1GHz). Reasonable to use the ITE EMC report as rationale for compliance with ARPANSA? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Fischer CC EM Clamp F-203I-32mm
I once had an auditor who dinged me on not keeping the cables centered in the injection clamp. Next day I had foam cell material in the clamp, pretty much kept the cables centered. I don’t think it made much difference??? Well, no difference that I could see… Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell マイク KB5UKT From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:15 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Fischer CC EM Clamp F-203I-32mm Wendy, Who makes an EM Clamp that has a cable entry of 30mm? The size of the cores needed to handle a cable diameter of any size will be large enough to make this difficult if not impossible. Plus you have to have room for the input ‘N’ connector mounted under the cores. I have never seen an EM Clamp where the cable entry wasn’t 50mm or greater though I’m not saying one doesn’t exist. Typically they are more like 75mm. I don’t know where your supplier got this requirement. I don’t have the latest version of the 4-6 standard but the copy I have only states in section 7.2, “The cable between the AE and the injection clamp shall be kept between 30mm and 50mm above the ground reference plane”. The text doesn’t say anything about the height of the clamps or the cable height between the clamp and EUT, though the picture in figure 6 shows it as 30mm. I don’t see where the short distance the cable has to run higher than 30-50mm coming in and out of the clamp would have much impact on the test results. The Other Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Wendy Nya Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:50 AM To: EMC- PSTC Subject: Fischer CC EM Clamp F-203I-32mm Dear All, We have a very old Fischer CC F-203I-32mm EM Clamp. A supplier pointed out that it does not comply to the 61000-4-6 standard's requirement - the height of the cable entry is more than the standard's requirement of 30-50mm. I just checked Fischer CC website. They are still selling this model. Is anyone still using it? Regards, Wendy - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions:
Re: [PSES] Appropriate ETSI standard for 433 MHz Band Radio
I thought the ISM 430 MHz band, had way less than 500 mW levels ??? Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell KB5UKT From: Anthony Thomson [mailto:ton...@europe.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 8:04 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Appropriate ETSI standard for 433 MHz Band Radio Perhaps David’s interest is in the unlicenced 433.05 to 434.79 Industrial, Scientific Medical (ISM) band. The applicable standards are: EN 300 220-3 for radio (RTTED) EN 301 489-3 for EMC, also required under the RTTED Standards are available free of charge at: http://pda.etsi.org/pda/queryform.asp T - Original Message - From: Charlie Blackham Sent: 08/20/12 01:42 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Appropriate ETSI standard for 433 MHz Band Radio David Look at European Frequency Allocations in CEPT ERC report 25, http://www.erodocdb.dk/docs/doc98/official/pdf/ERCRep025.pdf. 433 MHz is allocated as an Amateur Radio Band, EN 301 783. Regards Charlie From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il]mailto:[mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] Sent: 20 August 2012 13:20 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Appropriate ETSI standard for 433 MHz Band Radio Hello, Any ideas for the appropriate RTTE radio standard for a 433 MHz band, 0.5W conducted RF power, radio device? Any ideas will be appreciated. Regards, David Shidlowsky | Technical Writer Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101 Mail e...@itl.co.i/dav...@itl.co.illmailto:e...@itl.co.i/dav...@itl.co.ill Web www.itl.co.ilhttp://www.itl.co.il Fill out Customer Satisfaction Surveyhttp://app.sqm.co.il/SitePages/Questionnaire.aspx - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org
Re: [PSES] EC vs EU suffix
And here all these years I thought it meant: Compliance Extraordinary... Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell KB5UKT -Original Message- From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:50 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EC vs EU suffix The CE marking remains the same. The meaning is 'Caveat Emptor' ;-) Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 2:44 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EC vs EU suffix Conformité Européenne -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Doug Powell Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 2:30 PM To: peter_kelle...@dell.com Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EC vs EU suffix And the CE mark, what happens to it? CE = Communauté Européenne -- Thanks, -doug Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 On 8/16/12, peter_kelle...@dell.com peter_kelle...@dell.com wrote: EU = European Union EC = European Community The Treaty of Lisbon which came into force in in December 2009 provided for the absorption of the entity known as the European Community by the European Union. Regards Peter. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Xe Sent: 16 August 2012 15:37 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: EC vs EU suffix The EU regulations/decisions/directives published after 2010 have a suffix of EU rather than EC. Is there any particular reason for this change? Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Ophir Amplifier 5127F for Rent?
I'm betting on a broken connectorlook at each connector with a magnifier! Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell KB5UKT -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:57 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Ophir Amplifier 5127F for Rent? In message c3e2eb4dcd575846a467e2b9d2bc36152aea4...@by2prd0410mb365.namprd04.prod.o utlook.com, dated Fri, 10 Aug 2012, Elliott Mac-FME001 fme...@motorolasolutions.com writes: The one we have now seems to have some sort of instability ? the field strength in our chamber varies 3-5 V/m [in a 60 V/m range] even setting the system for a single frequency and constant power. Change the cables and clean all (that means ALL) the connectors. May not work, but if it does -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Instead of saying that the government is doing too little, too late or too much, too early, say they've got is exactly right, thus throwing them into total confusion. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] EU sets EMC limits for London Olympics
I thought (at one time) the backup to CDMA was AMPS service? Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell KB5UKT From: IBM Ken [mailto:ibm...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7:57 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EU sets EMC limits for London Olympics Why are scanners and communication receivers still prohibited from receiving the analog cellular AMPS handset and tower frequencies when the FCC mandate to provide analog service has expired and carriers will not provide analog service any more? As far as I can tell, there is no more analog cellphone traffic at all (even long-life legacy services such as OnStar or alarm systems). On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Ed Price edpr...@cox.netmailto:edpr...@cox.net wrote: In the USA, the legal perception of the public owning the spectrum is reflected in the government not touching receivers, starting way back with the beginnings of the FCC and the Communications Act of 1934. The government could, and did, license and control all emitters, extending their control as new emitters were recognized (receiver local oscillators, incidental radiators). Because of this precedent, there was always a hands-off attitude on receivers, uhh, until the money got big enough to put its thumb on the scales. The first limitations on receivers were not allowing receiving activity on cell-phone frequencies. This instantly made all EMI receivers and spectrum analyzers illegal, but they eventually got around to exempting measurement apparatus. (There was also a time when marketing of broadband amplifiers was also illegal; protection of the 11-meter band while the FCC thought it still had a chance.) Now, there are several restrictions on what you can receive and what kind of apparatus is not allowed. In our day to day testing operations, we are probably violating more than one legal restriction. The mark of a fine bureaucracy is to have passed sufficient legal restrictions that we are all guilty of something. The British apparently never had the mindset of public ownership of the spectrum, so its government had no precedent to keep it from realizing yet another revenue stream. John Chris, do you agree with that? Ed Price El Cajon, CA USA From: Chris [mailto:cksal...@yahoo.commailto:cksal...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 1:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EU sets EMC limits for London Olympics As I can remember from my memory. licensing a receiver was common in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh. local post offices issue an anual permint for use of a radio. If you have more than one radio you need aditional licences. BW/Color TV also had a higher annual fee. In these countries their army/navy/air force regulation/driving/education/legal system following the British system. back in those days my ordly use to bring me my bed tea in the morning at 5.30am. I also got 2 biscut (cookie) and a cup of tea in the evening at 4pm. Those were the good old days. Does anyone know if West Point has similar customs? From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.commailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.commailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com To: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.ukmailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] EU sets EMC limits for London Olympics I always thought the idea of licensing a receiver was odd. Was it just because the older television receivers were efficient unintentional radiators? ___ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.ukmailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 08/06/2012 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] EU sets EMC limits for London Olympics In message cakeaba2ddm+zsvo4ur8dzduh5wshjpdptjyes6xkg31_yox...@mail.gmail.commailto:cakeaba2ddm+zsvo4ur8dzduh5wshjpdptjyes6xkg31_yox...@mail.gmail.com, dated Tue, 7 Aug 2012, IBM Ken ibm...@gmail.commailto:ibm...@gmail.com writes: Do you still need a license to own a television in the UK Yes. and do they still send vans around to detect unlicensed TV's? Seldom, because current TVs don't radiate much. Instead, demographic information is used. Questions are periodically asked at each address at which no TV licence is recorded. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.ukhttp://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/ and www.isce.org.ukhttp://www.isce.org.uk/ Instead of saying that the government is doing too little, too late or too much, too early, say they've got is exactly right, thus throwing them into total confusion. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and
Re: [PSES] Compliance costs too much.
I’ll bet shockingly well! Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell KB5UKT From: Chan Moore [mailto:cmo...@brocade.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:05 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Compliance costs too much. How does that shirt hold up through the washer and dryer? Chan From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]mailto:[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pettit, Ghery Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 7:56 AM To: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen; ri...@ieee.orgmailto:ri...@ieee.org; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Compliance costs too much. How about my shirt from ThinkGeek.com that lights up in the presence of a WiFi signal? ☺ Ghery S. Pettit From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]mailto:[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 12:41 AM To: ri...@ieee.orgmailto:ri...@ieee.org; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Compliance costs too much. Management considers anything that has no direct impact on sales as a cost. Everything that boosts sales or lowers costs (=profit) is an investment. As long as the performance of companies is calculated on a basis of direct profit (sales minus costs) only, in other words as long as capitalism remains the only driving force of our economy (nothing bad about capitalism in itself), compliance engineering will be seen as a direct cost and needs thus needs to be reduced as much as possible. As soon as the faces of our customers turn green on exposure of emissions, compliance will impact sales and will be become an investment. If you now conclude that compliance engineering is a democrat issue, you must be wrong !?! Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen, BSc g.grem...@cetest.nlmailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl www.cetest.nlhttp://www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]mailto:[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Richard Nute Verzonden: Friday, March 30, 2012 5:24 AM Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: Compliance costs too much. I once worked with an EMC engineer who measured the performance of himself and his time by the cost of the components that were used in the equipment solely for the purpose of EMC control. His objective was to reduce the cost of compliance by advising designers of careful layout so as to minimize the need for EMC components. Safety is a bit different because many safety components are also functional components. Nevertheless, a ground wire can be eliminated if double-insulation is employed. In this example, a cost trade-off between the power cord and the extra insulation. But, these days, most primary circuit designs are indeed double-insulated as transformers simply don't use internal shields. Enclosures... only needed for primary circuits and secondary circuits exceeding 30 V. (Yes, you still want an enclosure, but not for safety!) Etc. So, compliance should not cost too much. I look forward to your comments on compliance costing too much. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
Re: [PSES] Wireless Telephone and Wireless Internet Clash - Follow-up #1
Scott, I would isolate the internal house data equipment on a surge protector / filter AC power box. This will ally some of the conducted power line issues you ask about. I'd then get online at the problem time and shut off each of the house breakers one at a time while seeing if the data cleared up after each breaker is turned off. This way you are isolating each 115VAC circuit in your house. IF/THEN If this doesn't find it; (the offending circuit / hardware), it just maybe external to your house but close by. A neighbors hardware? Also it could be between the tree and that mountain top repeater, where data could be bothered but a ping of that path would get through? Trees grow and miss-align antenna paths after a few years. I'd check the aim of the RF path also. Good luck, Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell KB5UKT -Original Message- From: Scott Douglas [mailto:sdoug...@radiusnorth.net] Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 3:19 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Wireless Telephone and Wireless Internet Clash - Follow-up #1 First follow-up to the original post. Let me thank everyone for their interesting responses so far. As always an education. I can tell you it is NOT the 900 MHz wireless phones. We disconnected both of them from AC Mains and telco. We also turned off the outside motion sensing lights. Neither one solved the problem. We have one digital timer that turns on a light about 5 pm and off about 11 pm. This light is a CFL. We are going to replace it today with an incandescent to see if that helps. We have two other CFL in the kitchen but they aren't used very often. We also have another digital timer that turns on an incandescent light at random times. It is usually manually turned off when somebody gets home from work in the evening. So two more tests would be to replace the other two CFL just to be sure and to remove the digital timers. We can think of no other time dependent gizmos that operate only during the 6-10 pm window in our house. There are things that maybe could cause the issue, but they are just as likely to operate at other times as during the problem time. Does anybody think this could be a conducted EMI issue (on the AC Mains getting through the little wall-warts that power either the router or radio)? Or does it seem more likely a to be a radiated issue, as in messing with the modulated RF between our radio and the access point? Or maybe radiated into some cabling or wiring in the house? Still trying to narrow the mechanism down. Somebody asked why is the antenna in the tree. The AP is down by the lake, maybe 150-200 feet lower elevation. And there are hills and tons of trees between us. The ISP brought a bucket truck to move the antenna around and see where he could get the best signal. And it was not from on or around the house. We have seen no power issues on the radio at any time of the year (except when we have ice storms). The AP relays to the main system antennas on top of a local mountain. An ice storm in January 2011 coated the main system antennas with 6 inches of ice. The tower was so coated it was too dangerous to climb so we had to wait until they melted. Otherwise weather has not been an issue. I am not aware of any local radio operators within a mile of our house. There are some dish users that may have communications over the power lines, but they are at least a distribution transformer or two away from us. The saga continues. Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
Re: [PSES] EFT Power Port Coupling Paths
No that applies to 'Good Engineering Practice' . I also have been told 'due diligence' is easy to prove with test data, seems to be harder without test data. Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell KB5UKT -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:06 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EFT Power Port Coupling Paths In message 64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB01C6A831@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local, dated Tue, 7 Feb 2012, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes: More information is generally good. But does that apply to ambiguous information? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK If 'QWERTY' is an English keyboard, what language is 'WYSIWYG' for? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] AHJ vs AHJ
No he will just say More as the AHJ is named Ron...i.e. more ron! Or something like that! Michael Sundstrom OHD TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst EMC Lead (214) 579 6312 office (940) 390 3644 cell KB5UKT -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 3:34 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AHJ vs AHJ From: Brian Oconnell Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 10:23 Inspector shows up, unannounced, and walks into the engineering lab. AHJ (municipal) auditor - ...can't have exposed hazardous electrical on the benches. And these sprinklers do not seem correct... me - only experienced engineers work at these stations - meets skilled and instructed. Please refer to 903 for exempt locations and construction requirements. AHJ - don't care that you can quote this stuff, I will not sign off the electrical work. me - the previous [city] auditor already signed the occupancy cert. AHJ - I can fix that. And why is she taking notes? me - allow me to introduce x from the County Fire Authority... Tune in next week when we hear Brian say: Macaroon? This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] [***] Biconical Antenna Location During NSA for Off-Center Positions
Grace, You are paying the contractor for his expertise in NSA. So I'd assume if it was done wrong they'd have to come back and do it right? Michael Sundstrom -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:28 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [***] Biconical Antenna Location During NSA for Off-Center Positions In message CAJq2vagRL0G4aQuE=fyh7mqo-32jhnawkrndod2465zyr79...@mail.gmail.commailto:CAJq2vagRL0G4aQuE=fyh7mqo-32jhnawkrndod2465zyr79...@mail.gmail.com, dated Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Grace Lin graceli...@gmail.commailto:graceli...@gmail.com writes: . I cannot remember how NSA was performed when the chamber was built four years ago I can't answer your question, but I recommend you take photographs this time. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.ukhttp://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.ukhttp://www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Semi-Anechoic Chamber Question - Correction Factor
Bill, I'd guess 6dB as in voltage, with dBuV being used. Michael Sundstrom OHD / TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst, EMC Lead 2170 French Settlement Rd, Suite B Dallas, Texas 75212 (214) 579 6312 (940) 390 3644c KB5UKT Albert Einstein once said, The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:02 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Semi-Anechoic Chamber Question - Correction Factor Go back, way back, to the paper by pate, german, smith, on the NSA. Go through all the details and calculations and surmise that there is the direct path, and the reflected path. The reflected path adds, or not, to the direct path, depending on wavelength (phase at receive antenna) and distance between antennas. A scan up to 4 meters will generally cover the apparent phase shift at the lower frequencies such that a maximum is recorded. This scan will certainly cover the apparent phase shift of higher freq's. The reflected wave verses the direct wave, will have a longer distance and thus a little more loss. In the worst case, it can be neglected. It will also suffer some loss at the reflecting surface, generally assumed to be a perfect boundary since it is unknown but defined as metal. Thus, the received voltage received via a direct path added with a reflected path, assuming no distance or reflection loss, would be 6 dB higher than the direct path alone. This direct path alone is the assumed field measured in a FAC, neglecting any chamber anomalies. Or is it 3 dB higher?? as in power? From: Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com To: Jim Hulbert jim.hulb...@pb.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 4:29 PM Subject: RE: Semi-Anechoic Chamber Question - Correction Factor Professor Leferink published a nice paper that proposed a different correction factor for a SAC to a FAC. I tried to track it down but had no luck. Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications (w) 303-706-5467 (c) 303-204-2974 (t) 3032042...@vtext.commailto:3032042...@vtext.com (e) charles.gra...@echostar.commailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com (e2) chasgra...@gmail.commailto:chasgra...@gmail.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Hulbert Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:27 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Semi-Anechoic Chamber Question Thank you everyone for the helpful feedback. The consensus is clearly: Save my back and leave the absorber and ferrite tiles in place. Compare radiated emissions measurements in the chamber to those on the OATS (several suggested a comb generator for this purpose). Assign an adjustment factor to the chamber measurements to correlate as closely as possible to the OATS measurements (6dB has been suggested as a reasonable factor, although I need to confirm this through my own measurements). Jim - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher
Re: [PSES] EN 60950-1:2006+A12:2011
Two antennas??? Michael Sundstrom OHD / TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst, EMC Lead 2170 French Settlement Rd, Suite B Dallas, Texas 75212 (214) 579 6312 (940) 390 3644c KB5UKT Albert Einstein once said, The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com] Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 60950-1:2006+A12:2011 One antenna, two antennae is an exception I suppose. As I have told my friends and family many times; I'll learn a second language only after I have mastered English. _ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 12/09/2011 01:28 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 60950-1:2006+A12:2011 In message 72b8947772cf0948adaa9853631663fb64733b3...@pbi-namsg-02.mgdpbi.global.pv t, dated Fri, 9 Dec 2011, Jim Hulbert jim.hulb...@pb.com writes: corrigendums (or is that corrigendi?). Corrigenda. Write out 100 times 'Neuter plural always ends in 'a''. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Quasi-peak
Richard Schultz (of ANSI C63) always told me there were 3 answer to any EMC question asking about 'if' it will affect something? YES NO MAYBE I'd guess Mr. Schultz knew enough to say that! Michael Sundstrom OHD / TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst, EMC Lead 2170 French Settlement Rd, Suite B Dallas, Texas 75212 (214) 579 6312 (940) 390 3644c KB5UKT Albert Einstein once said, The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:22 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Quasi-peak In message 2b83256001484461b5f6adf4c41df...@tamuracorp.com, dated Thu, 1 Dec 2011, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: But the question remains - does this spread-spectrum stuff, for a comparative power level, increase or decrease interference with my master-blaster 5000 remote toilet controller? As is very common with such EMC questions, the answer is a definite 'maybe'. Closely define the environment, separation and the immunity characteristics of your robot loo and you may get a slightly more definite 'maybe'. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] UL assessment of plastics - DC vs AC
Brian, To be honest, who knows why UL does what they do? It appears that for years they have arranged test levels just to be different from IEC or whatever entity. Just my two cents, Michael Sundstrom OHD / TREQ Dallas Electronic Lab Analyst, EMC Lead 2170 French Settlement Rd, Suite B Dallas, Texas 75212 (214) 579 6312 (940) 390 3644c KB5UKT Albert Einstein once said, The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:45 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] UL assessment of plastics - DC vs AC Received a newsletter from UL. Said that they are looking into updating standards to account for DC di-electric withstand vs AC. I can understand that the physics of dc arcing and tracking could be different from ac, but why would the dc di-electric withstand be more onerous than ac? Perhaps they are mixing IR and di-electric withstand, which cannot be considered a similar test. Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Company close down due to EMC phenomena
Guys, I don't think we want to forget that just one of these units will be in use. What would a whole country full of these units do to a mains network? I'd guess it to be very noisy indeed! Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 6:19 AM To: am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Company close down due to EMC phenomena It sounds as though... The instantaneous emissions aren't as high as an EFT burst or other type of transient phenomenon. So, this product causing a hard upset of electronics is probably not a problem. When the conducted emissions limits were set, they were mostly dealing with whether the product would interfere with radio or TV. As a matter of fact, the quasi-peak and average detectors are used in order to simulate the response of the human ear. I'm curious. If you set this product right next to a radio. Would a human being even be able to perceive the 25millisecond burst? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [SMTP:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:17 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Company close down due to EMC phenomena Well, this might be the reality in a case I have been introduced to lately. Case: A company are manufacturing PowerLine Communication products. They communicate via the power lines and a typical link is between a consumer residence and the nearest power station. The products can of course also communicate inside the consumers residence. The communication protocol is called CEBus http://www.cebus.org/which and make use of the frequency band 100kHz-400kHz and the amplitude is approximate 2-5V. A typical length of a transmission is 25ms and occurs approximate one time pr hour. First of all, AFAIK PowerLine Communication and PowerLine Transmission (broadband 1.6MHz-30MHz) are now coming will full force in EU and CENELEC/ETSI are working together regulate this type of transmission path and also coming up with standards. The problem for the manufacturer is the conducted emission requirements in EU. According to the EN55022B levels the maximum quasi-peak emission is 66dBuV@150kHz, and a typical PLC (under transmission) which has been measured, showed the value of 120dBuV (peak). With no transmission it had a margin of 10dB (quasi-peak) and 30dB (average). The radiated emission had a margin of 10dB. Well, conducted emission is the problem when transmitting. But, as I said, the transmission occurs only 25ms/hour. The national authority will not allowed this product to be placed into the marked because it do not fulfil the EN55022B limits (100kHz-400kHz) under transmission mode. No way. Other national authorities have other approaches on this case, they say as long as you do not disturb other equipment, install it. If you do disturb, we will come and remove it. They also say install it even if it does not fulfil EN550022B, but we will remove it if it disturb others. Two completely different approaches as you see. Questions: 1. Is it possible to have different approaches within EU ? 2. Since PLC/PLT is quite new technology and since we do not have any EU product standard (no standard for whose who are using 100kHz-400kHz band), I like the approach as long as you do not disturb other equipment, install it. If you do disturb, we will come and remove it. What is your opinion about this? 3. The transmission occurs very seldom. 25ms/hour, that is 7e-6 and approximate 0,001% transmission rate. Can this seldom transmission rate be an argument to not test the PLC product under continuous transmission ? I would say yes, but which rate is acceptable / reasonable ? So, why should the company close down ? Because if the national authority gets what they want, there will be one sale. Logical, but is it a correct prohibition the authority call? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute:
RE: LISN Calibration
The only problem I see with not calibrating the LISN is you wouldn't know if / or when it goes bad until you cross check it with a calibrated LISN. I would suggest you run your precompliance lab just like the real lab. This way you'll get the same results as the accredited lab you test with. No surprises this way. Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:06 PM To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: LISN Calibration I would say that if it came calibrated from the manufacturer and has not suffered visible damage it should be okay. It is easy to check a few spot frequencies or use a spectrum analyzer with tracking generator or separate sweeping sig gen to check performance. Either way it is not a big deal. on 11/28/01 4:15 PM, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com at marti...@appliedbiosystems.com wrote: We are in the process of setting up a pre-compliance EMC lab. One of the tests that we will be performing is pre-compliance conducted emissions per EN 61326. I realize that since we are only performing pre-compliance measurements that calibration of the LISN is not required. However, do you recommend calibrating the LISN for pre-compliance measurements? If so, why? Your responses are appreciated Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EMC test table construction plans
We use a styrofoam table here at our lab, it is a round plug of styrofoam 80cm tall and 1m across. This has worked the best for us, and it has the least reflections at any frequency we can reliably test at. I would guess that some form of hard material on top of this type of table would support 200lBs. Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Pommerenke, David [mailto:davi...@ece.umr.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 3:16 PM To: 'POWELL, DOUG'; EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: RE: EMC test table construction plans Doug, For emissions and immunity you should not use any wood in the table. It will significantly (+/-2 dB up to 1 GHz for emissions , more above, +/-10 dB for immunity up to 1 GHz) change the test result. My experience has shown that Styrofoam is basicly the best material. There are a couple of published papers on this issue. As surface material the following worked out fine: - Foamed PVC (rather stiff, low dielectric constant due to the foamed nature), maybe 4 mm thick. - PE sheet, maybe 2 mm thick. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: POWELL, DOUG [mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: EMC test table construction plans Hello all, I plan to construct my own insulated EMC test table for a 5 meter chamber. Seems simple enough to do and I could easily come up with something. I thought I might first ask for input from those of you in the discussion group who have experience or maybe even construction plans. Here are some features I want: 1) I will be testing products that weight up to 200 Lbs (91 kg). 2) I want to minimize metalic fastners. 3) I would like to make it a pivoting table (not motorized). 4) Height is 80 cm. 5) The surface should be replacable if it gets badly worn or scarred. I'm thinking of using hardboard. 6) Suggestions on length width? -doug --- Douglas E. Powell, Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Mail stop: 203024 1626 Sharp Point Drive Ft. Collins, CO 80525 970.407.6410 (phone) 970-407.5410 (fax) mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com --- _ This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported
RE: Difference between SA and Receiver
Most analyzers are not CISPR 16 compliant. Receivers are always easer to read QP and Avg. directly. If you can pass the CISPR limits with a peak reading (analyzer), you can most definitely pass the QP / Avg. limits with a receiver. For official testing a compliant (CISPR 16) device is always needed to measure with. Michael Sundstrom NOKIA TCC Dallas / EMC ofc: (972) 374-1462 cell: (817) 917-5021 amateur call: KB5UKT -Original Message- From: ext Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:21 AM To: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz; EMC-PSTC List Subject: Re: Difference between SA and Receiver Assuming 50/60 Hz power and CE measurements made at a CISPR 16 LISN EMI port, the only possible difference I can think of is increased probability of 50/60 Hz overload with a spectrum analyzer capable of measurements that low. If your spectrum analyzer doesn't tune below 9 kHz, that shouldn't be a problem. In any case, the CE limits are such that you can easily afford to put a 20 dB pad on the LISN port and that should stop any overload effect. An EMI receiver provides several features different than an analyzer: increased sensitivity, front end filtering (preselection), and (typically) a variety of detection modes, although spectrum analyzers are catching up in this regards. If you need to make average measurements, this is more easily accomplished with an EMI receiver. -- From: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz mur...@eel.ufsc.br To: EMC-PSTC List emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Difference between SA and Receiver Date: Thu, Nov 1, 2001, 8:15 AM Hello Group, What are the differences that result using: 1. A Spectrum Analyzer (SA) or 2. A Receiver When I make measurements of conducted emissions of an equipment?? Best Regards Muriel --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
