Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[Brian O'Connell]

"...how the part is made?" -> the manufacturing process and technique? Stuff 
from the ASTM has a little of this, but are typically materials test methods 
used to verify the result of the manufacturing process. Otherwise 
'manufacturing' standards seem to be for the assembly of equipment. For 
example, ASTM F2946 does not talk about how to make a pipe seal, but does cover 
materials selection and assembly requirements for some types of seals for 
plastic pipe joins.

There are common tests like melt-flow index that can be done pre and post 
injection to verify the chemical changes of thermoplastic polymers resulting 
from the molding process. These test methods, and the myriad stuff in the UL746 
series, could be indicative of the effectiveness of the manufacturing process, 
whether injection molding or AM.

Some of the environmental standards indirectly effect the manufacturing process 
by eliminating or encouraging a process due to chemical restrictions of 
resultant by-products.

Then there is UL, which seems to have dived into AM during past several years; 
they have AM manufacturing process and technique audits as part of their FUS. 
They seem to be running the ASTM F42 committee. Do not know what TC261 has done 
lately, but both have been active for 5 to 15 years. Travelers' Insurance is 
not saying anything new, they are just now realizing the size and breadth of 
the AM market and want a piece of the pie of something that has been growing 
for about 20 years.

Brian


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 1:56 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts


Hi John A:

Still looking for opinions on the question though - do our Standards consider 
how the part is made?  

Consider the Y capacitor.  It must comply with the requirements in IEC 60384-1. 
 Type and routine tests.  Same as for a finished product.  

Supposedly, routine tests address the consistency of how the part or product is 
made.

Best regards,
Rich 

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Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[Richard Nute]

 

Hi John A:

 

Still looking for opinions on the question though
- do our Standards consider how the part is made?


 

Consider the Y capacitor.  It must comply with the
requirements in IEC 60384-1.  Type and routine
tests.  Same as for a finished product.  

 

Supposedly, routine tests address the consistency
of how the part or product is made.

 

Best regards,

Rich 

 

 

 


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Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

Standards should be evaluating the final part, not how it's made.  It should 
not matter how it's made as long as future parts are made identical to the 
original that was evaluated.  I've never had a lab question or show any 
interest in how a part was manufactured.  They care that there is a 
quality/change control process in place so that products continue to be 
manufactured the same as the original that was evaluated.

I agree that article doesn't really state anything new that wouldn't apply to 
existing parts or manufacturing process.

-Dave

From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 9:26 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts


Hi John,



I agree and their case of risk is a failure in the printer, the the printed 
part.  Still looking for opinions on the question though - do our Standards 
consider how the part is made?  If not, does it matter?  My gut says it doesn't 
matter, our Standards are written to evaluate a design, regardless of how it's 
manufactured.  But is that thinking still valid?





John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.

Your Outsourced Compliance Department(r)

630-238-0188
www.productsafetyinc.com<http://www.productsafetyinc.com/>


IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair

Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance
https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html


From: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 8:17 AM
To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts


None of the cited risks applies exclusively to 3D printed parts. You can just 
delete '3 D printed' everywhere, except in the first case, and it is still true.



The first case is a red herring; the printer failed and caused damage. But if 
it complied with 62368-1 (or maybe 60204-1), the wires would not have come 
loose and/or would not contact the heat source.



With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only

www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh England



Sylvae in aeternum manent.



From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 2:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts



Hi,



The link below is an interesting article on the risks of 3D printed parts.  I 
wonder, however, if it's a mere scare tactic by Travelers for more insurance, 
or is there something more to this?  In theory, the requirements for any part 
(regardless of how it's manufactured) are covered in our Standards, right??



Has anyone ever looked at the requirements from a view of how the part is 
manufactured?  Should we?  How do we know the requirements are adequate 
regardless of the mfg'ring process?  How do we know we're not missing something?



If the link below doesn't work, google Travelers preparing for the risks of 3D 
printing in manufacturing and it should come up.  The article was on linkedin.



https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for-risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Technology-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804=78800898=10907740=CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA



John



John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.

Your Outsourced Compliance Department(r)

630-238-0188

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair

Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance



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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engin

Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[John Woodgate]

I don't see how standards could deal with how parts are made. Where safety
depends on physical strength, standards can include tests to make sure it is
adequate. The same applies where safety depends on, for example, the integrity
of insulation inside components.
 
The preference order for specification in standards is:
 
1. Specify performance - does not restrict innovation;
 
2. Specify design - might not restrict innovation;
 
3. Specify construction - severely limits innovation.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
 <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates
Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 2:26 PM
To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts
 
Hi John,
 
I agree and their case of risk is a failure in the printer, the the printed
part.  Still looking for opinions on the question though - do our Standards
consider how the part is made?  If not, does it matter?  My gut says it doesn't
matter, our Standards are written to evaluate a design, regardless of how it's
manufactured.  But is that thinking still valid?
 
 
John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.
Your Outsourced Compliance DepartmentR
630-238-0188
 <http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> www.productsafetyinc.com
 
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair
Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance
https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html
 
  _  

From: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com <mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com> >
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 8:17 AM
To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: RE: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts 
 
None of the cited risks applies exclusively to 3D printed parts. You can just
delete '3 D printed' everywhere, except in the first case, and it is still true.

 
The first case is a red herring; the printer failed and caused damage. But if it
complied with 62368-1 (or maybe 60204-1), the wires would not have come loose
and/or would not contact the heat source.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
 <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates
Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 2:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts
 
Hi,
 
The link below is an interesting article on the risks of 3D printed parts.  I
wonder, however, if it's a mere scare tactic by Travelers for more insurance, or
is there something more to this?  In theory, the requirements for any part
(regardless of how it's manufactured) are covered in our Standards, right??
 
Has anyone ever looked at the requirements from a view of how the part is
manufactured?  Should we?  How do we know the requirements are adequate
regardless of the mfg'ring process?  How do we know we're not missing something?
 
If the link below doesn't work, google Travelers preparing for the risks of 3D
printing in manufacturing and it should come up.  The article was on linkedin.
 
https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for-
risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS
<https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for
-risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Techno
logy-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804=78800898=10907740=
CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA>
_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Technology-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804&
cid=78800898=10907740=CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA
 
John
 
John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.
Your Outsourced Compliance DepartmentR
630-238-0188
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair
Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance
 
-

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Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[John Woodgate]

None of the cited risks applies exclusively to 3D printed parts. You can just
delete '3 D printed' everywhere, except in the first case, and it is still true.

 
The first case is a red herring; the printer failed and caused damage. But if it
complied with 62368-1 (or maybe 60204-1), the wires would not have come loose
and/or would not contact the heat source.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
 <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates
Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 2:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts
 
Hi,
 
The link below is an interesting article on the risks of 3D printed parts.  I
wonder, however, if it's a mere scare tactic by Travelers for more insurance, or
is there something more to this?  In theory, the requirements for any part
(regardless of how it's manufactured) are covered in our Standards, right??
 
Has anyone ever looked at the requirements from a view of how the part is
manufactured?  Should we?  How do we know the requirements are adequate
regardless of the mfg'ring process?  How do we know we're not missing something?
 
If the link below doesn't work, google Travelers preparing for the risks of 3D
printing in manufacturing and it should come up.  The article was on linkedin.
 
https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for-
risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS
<https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for
-risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Techno
logy-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804=78800898=10907740=
CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA>
_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Technology-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804&
cid=78800898=10907740=CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA
 
John
 
John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.
Your Outsourced Compliance DepartmentR
630-238-0188
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair
Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance
 
-

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[PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[John Allen]

Hi,


The link below is an interesting article on the risks of 3D printed parts.  I 
wonder, however, if it's a mere scare tactic by Travelers for more insurance, 
or is there something more to this?  In theory, the requirements for any part 
(regardless of how it's manufactured) are covered in our Standards, right??


Has anyone ever looked at the requirements from a view of how the part is 
manufactured?  Should we?  How do we know the requirements are adequate 
regardless of the mfg'ring process?  How do we know we're not missing something?


If the link below doesn't work, google Travelers preparing for the risks of 3D 
printing in manufacturing and it should come up.  The article was on linkedin.


https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for-risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Technology-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804=78800898=10907740=CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA


John


John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.

Your Outsourced Compliance Department®

630-238-0188

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair

Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

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Jim Bacher:  
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