Re: [PSES] Battery Charger
Hello Mark, This is more of a customer acceptance issue in North America when handling DC powered battery chargers. Do you want NRTL Listing for product liability protection reasons? Do your customers expect it? If so, you may want to have your battery charger NRTL Listed as an accessory to your main product, and the battery charger would likely be tested to the same standard. An AHJ wandering the factory floor of one of your customers might look for an NRTL mark on the charger, but they also might be happy with the NRTL mark on the EPS. A strict reading of OSHA regulations would likely be interpreted to mean that any electrical product needs to be NRTL Listed, but this is generally not the case. Your cell phone has a built-in battery charger and it is almost certainly not NRTL Listed. A 12 VDC charger with no radios would likely fall under the General Product Safety Directive in Europe. I would be advisable to have a report showing safety to the host product's applicable standard to demonstrate compliance with the essential requirements of the Directive. Having safety approval from a European NCB would again likely be a customer acceptance issue. If your host product has a built-in battery charger, I presume that you are already familiar with the energy requirements. These are proliferating in North America for battery chargers and can be more of a challenge to track than the safety requirements for the chargers. Ted Eckert Microsoft Corporation The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Schmidt, Mark [mailto:markschm...@xrite.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Battery Charger Hello Group, I am trying to understand which standard would be applicable for a single Li-on battery charger. It would be powered by an existing 12 VDC LPS that already has all the required regulatory evaluations and markings on it. We already use this EPS on many of the products that we currently have safety reports on and are Listed. This battery charger would be for charging an additional lithium-ion battery (7.4V, 2600 mAh) that we use with some of our existing products. Our products have their own charge circuitry but the marketing guys want to have an independent charger source so the end user can just pop in a fully charged battery when needed. Our devices are used on a lot of factory floors (battery powered). They typically only use the EPS to charge their battery in the device when the leave for the day or maybe at lunch or whatever. This new charger's construction would be a plastic (94V-1), operate at 12 VDC input, output ~8.4 VDC 1A for charging one battery pack at a time. The PCB would be FR4, 94V0 material. Standard center-pin/barrel type power plug from the LPS. It would be designed CEC compliant; some minor circuitry for charge control most protection is in the 2 cell battery pack. Would have LED indicator(s) for charge status. Size: approximately 5" x 3" x 2" Are there any battery charger standards that may be applicable? Does this battery charger need to be Listed or Recognized by NRTL. Any thoughts or inputs are welcome? Regards, Mark Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying to the sender and delete this message. The sender disclaims that the content of this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of, any agreement; provided that the foregoing does not invalidate the binding effect of any digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is included in any attachment. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Cc8cf6ca1dee24be79d4108d5003a0e10%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636415171701044917&sdata=0Glzek1Mc6z3CJ4vjgUJJHbPADXH6tpS16IniNoc9ko%3D&reserved=0> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Cc8cf6ca1dee24be79d4108d5003a0e10%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636415171701044917&sdata=Uf4%2Fjx6z5VyNUBXF9jGckaDzK3Ml3ts0VGDdTmyW%2Bgc%3D&reserved=0> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://na01.safeli
Re: [PSES] Battery Charger
Hello Brian, This was defined by a NRTL to be a Class III battery charger. Thank you, Mark From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 1:55 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery Charger From: Schmidt, Mark [mailto:markschm...@xrite.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Battery Charger Hello Group, I am trying to understand which standard would be applicable for a single Li-on battery charger. It would be powered by an existing 12 VDC LPS that already has all the required regulatory evaluations and markings on it. We already use this EPS on many of the products that we currently have safety reports on and are Listed. This battery charger would be for charging an additional lithium-ion battery (7.4V, 2600 mAh) that we use with some of our existing products. Our products have their own charge circuitry but the marketing guys want to have an independent charger source so the end user can just pop in a fully charged battery when needed. Our devices are used on a lot of factory floors (battery powered). They typically only use the EPS to charge their battery in the device when the leave for the day or maybe at lunch or whatever. This new charger's construction would be a plastic (94V-1), operate at 12 VDC input, output ~8.4 VDC 1A for charging one battery pack at a time. The PCB would be FR4, 94V0 material. Standard center-pin/barrel type power plug from the LPS. It would be designed CEC compliant; some minor circuitry for charge control most protection is in the 2 cell battery pack. Would have LED indicator(s) for charge status. Size: approximately 5" x 3" x 2" Are there any battery charger standards that may be applicable? Yes, there are several scoped standards. Does this battery charger need to be Listed or Recognized by NRTL. Per OSHA, not if Class III equipment and marked with power supply requirements and battery delimiters. There are some 'typical' industrial and civil and military environments where it would be considered pro forma for this type of equipment to bear a NRTL mark. End-use equipment shall not be 'recognized' per the meaning of a scoped UL CCN. Any thoughts or inputs are welcome? Design for the eventuality that a battery WILL self ignite. Design for safe charge currents and voltages for any charger single-fault condition. Hire or contract with someone that has done this several times as a corporate compliance engineer. Few NRTL engineers understand battery charger topologies, and fewer understand both the software and hardware. No, I will not review your design, but there are several grey-beards (ok they do not really have beards, but are wiser than myself) that reside within the virtual walls of this listserv whom do contract work. Regards, Mark - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html&d=DwMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=B7DYHqv_Zv1_xzbzRQO9N9jr7r3CeRa1oiRLRXa0_og&s=axyhG6BezIXr5MHN_XFKqPqYyTbo2B5ZKVIh2CBBGog&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_&d=DwMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=B7DYHqv_Zv1_xzbzRQO9N9jr7r3CeRa1oiRLRXa0_og&s=jUR02WqiT9f3BLOnkM6jveBBN7TlSV-vWQppXRaaiTs&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d=DwMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=B7DYHqv_Zv1_xzbzRQO9N9jr7r3CeRa1oiRLRXa0_og&s=wT6DSB45mFNeO7C_VAKLNahmG3xgz70CMEGf7v-9fx8&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html&d=DwMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=B7DYHqv_Zv1_xzbzRQO9N9jr7r3CeRa1oiRLRXa0_og&s=omPBXfjGIeCZEcHEGcHl6u2RuvcRL6pVWBe7RR5XyZo&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.h
Re: [PSES] Battery Charger
Thanks Ted, Appreciate the input. The plan for Europe was to test to IEC60335-2-29 for HOUSEHOLD AND SIMILAR ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES - SAFETY Part 2-29: Particular requirements for battery chargers, for applied due diligence. I think it makes sense for my customer to drive the direction so thanks for that. In talking with some NRTL's and the direction they believe is appropriate can lead/mislead you down a path that may not be logical one. Thanks again, Mark From: Ted Eckert [mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 12:21 PM To: Schmidt, Mark; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Battery Charger Hello Mark, This is more of a customer acceptance issue in North America when handling DC powered battery chargers. Do you want NRTL Listing for product liability protection reasons? Do your customers expect it? If so, you may want to have your battery charger NRTL Listed as an accessory to your main product, and the battery charger would likely be tested to the same standard. An AHJ wandering the factory floor of one of your customers might look for an NRTL mark on the charger, but they also might be happy with the NRTL mark on the EPS. A strict reading of OSHA regulations would likely be interpreted to mean that any electrical product needs to be NRTL Listed, but this is generally not the case. Your cell phone has a built-in battery charger and it is almost certainly not NRTL Listed. A 12 VDC charger with no radios would likely fall under the General Product Safety Directive in Europe. I would be advisable to have a report showing safety to the host product's applicable standard to demonstrate compliance with the essential requirements of the Directive. Having safety approval from a European NCB would again likely be a customer acceptance issue. If your host product has a built-in battery charger, I presume that you are already familiar with the energy requirements. These are proliferating in North America for battery chargers and can be more of a challenge to track than the safety requirements for the chargers. Ted Eckert Microsoft Corporation The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Schmidt, Mark [mailto:markschm...@xrite.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Battery Charger Hello Group, I am trying to understand which standard would be applicable for a single Li-on battery charger. It would be powered by an existing 12 VDC LPS that already has all the required regulatory evaluations and markings on it. We already use this EPS on many of the products that we currently have safety reports on and are Listed. This battery charger would be for charging an additional lithium-ion battery (7.4V, 2600 mAh) that we use with some of our existing products. Our products have their own charge circuitry but the marketing guys want to have an independent charger source so the end user can just pop in a fully charged battery when needed. Our devices are used on a lot of factory floors (battery powered). They typically only use the EPS to charge their battery in the device when the leave for the day or maybe at lunch or whatever. This new charger's construction would be a plastic (94V-1), operate at 12 VDC input, output ~8.4 VDC 1A for charging one battery pack at a time. The PCB would be FR4, 94V0 material. Standard center-pin/barrel type power plug from the LPS. It would be designed CEC compliant; some minor circuitry for charge control most protection is in the 2 cell battery pack. Would have LED indicator(s) for charge status. Size: approximately 5" x 3" x 2" Are there any battery charger standards that may be applicable? Does this battery charger need to be Listed or Recognized by NRTL. Any thoughts or inputs are welcome? Regards, Mark Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying to the sender and delete this message. The sender disclaims that the content of this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of, any agreement; provided that the foregoing does not invalidate the binding effect of any digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is included in any attachment. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.ieee-2Dpses.org-252Femc-2Dpstc.html-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cted.eckert-2540micro
Re: [PSES] Battery Charger
From: Schmidt, Mark [mailto:markschm...@xrite.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Battery Charger Hello Group, I am trying to understand which standard would be applicable for a single Li-on battery charger. It would be powered by an existing 12 VDC LPS that already has all the required regulatory evaluations and markings on it. We already use this EPS on many of the products that we currently have safety reports on and are Listed. This battery charger would be for charging an additional lithium-ion battery (7.4V, 2600 mAh) that we use with some of our existing products. Our products have their own charge circuitry but the marketing guys want to have an independent charger source so the end user can just pop in a fully charged battery when needed. Our devices are used on a lot of factory floors (battery powered). They typically only use the EPS to charge their battery in the device when the leave for the day or maybe at lunch or whatever. This new charger's construction would be a plastic (94V-1), operate at 12 VDC input, output ~8.4 VDC 1A for charging one battery pack at a time. The PCB would be FR4, 94V0 material. Standard center-pin/barrel type power plug from the LPS. It would be designed CEC compliant; some minor circuitry for charge control most protection is in the 2 cell battery pack. Would have LED indicator(s) for charge status. Size: approximately 5" x 3" x 2" Are there any battery charger standards that may be applicable? Yes, there are several scoped standards. Does this battery charger need to be Listed or Recognized by NRTL. Per OSHA, not if Class III equipment and marked with power supply requirements and battery delimiters. There are some 'typical' industrial and civil and military environments where it would be considered pro forma for this type of equipment to bear a NRTL mark. End-use equipment shall not be 'recognized' per the meaning of a scoped UL CCN. Any thoughts or inputs are welcome? Design for the eventuality that a battery WILL self ignite. Design for safe charge currents and voltages for any charger single-fault condition. Hire or contract with someone that has done this several times as a corporate compliance engineer. Few NRTL engineers understand battery charger topologies, and fewer understand both the software and hardware. No, I will not review your design, but there are several grey-beards (ok they do not really have beards, but are wiser than myself) that reside within the virtual walls of this listserv whom do contract work. Regards, Mark - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Battery Charger
Hello Group, I am trying to understand which standard would be applicable for a single Li-on battery charger. It would be powered by an existing 12 VDC LPS that already has all the required regulatory evaluations and markings on it. We already use this EPS on many of the products that we currently have safety reports on and are Listed. This battery charger would be for charging an additional lithium-ion battery (7.4V, 2600 mAh) that we use with some of our existing products. Our products have their own charge circuitry but the marketing guys want to have an independent charger source so the end user can just pop in a fully charged battery when needed. Our devices are used on a lot of factory floors (battery powered). They typically only use the EPS to charge their battery in the device when the leave for the day or maybe at lunch or whatever. This new charger's construction would be a plastic (94V-1), operate at 12 VDC input, output ~8.4 VDC 1A for charging one battery pack at a time. The PCB would be FR4, 94V0 material. Standard center-pin/barrel type power plug from the LPS. It would be designed CEC compliant; some minor circuitry for charge control most protection is in the 2 cell battery pack. Would have LED indicator(s) for charge status. Size: approximately 5" x 3" x 2" Are there any battery charger standards that may be applicable? Does this battery charger need to be Listed or Recognized by NRTL. Any thoughts or inputs are welcome? Regards, Mark Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying to the sender and delete this message. The sender disclaims that the content of this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of, any agreement; provided that the foregoing does not invalidate the binding effect of any digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is included in any attachment. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Battery charger for EMCO 6502 loop antenna
EMC Compliance has an Eaton 96020 loop, which is just a re-badged EMCO 6502, and a Radio Shack 12 Vdc, 500 mA charger works just fine. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Shawn Singh Reply-To: Shawn Singh Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:19:05 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Battery charger for EMCO 6502 loop antenna Hi All, I need to purchase a battery charger for EMCO 6502 loop antenna. I am not sure who will sell the charger. If you know where I can purchase one please let me know. Thanks, Shawn - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher David Heald - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Battery charger for EMCO 6502 loop antenna
ETS Lindgren? Ghery S. Pettit From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Shawn Singh Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 2:19 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Battery charger for EMCO 6502 loop antenna Hi All, I need to purchase a battery charger for EMCO 6502 loop antenna. I am not sure who will sell the charger. If you know where I can purchase one please let me know. Thanks, Shawn - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Battery charger for EMCO 6502 loop antenna
Hi All, I need to purchase a battery charger for EMCO 6502 loop antenna. I am not sure who will sell the charger. If you know where I can purchase one please let me know. Thanks, Shawn - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
