Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

2013-10-07 Thread Bell, Chad
Yes it was KDB number 981555.  But, as mentioned the specific question was for 
detachable power cables.  That being said I have personally witnessed many 
products with detachable cables with loose ferrites in the box for the customer 
to install especially on recent televisions.

-Chad

From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:25 PM
To: Bell, Chad; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

Was this response on the KDB, the Knowledge Data Base?
If so, what is the number?
That is where the FCC makes rulings on a near day to day bases.
And those reasons are very similar to the ones given for the EU requirement.



From: Bell, Chad chad_b...@bose.commailto:chad_b...@bose.com
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

Gary,

Here is the response from the FCC on the same question except we asked about 
adding a ferrite on the power cable.

“The power cord with ferrite snaps and clamps for conducted emission compliance 
has got to be supplied as one unit. That is to say, the ferrite snaps and 
clamps must be incorporated into the power cord such that the purchaser of the 
electronic device does not have to put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power 
cord when he or she is assembling the device for operation.  The reason is that 
the FCC's historically knows that the buyer or purchaser of the electronic 
device will not put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power cord and as a 
result the manufacturer must incorporate it into the power cord.”

Sincerely,
Chad Bell

From: Myers, Gary [mailto:gary.my...@xerox.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

EMC Experts,
If an ITE product requires a ferrite on an external LAN cable in order to 
comply with FCC Part 15 and EU EMC Directive requirements, is it legally 
required that the manufacturer include the LAN cable fitted with the ferrite 
with the ITE product, or can the manufacturer simply provide the ferrite along 
with detailed installation instructions for the end user to add the ferrite to 
his own LAN cable?
Thanks,
Gary Myers

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Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

2013-10-07 Thread Sykes, Bob
The KDB *supplements* the Part 15 Rules.  I would start with Part 15.27.
Also consider who is installing the equipment.  Consumer or Professional?
-Bob


From: Bell, Chad [mailto:chad_b...@bose.com]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:54 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

Yes it was KDB number 981555.  But, as mentioned the specific question was for 
detachable power cables.  That being said I have personally witnessed many 
products with detachable cables with loose ferrites in the box for the customer 
to install especially on recent televisions.

-Chad

From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:25 PM
To: Bell, Chad; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

Was this response on the KDB, the Knowledge Data Base?
If so, what is the number?
That is where the FCC makes rulings on a near day to day bases.
And those reasons are very similar to the ones given for the EU requirement.



From: Bell, Chad chad_b...@bose.commailto:chad_b...@bose.com
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

Gary,

Here is the response from the FCC on the same question except we asked about 
adding a ferrite on the power cable.

“The power cord with ferrite snaps and clamps for conducted emission compliance 
has got to be supplied as one unit. That is to say, the ferrite snaps and 
clamps must be incorporated into the power cord such that the purchaser of the 
electronic device does not have to put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power 
cord when he or she is assembling the device for operation.  The reason is that 
the FCC's historically knows that the buyer or purchaser of the electronic 
device will not put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power cord and as a 
result the manufacturer must incorporate it into the power cord.”

Sincerely,
Chad Bell

From: Myers, Gary [mailto:gary.my...@xerox.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

EMC Experts,
If an ITE product requires a ferrite on an external LAN cable in order to 
comply with FCC Part 15 and EU EMC Directive requirements, is it legally 
required that the manufacturer include the LAN cable fitted with the ferrite 
with the ITE product, or can the manufacturer simply provide the ferrite along 
with detailed installation instructions for the end user to add the ferrite to 
his own LAN cable?
Thanks,
Gary Myers

-

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emc-p

[PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

2013-10-04 Thread Myers, Gary
EMC Experts,
If an ITE product requires a ferrite on an external LAN cable in order to 
comply with FCC Part 15 and EU EMC Directive requirements, is it legally 
required that the manufacturer include the LAN cable fitted with the ferrite 
with the ITE product, or can the manufacturer simply provide the ferrite along 
with detailed installation instructions for the end user to add the ferrite to 
his own LAN cable?
Thanks,
Gary Myers


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Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

2013-10-04 Thread John Woodgate
In message 
b663bfa8769f0c478865f765ed1d17d319de0...@usa7109mb006.na.xerox.net, 
dated Fri, 4 Oct 2013, Myers, Gary gary.my...@xerox.com writes:


If an ITE product requires a ferrite on an external LAN cable in order 
to comply with FCC Part 15 and EU EMC Directive requirements, is it 
legally required that the manufacturer include the LAN cable fitted 
with the ferrite with the ITE product, or can the manufacturer simply 
provide the ferrite along with detailed installation instructions for 
the end user to add the ferrite to his own LAN cable?


Legal requirements don't go down to such details. This is where your EMC 
Assessment file comes in. You explain in it what you have done - 
provided the ferrite and explained how to use it. In the unlikely event 
of an investigation, you have exercised due diligence.


I would suggest a form of magic words for the instructions:

 'For continued conformity with EMC regulations, a LAN cable with a 
ferrite filter is required. If your LAN cable does not have such a 
filter, it is essential to install the filter provided.'

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all
give the same information.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

2013-10-04 Thread Bell, Chad
Gary,

Here is the response from the FCC on the same question except we asked about 
adding a ferrite on the power cable.

The power cord with ferrite snaps and clamps for conducted emission compliance 
has got to be supplied as one unit. That is to say, the ferrite snaps and 
clamps must be incorporated into the power cord such that the purchaser of the 
electronic device does not have to put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power 
cord when he or she is assembling the device for operation.  The reason is that 
the FCC's historically knows that the buyer or purchaser of the electronic 
device will not put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power cord and as a 
result the manufacturer must incorporate it into the power cord.

Sincerely,
Chad Bell

From: Myers, Gary [mailto:gary.my...@xerox.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

EMC Experts,
If an ITE product requires a ferrite on an external LAN cable in order to 
comply with FCC Part 15 and EU EMC Directive requirements, is it legally 
required that the manufacturer include the LAN cable fitted with the ferrite 
with the ITE product, or can the manufacturer simply provide the ferrite along 
with detailed installation instructions for the end user to add the ferrite to 
his own LAN cable?
Thanks,
Gary Myers

-


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Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

2013-10-04 Thread John Woodgate
In message 
830f86aca6c04c0aa3791601703cb...@bl2pr08mb273.namprd08.prod.outlook.com

, dated Fri, 4 Oct 2013, Bell, Chad chad_b...@bose.com writes:

Here is the response from the FCC on the same question except we asked 
about adding a ferrite on the power cable.


That may be OK for a power cable, as they are usually fairly short and 
provided with the product anyway. But surely it's impracticable for a 
LAN cable, that could be 500 m long!

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all
give the same information.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

2013-10-04 Thread Kunde, Brian
I agree with John (as I usually do).

We purchased an electronic device a few years ago in the US and it came is a 
bag of snap-on ferrite beads and instructions to what cables they had to be put 
on; even though not all the cables were provided. For instance, if I used a USB 
printer then one of the beads where to go on the USB cable.

I have seen instructions for electronic devices that require the customer to 
purchase shielded I/O cables. I've even seen where shielded Ethernet cables are 
required (usually short jumper cables between server and switch).

I used to work for a PC company and the rule was No Ferrite Beads on I/O cables 
because Marketing says it gives the appearance of a low quality product, but 
today is not unusual to see two or three cables on your PC with molded ferrite 
beads.

What more can be expected from any company than to provide the means and 
instructions to their customer on how to setup and use the product so it is 
compliant to the FCC regulations?

IMHO

The Other Brian




-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 9:29 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

In message
830f86aca6c04c0aa3791601703cb...@bl2pr08mb273.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
, dated Fri, 4 Oct 2013, Bell, Chad chad_b...@bose.com writes:

Here is the response from the FCC on the same question except we asked
about adding a ferrite on the power cable.

That may be OK for a power cable, as they are usually fairly short and provided 
with the product anyway. But surely it's impracticable for a LAN cable, that 
could be 500 m long!
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk If 
dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all give 
the same information.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

2013-10-04 Thread Anthony Thomson
Hello Gary,

I know Panasonic supply clip-on ferrite cores with some of their TV's with the 
instruction to fit them to certain cables the end user plugs into the TV.

This would seem a sensible approach where the manufacturer doesn't supply all 
the cables that will be plugged into their product but where they know their 
product may conduct EMI from those ports.

Your scenario seems like a perfect example of this. You wouldn't expect to 
receive LAN cables with a PC but if you know you emit from that port then you 
provide the user with the means to suppress those emissions.

Just my thoughts...
T
- Original Message -
From: Myers, Gary
Sent: 10/04/13 01:11 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

EMC Experts,
If an ITE product requires a ferrite on an external LAN cable in order to 
comply with FCC Part 15 and EU EMC Directive requirements, is it legally 
required that the manufacturer include the LAN cable fitted with the ferrite 
with the ITE product, or can the manufacturer simply provide the ferrite along 
with detailed installation instructions for the end user to add the ferrite to 
his own LAN cable? 
Thanks,
Gary Myers

-

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Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable

2013-10-04 Thread Bill Owsley
Was this response on the KDB, the Knowledge Data Base?
If so, what is the number?
That is where the FCC makes rulings on a near day to day bases.
And those reasons are very similar to the ones given for the EU requirement.





 From: Bell, Chad chad_b...@bose.com
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable
 


Gary,
 
Here is the response from the FCC on the same question except we asked about 
adding a ferrite on the power cable.
 
“The power cord with ferrite snaps and clamps for conducted emission 
compliance has got to be supplied as one unit. That is to say, the ferrite 
snaps and clamps must be incorporated into the power cord such that the 
purchaser of the electronic device does not have to put the ferrite snap or 
clamp onto the power cord when he or she is assembling the device for 
operation.  The reason is that the FCC's historically knows that the buyer or 
purchaser of the electronic device will not put the ferrite snap or clamp onto 
the power cord and as a result the manufacturer must incorporate it into the 
power cord.”
 
Sincerely,
Chad Bell
 
From: Myers, Gary [mailto:gary.my...@xerox.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable
 
EMC Experts,
If an ITE product requires a ferrite on an external LAN cable in order to 
comply with FCC Part 15 and EU EMC Directive requirements, is it legally 
required that the manufacturer include the LAN cable fitted with the ferrite 
with the ITE product, or can the manufacturer simply provide the ferrite along 
with detailed installation instructions for the end user to add the ferrite to 
his own LAN cable? 
Thanks,
Gary Myers
 
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