[PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3
Thanks everyone for your replies. The consensus is that every symbol needs to be explained in the owner's manual. Thanks, Michael Sundstrom Garmin Compliance Engineer 2-2606 (913) 440-1540 Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the fulfillment of your highest potential. -- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb, authors CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3
I have a question about interpretation of this clause: 1.7.1.3 Use of graphical symbols Graphical symbols placed on the equipment, whether required by this standard or not, shall be in accordance with IEC 60417 or ISO 3864-2 or ISO 7000, if available. In the absence of suitable symbols, the manufacturer may design specific graphical symbols. Symbols placed on the equipment shall be explained in the user manual. This clause can be interpreted two ways (maybe more): All symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual. Or Only made up symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual. I'd really like input on this, what was the intent of this added statement? Thanks, Michael Sundstrom Garmin Compliance Engineer 2-2606 (913) 440-1540 Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the fulfillment of your highest potential. -- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb, authors CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3
It seems to me the only reasonable interpretation is A (All symbols). If that were *not* the correct answer it would imply either 1) the IEC/ISO symbols were perfectly self-explanatory (and I think they are not), or 2) that users of the product would know to go to the specific IEC/ISO standards (after paying for them) to look up their meaning (not a very reasonable expectation). Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Sundstrom, Mike [mailto:mike.sundst...@garmin.com] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 3:09 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3 I have a question about interpretation of this clause: 1.7.1.3 Use of graphical symbols Graphical symbols placed on the equipment, whether required by this standard or not, shall be in accordance with IEC 60417 or ISO 3864-2 or ISO 7000, if available. In the absence of suitable symbols, the manufacturer may design specific graphical symbols. Symbols placed on the equipment shall be explained in the user manual. This clause can be interpreted two ways (maybe more): All symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual. Or Only made up symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual. I'd really like input on this, what was the intent of this added statement? Thanks, Michael Sundstrom Garmin Compliance Engineer 2-2606 (913) 440-1540 Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the fulfillment of your highest potential. -- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb, authors CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3
Mike, In my experiences with more than one certifying agency, ALL safety symbols and safety markings on a product must be explained in the user documents. I personally think this includes things like the RoHS wheelie bin. Any safety symbols which you have designed may need additional clarification. In addition, of those symbols you have designed and are not part of safety function should not be confused with any safety function. thanks, -doug Douglas E Powell http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Crane, Lauren lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com wrote: It seems to me the only reasonable interpretation is A (All symbols). If that were **not** the correct answer it would imply either 1) the IEC/ISO symbols were perfectly self-explanatory (and I think they are not), or 2) that users of the product would know to go to the specific IEC/ISO standards (after paying for them) to look up their meaning (not a very reasonable expectation). Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor *From:* Sundstrom, Mike [mailto:mike.sundst...@garmin.com] *Sent:* Thursday, August 14, 2014 3:09 PM *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject:* [PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3 I have a question about interpretation of this clause: *1.7.1.3 Use of graphical symbols* Graphical symbols placed on the equipment, whether required by this standard or not, shall be in accordance with IEC 60417 or ISO 3864-2 or ISO 7000, if available. In the absence of suitable symbols, the manufacturer may design specific graphical symbols. Symbols placed on the equipment shall be explained in the user manual. This clause can be interpreted two ways (maybe more): All symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual. Or Only made up symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual. I'd really like input on this, what was the intent of this added statement? Thanks, Michael Sundstrom Garmin Compliance Engineer 2-2606 (913) 440-1540 *Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the fulfillment of your highest potential.* -- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb, authors -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@radiusnorth.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com Skype: doug.powell52 http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety
Re: [PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3
I found no CTL Decision Sheets or interpretations on this issue. I didn't find a UL PAG either. In practice, symbols found in IEC 60417 are typically not explained in the manual. Symbols 5031 and 5032 are commonly used for direct current and alternating current but are rarely covered in manuals. I see symbol 5172 on power supplies regularly to indicate double/reinforced insulation, but it isn't usually described in user manuals. On, off and standby are symbols 5007, 5008 and 5009 and they are rarely described in text. That being said, I agree with Lauren's assessment. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.commailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 1:21 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3 It seems to me the only reasonable interpretation is A (All symbols). If that were *not* the correct answer it would imply either 1) the IEC/ISO symbols were perfectly self-explanatory (and I think they are not), or 2) that users of the product would know to go to the specific IEC/ISO standards (after paying for them) to look up their meaning (not a very reasonable expectation). Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Sundstrom, Mike [mailto:mike.sundst...@garmin.com] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 3:09 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3 I have a question about interpretation of this clause: 1.7.1.3 Use of graphical symbols Graphical symbols placed on the equipment, whether required by this standard or not, shall be in accordance with IEC 60417 or ISO 3864-2 or ISO 7000, if available. In the absence of suitable symbols, the manufacturer may design specific graphical symbols. Symbols placed on the equipment shall be explained in the user manual. This clause can be interpreted two ways (maybe more): All symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual. Or Only made up symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual. I'd really like input on this, what was the intent of this added statement? Thanks, Michael Sundstrom Garmin Compliance Engineer 2-2606 (913) 440-1540 Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the fulfillment of your highest potential. -- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb, authors CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list
