Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
Thank you very much. Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2019-01-01 02:17, T.Sato wrote: John, On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 17:42:39 +, John Woodgate wrote: Hello, Sato-san. Since mains outlets rarely have PE terminals, is the built-in wiring in homes also just 2-core (no PEC) for 100 V and 3-core (no PEC) for 200 V? These days, o 200 V outlets (typically used for high-power equipment such as air conditioners, cloth dryers and IH cookers) and those cables usually have PE conductors o some 100 V appliances such as air conditioners, cloth washers, refrigerator, shower toilets also require PE, and outlets for those places typically have PE terminals (2-core outlets with a separate earth terminal, or 3-core outlets) and wired with 3-core cables o other most outlets usually have no PE, and those cables may or may not have PE conditioners Regards, Tom - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
John, On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 17:42:39 +, John Woodgate wrote: > Hello, Sato-san. Since mains outlets rarely have PE terminals, is the > built-in wiring in homes also just 2-core (no PEC) for 100 V and > 3-core (no PEC) for 200 V? These days, o 200 V outlets (typically used for high-power equipment such as air conditioners, cloth dryers and IH cookers) and those cables usually have PE conductors o some 100 V appliances such as air conditioners, cloth washers, refrigerator, shower toilets also require PE, and outlets for those places typically have PE terminals (2-core outlets with a separate earth terminal, or 3-core outlets) and wired with 3-core cables o other most outlets usually have no PE, and those cables may or may not have PE conditioners Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
Hello, Sato-san. Since mains outlets rarely have PE terminals, is the built-in wiring in homes also just 2-core (no PEC) for 100 V and 3-core (no PEC) for 200 V? Best wishes for a happy and prosperous New Year. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-12-07 14:04, T.Sato wrote: John, On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 10:54:18 +, John Woodgate wrote: In Japan, are 3-core (L, N, PE) mains leads widely used for single-phase products or are the majority of products safety Class II, with just L and N? At least for household products, majority of products are Class 0 and some specific products such as cloth washers are Class 0I. Here in Japan, mains outlets in homes rarely have PE terminals. Some products such as air conditioners sometimes rated for 200 V, in that case they often have 3-core mains cords. Regards, Tom - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
Yes, it helps. Arigato. Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-12-07 22:50, John Allen wrote: Tom Thanks, and so not what I had thought - however, that does clarify the situation and hopefully has answered John W's question. John E Allen West London, UK -Original Message- From: T.Sato [mailto:vef00...@nifty.com] Sent: 07 December 2018 22:35 To: john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads John, On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:40:26 -, "John Allen" wrote: Ref those 200V products: are they single phase 2-wire (Neutral + Live) + Ground, OR split-phase (100V on each of 2 Live legs) + Neutral return? (IIRC, it is the latter - probably introduced as a result of North American influence where that configuration is common for high consumption appliances). 200 V rated products and 200 V outlets usually use 2-wires (L + L) + PE, although 200 V distributions have 3-wires (L + N + L) + PE so that both 200 V and 100 V equipment can be powered. Regards, Tom - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
Tom Thanks, and so not what I had thought - however, that does clarify the situation and hopefully has answered John W's question. John E Allen West London, UK -Original Message- From: T.Sato [mailto:vef00...@nifty.com] Sent: 07 December 2018 22:35 To: john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads John, On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:40:26 -, "John Allen" wrote: > Ref those 200V products: are they single phase 2-wire (Neutral + Live) + > Ground, OR split-phase (100V on each of 2 Live legs) + Neutral return? > (IIRC, it is the latter - probably introduced as a result of North American > influence where that configuration is common for high consumption > appliances). 200 V rated products and 200 V outlets usually use 2-wires (L + L) + PE, although 200 V distributions have 3-wires (L + N + L) + PE so that both 200 V and 100 V equipment can be powered. Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp > -Original Message- > From: T.Sato [mailto:vef00...@nifty.com] > Sent: 07 December 2018 14:04 > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads > > John, > > On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 10:54:18 +, > John Woodgate wrote: > >> In Japan, are 3-core (L, N, PE) mains leads widely used for >> single-phase products or are the majority of products safety Class II, >> with just L and N? > > At least for household products, majority of products are Class 0 > and some specific products such as cloth washers are Class 0I. > > Here in Japan, mains outlets in homes rarely have PE terminals. > > Some products such as air conditioners sometimes rated for 200 V, > in that case they often have 3-core mains cords. > > Regards, > Tom > > -- > Tomonori Sato > URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
John, On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:40:26 -, "John Allen" wrote: > Ref those 200V products: are they single phase 2-wire (Neutral + Live) + > Ground, OR split-phase (100V on each of 2 Live legs) + Neutral return? > (IIRC, it is the latter - probably introduced as a result of North American > influence where that configuration is common for high consumption > appliances). 200 V rated products and 200 V outlets usually use 2-wires (L + L) + PE, although 200 V distributions have 3-wires (L + N + L) + PE so that both 200 V and 100 V equipment can be powered. Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp > -Original Message- > From: T.Sato [mailto:vef00...@nifty.com] > Sent: 07 December 2018 14:04 > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads > > John, > > On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 10:54:18 +, > John Woodgate wrote: > >> In Japan, are 3-core (L, N, PE) mains leads widely used for >> single-phase products or are the majority of products safety Class II, >> with just L and N? > > At least for household products, majority of products are Class 0 > and some specific products such as cloth washers are Class 0I. > > Here in Japan, mains outlets in homes rarely have PE terminals. > > Some products such as air conditioners sometimes rated for 200 V, > in that case they often have 3-core mains cords. > > Regards, > Tom > > -- > Tomonori Sato > URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
Hello John, The vast majority of single-phase electrical outlets in Japanese residential and commercial installations have no protective earth. Most products sold in Japan are Class II. Outlets with protective earth are typically only found in industrial applications in Japan. Best regards, Ted Eckert The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: John Woodgate Sent: Friday, December 7, 2018 2:54 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Japanese manis leads In Japan, are 3-core (L, N, PE) mains leads widely used for single-phase products or are the majority of products safety Class II, with just L and N? -- Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodjohn.uk=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Cf031db8544524b5c8d5508d65c326e45%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797769013214049=QRLcFfPrJhI%2BCzAHi6DY6mUlS6JiHPL3PzVF3Ho7XDA%3D=0> Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Cf031db8544524b5c8d5508d65c326e45%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797769013214049=Jvc6WyDjtqiuj1W1THppyOy9e9qV%2BPaPHCD66bkvxZI%3D=0> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Cf031db8544524b5c8d5508d65c326e45%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797769013224058=Tz6sAj0zdTXdt6s4%2Fuu7Ctrlg9sT4HwQ1IoFRr7rEco%3D=0> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Cf031db8544524b5c8d5508d65c326e45%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797769013224058=d5GMH12R1SNTOO2F8fFF5%2B1SiW1y7M4sIg7kVLU1E%2BE%3D=0> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Cf031db8544524b5c8d5508d65c326e45%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797769013234066=XMwlIrvQYIShw8SOnHN7qYERnRAcA5Y1vjAmk6AZCp0%3D=0> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Cf031db8544524b5c8d5508d65c326e45%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797769013244070=EGiHjW6xDSCAGNu4hQiRtE5ofxpKBfvJUMHdTmLa8M0%3D=0> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
Tom Ref those 200V products: are they single phase 2-wire (Neutral + Live) + Ground, OR split-phase (100V on each of 2 Live legs) + Neutral return? (IIRC, it is the latter - probably introduced as a result of North American influence where that configuration is common for high consumption appliances). John E Allen W. London, UK -Original Message- From: T.Sato [mailto:vef00...@nifty.com] Sent: 07 December 2018 14:04 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads John, On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 10:54:18 +, John Woodgate wrote: > In Japan, are 3-core (L, N, PE) mains leads widely used for > single-phase products or are the majority of products safety Class II, > with just L and N? At least for household products, majority of products are Class 0 and some specific products such as cloth washers are Class 0I. Here in Japan, mains outlets in homes rarely have PE terminals. Some products such as air conditioners sometimes rated for 200 V, in that case they often have 3-core mains cords. Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
Thank you. Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-12-07 14:04, T.Sato wrote: John, On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 10:54:18 +, John Woodgate wrote: In Japan, are 3-core (L, N, PE) mains leads widely used for single-phase products or are the majority of products safety Class II, with just L and N? At least for household products, majority of products are Class 0 and some specific products such as cloth washers are Class 0I. Here in Japan, mains outlets in homes rarely have PE terminals. Some products such as air conditioners sometimes rated for 200 V, in that case they often have 3-core mains cords. Regards, Tom - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
Thank you. Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-12-07 14:04, T.Sato wrote: John, On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 10:54:18 +, John Woodgate wrote: In Japan, are 3-core (L, N, PE) mains leads widely used for single-phase products or are the majority of products safety Class II, with just L and N? At least for household products, majority of products are Class 0 and some specific products such as cloth washers are Class 0I. Here in Japan, mains outlets in homes rarely have PE terminals. Some products such as air conditioners sometimes rated for 200 V, in that case they often have 3-core mains cords. Regards, Tom - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Japanese manis leads
John, On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 10:54:18 +, John Woodgate wrote: > In Japan, are 3-core (L, N, PE) mains leads widely used for > single-phase products or are the majority of products safety Class II, > with just L and N? At least for household products, majority of products are Class 0 and some specific products such as cloth washers are Class 0I. Here in Japan, mains outlets in homes rarely have PE terminals. Some products such as air conditioners sometimes rated for 200 V, in that case they often have 3-core mains cords. Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Japanese manis leads
In Japan, are 3-core (L, N, PE) mains leads widely used for single-phase products or are the majority of products safety Class II, with just L and N? -- Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: