Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Peter, et al, Well, that says it all. The instrumentation folks never expected the traditional body model circuit (now called eBurn circuit) to be used in the traditional way measuring leakage currents as it has been used for 50 years. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 p.perk...@ieee.org -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 3:59 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter This afternoon's update: the resolution of the inductive current probes I have are limited to 10 Ma. All currents look like noise. Peter Tarver > -Original Message- > From: Peter Tarver > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 09:29 > > Thank you, Pete. > > I have received an initial response from Kikusui requesting additional > information about the EUT and the test setup. > > I haven't looked at the waveforms yet, other than voltage. > That's on the docket. > > Regarding the matter of scale, (as I'm sure you're aware) the Simpson > 228 uses multiple measurement networks and was the first commercially > available leakage current meter to address UL 1459 requirements. The > Burn Hazard setting (corresponding to 61010-1, Figure A.3, and the > Kikusui TOS3200, Network A) is 100 mA full scale and I am trying to > measure current below 1 mA. > > For shock hazard (Let Go and Reaction), the scale is OK. > > > Peter Tarver The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
This afternoon's update: the resolution of the inductive current probes I have are limited to 10 Ma. All currents look like noise. Peter Tarver > -Original Message- > From: Peter Tarver > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 09:29 > > Thank you, Pete. > > I have received an initial response from Kikusui requesting > additional information about the EUT and the test setup. > > I haven't looked at the waveforms yet, other than voltage. > That's on the docket. > > Regarding the matter of scale, (as I'm sure you're aware) the > Simpson 228 uses multiple measurement networks and was > the first commercially available leakage current meter to > address UL 1459 requirements. The Burn Hazard setting > (corresponding to 61010-1, Figure A.3, and the Kikusui > TOS3200, Network A) is 100 mA full scale and I am trying to > measure current below 1 mA. > > For shock hazard (Let Go and Reaction), the scale is OK. > > > Peter Tarver The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Peter, Thanx for the clarification. Yes, the Simpson 228 does set the eBurn measurement up on a 100 mArms scale (which fits well with a 70mArms at hi freq spec as used in some standards - at 70mArms at HF the line freq value would be ooo 17.5mArms which would be readable on the 100 mArms scale). Working at 1 mArms or so is down in the mud for that circuit; the value provided on the output circuit is also at the noise limit for the amplifier, as I have shown in the PSES/ISPCE demo done in the past. This eBurn circuit is also the IEC basic body model circuit which has been used for leakage current measurements for more than 50 years in IEC standards - when these were primarily sinusoidal waveforms at line frequency. It worked well for these measurements. The UL circuit has a similar topology but different R and C values; it would provide similar results as has been shown many times in the past. There will be a paper on this measurement and circuit in the next PSE Newsletter (it's in the hopper now so look for it when the PSE News is next published). We're all awaiting your completion of the evaluation and you providing feedback on the experience and results from your work. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 p.perk...@ieee.org -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 9:29 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter Thank you, Pete. I have received an initial response from Kikusui requesting additional information about the EUT and the test setup. I haven't looked at the waveforms yet, other than voltage. That's on the docket. Regarding the matter of scale, (as I'm sure you're aware) the Simpson 228 uses multiple measurement networks and was the first commercially available leakage current meter to address UL 1459 requirements. The Burn Hazard setting (corresponding to 61010-1, Figure A.3, and the Kikusui TOS3200, Network A) is 100 mA full scale and I am trying to measure current below 1 mA. For shock hazard (Let Go and Reaction), the scale is OK. Peter Tarver > -Original Message- > From: Pete Perkins > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 23:17 > > Peter, > > Altho I have no experience with the Kikusui meter, I believe that you > are on the right track chasing these differences. > > Since you have a Simpson 228 are you using a scope to look at the > waveforms and get the readings for the scope display? In my work with > that meter I always looked at the scope display because of the better > numerical resolution from the scope display. If you have looked at > the collexion of scope pix provided on safetylink you will see these > details in each scope display - the waveforms as well as the digital > readout of rms and pk-pk values. > > Not sure what your measured touch current is when you say the 228 > doesn't have the sensitivity you need. The 0.3mA scale should easily > read down to <0.03mA (<30uA) or below. Or is it you can't read the > differences between two measurements on the meter face? Use your > scope reading to get the numerical values, as discussed above. > > Not sure whether or not you can get scope waveform pix from the > Kikusui unit. > > Unfortunately, the use of complex equipment takes some training and/or > experience to get the correct result each time. The mfgr makes it > sound so easy but the proof is in the use pudding. > The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For polic
Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Thank you, Pete. I have received an initial response from Kikusui requesting additional information about the EUT and the test setup. I haven't looked at the waveforms yet, other than voltage. That's on the docket. Regarding the matter of scale, (as I'm sure you're aware) the Simpson 228 uses multiple measurement networks and was the first commercially available leakage current meter to address UL 1459 requirements. The Burn Hazard setting (corresponding to 61010-1, Figure A.3, and the Kikusui TOS3200, Network A) is 100 mA full scale and I am trying to measure current below 1 mA. For shock hazard (Let Go and Reaction), the scale is OK. Peter Tarver > -Original Message- > From: Pete Perkins > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 23:17 > > Peter, > > Altho I have no experience with the Kikusui meter, I > believe that > you are on the right track chasing these differences. > > Since you have a Simpson 228 are you using a scope > to look at the > waveforms and get the readings for the scope display? In > my work with that > meter I always looked at the scope display because of the > better numerical > resolution from the scope display. If you have looked at the > collexion of > scope pix provided on safetylink you will see these details in > each scope > display - the waveforms as well as the digital readout of rms > and pk-pk > values. > > Not sure what your measured touch current is when > you say the 228 > doesn't have the sensitivity you need. The 0.3mA scale > should easily read > down to <0.03mA (<30uA) or below. Or is it you can't read > the differences > between two measurements on the meter face? Use your > scope reading to get > the numerical values, as discussed above. > > Not sure whether or not you can get scope > waveform pix from the > Kikusui unit. > > Unfortunately, the use of complex equipment takes > some training > and/or experience to get the correct result each time. The > mfgr makes it > sound so easy but the proof is in the use pudding. > The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Peter, Altho I have no experience with the Kikusui meter, I believe that you are on the right track chasing these differences. Since you have a Simpson 228 are you using a scope to look at the waveforms and get the readings for the scope display? In my work with that meter I always looked at the scope display because of the better numerical resolution from the scope display. If you have looked at the collexion of scope pix provided on safetylink you will see these details in each scope display - the waveforms as well as the digital readout of rms and pk-pk values. Not sure what your measured touch current is when you say the 228 doesn't have the sensitivity you need. The 0.3mA scale should easily read down to <0.03mA (<30uA) or below. Or is it you can't read the differences between two measurements on the meter face? Use your scope reading to get the numerical values, as discussed above. Not sure whether or not you can get scope waveform pix from the Kikusui unit. Unfortunately, the use of complex equipment takes some training and/or experience to get the correct result each time. The mfgr makes it sound so easy but the proof is in the use pudding. Hopefully you can quickly straighten out the measurement confusion and get proper answers. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 p.perk...@ieee.org -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 4:23 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter Thank you, Nute. Page 70 of the manual indicates the ability to select a measuring network. According to the first paragraph on this page, it's a meter only for voltage measurements. Page 71 shows how to select a measurement network when using meter mode. FWIW, I used Networks A, B and G on Page 114 and can see the effects of frequency filtering between these networks. Also FWIW, I have a Simpson 228 and see similar results to meter mode measurements, though the levels are below the resolution of the 228 to accurately read the result. Because the EUT is double insulated, the PE is always "faulted." I can't use the faceplate outlet for PCC (Protective Conductor Current) measurements, but I can for touch current measurements. Peter Tarver > -Original Message- > From: Richard > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 10:42 > > Hello Peter: > > I downloaded the TOS3200 manual to better understand your problem. > > When the TOS3200 is in "meter mode," the terminals A-B comprise an > ammeter (without the body impedance network). This will yield a > higher current than in the TC (touch current) mode. I'm not sure if > A-B can have the body impedance network switched in, although this is > implied in Figure 4-11. > > For a two-wire (double-insulated) product, there is no earth wire so > you cannot use the outlet for the measurement. You must use the A-B > terminals. > The connections to a two-wire product are shown in "b" of Figure 4-7. The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compl
Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Thank you, Nute. Page 70 of the manual indicates the ability to select a measuring network. According to the first paragraph on this page, it's a meter only for voltage measurements. Page 71 shows how to select a measurement network when using meter mode. FWIW, I used Networks A, B and G on Page 114 and can see the effects of frequency filtering between these networks. Also FWIW, I have a Simpson 228 and see similar results to meter mode measurements, though the levels are below the resolution of the 228 to accurately read the result. Because the EUT is double insulated, the PE is always "faulted." I can't use the faceplate outlet for PCC (Protective Conductor Current) measurements, but I can for touch current measurements. Peter Tarver > -Original Message- > From: Richard > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 10:42 > > Hello Peter: > > I downloaded the TOS3200 manual to better > understand your problem. > > When the TOS3200 is in "meter mode," the terminals > A-B comprise an ammeter (without the body > impedance network). This will yield a higher > current than in the TC (touch current) mode. I'm > not sure if A-B can have the body impedance > network switched in, although this is implied in > Figure 4-11. > > For a two-wire (double-insulated) product, there > is no earth wire so you cannot use the outlet for > the measurement. You must use the A-B terminals. > The connections to a two-wire product are shown in > "b" of Figure 4-7. The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Thank you, John. Agreed, but I have also moved the conductors around, used multiple wire routings, multiple power sources, power systems in two buildings, on a ground plane (this was happenstance in the second building)... While the results have minor differences, the effects I'm seeing are always there. I plan to try an isolation transformer, a la 60950-1 to see if there's a different response. I have written to Kikusui and asked them a similar question. I'll report back Peter Tarver > -Original Message- > From: John Woodgate > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 23:30 > > Stray capacitances are different in the two modes, but > probably only affect > measurements if there are relatively strong high-frequency > components in the current. The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Agree with Mr. Woodgate, but there are additional problems. A good reference for this is Mr. Perkin's presentations and articles on the subject. Current and voltage waveforms in ground and touch Type Tests for switch-mode power supplies are very complex; and can vary in amplitude, frequency, crest factor, and duty cycle over the range of rated operating conditions, and will seldom be sinusoidal. There is also the issue of multiple parallel current paths for leakage, which can be from the test configuration, loads, input reference and impedance, and the various influences of the Dark Side. For touch current, ground current, and the related WV Type Tests, there is no commercial test equipment available that can satisfy my requirements. Have built several iterations of the basic HBM nodes and signal conditioning over the eons that have served me well and identified problems that commercial test equipment would probably not reveal. Brian -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 11:30 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter Stray capacitances are different in the two modes, but probably only affect measurements if there are relatively strong high-frequency components in the current. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 00:49 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter Hello. I am using a Kikusui TOS3200 to measure touch current for a 61010-1 application. The product is double-insulated and has accessible USB port connector shells connected to the secondary circuit reference. When using the TOS3200 in meter mode (using the two external meter leads), I obtain different results than if I measure using the faceplate 5-15R outlet and one external meter lead. For each test, I'm using the same measurement networks when attempting to correlate the results. When using the outlet, the meter lead connects to the USB shell. When in meter mode, I am connecting one lead to the USB connector shell and one lead to the power conductor of interest. Has anyone experienced this with either the TOS3200 or other leakage/touch current meters? FWIW, the manual does not indicate any special considerations are needed when using meter mode. The instrument is in good condition and went through a calibration verification in AUG2016. The currents are within "Measurement range setting Range 1," but the meter is set in auto range mode. I plan some additional experiments using defined ranges, rather than auto in the next day or so. Peter Tarver The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim B
Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Hello Peter: I downloaded the TOS3200 manual to better understand your problem. When the TOS3200 is in "meter mode," the terminals A-B comprise an ammeter (without the body impedance network). This will yield a higher current than in the TC (touch current) mode. I'm not sure if A-B can have the body impedance network switched in, although this is implied in Figure 4-11. For a two-wire (double-insulated) product, there is no earth wire so you cannot use the outlet for the measurement. You must use the A-B terminals. The connections to a two-wire product are shown in "b" of Figure 4-7. Hope this helps. Best regards, Rich > -Original Message- > From: Peter Tarver > [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 4:49 PM > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter > > Hello. > > I am using a Kikusui TOS3200 to measure touch current for > a 61010-1 application. > > The product is double-insulated and has accessible USB port > connector shells connected to the secondary circuit > reference. > > When using the TOS3200 in meter mode (using the two > external meter leads), I obtain different results than if I > measure using the faceplate 5-15R outlet and one external > meter lead. For each test, I'm using the same measurement > networks when attempting to correlate the results. > > When using the outlet, the meter lead connects to the USB > shell. > > When in meter mode, I am connecting one lead to the USB > connector shell and one lead to the power conductor of > interest. > > Has anyone experienced this with either the TOS3200 or > other leakage/touch current meters? > > FWIW, the manual does not indicate any special > considerations are needed when using meter mode. > > The instrument is in good condition and went through a > calibration verification in AUG2016. > > The currents are within "Measurement range setting Range > 1," but the meter is set in auto range mode. I plan some > additional experiments using defined ranges, rather than > auto in the next day or so. > > > Peter Tarver - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Stray capacitances are different in the two modes, but probably only affect measurements if there are relatively strong high-frequency components in the current. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 00:49 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter Hello. I am using a Kikusui TOS3200 to measure touch current for a 61010-1 application. The product is double-insulated and has accessible USB port connector shells connected to the secondary circuit reference. When using the TOS3200 in meter mode (using the two external meter leads), I obtain different results than if I measure using the faceplate 5-15R outlet and one external meter lead. For each test, I'm using the same measurement networks when attempting to correlate the results. When using the outlet, the meter lead connects to the USB shell. When in meter mode, I am connecting one lead to the USB connector shell and one lead to the power conductor of interest. Has anyone experienced this with either the TOS3200 or other leakage/touch current meters? FWIW, the manual does not indicate any special considerations are needed when using meter mode. The instrument is in good condition and went through a calibration verification in AUG2016. The currents are within "Measurement range setting Range 1," but the meter is set in auto range mode. I plan some additional experiments using defined ranges, rather than auto in the next day or so. Peter Tarver The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Kikusui TOS3200 Leakage Current Meter
Hello. I am using a Kikusui TOS3200 to measure touch current for a 61010-1 application. The product is double-insulated and has accessible USB port connector shells connected to the secondary circuit reference. When using the TOS3200 in meter mode (using the two external meter leads), I obtain different results than if I measure using the faceplate 5-15R outlet and one external meter lead. For each test, I'm using the same measurement networks when attempting to correlate the results. When using the outlet, the meter lead connects to the USB shell. When in meter mode, I am connecting one lead to the USB connector shell and one lead to the power conductor of interest. Has anyone experienced this with either the TOS3200 or other leakage/touch current meters? FWIW, the manual does not indicate any special considerations are needed when using meter mode. The instrument is in good condition and went through a calibration verification in AUG2016. The currents are within "Measurement range setting Range 1," but the meter is set in auto range mode. I plan some additional experiments using defined ranges, rather than auto in the next day or so. Peter Tarver The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this message! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
