[PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive 2014/30/EU

[Amund Westin]

National legislation in Norway 

https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/2016-04-15-378

 

 

#Amund

 

 

Fra: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] 
Sendt: 20. juni 2016 18:38
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] New EMC Directive 2014/30/EU

 

Re: As the Directive has been transposed into national legislation in at least 
one member state, e.g. Ireland S.I. No.145/2016 
 , it is 
considered to be implemented across the EU for the purpose of declaring 
compliance against it.

 

That was what the UK government lawyers said, but the Commission denied it, and 
said that a Directive isn't valid until all members states have transposed it. 
I haven't seen any withdrawal of that ruling.

 

 

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only

  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England

 

From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 5:09 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] New EMC Directive 2014/30/EU

 

Scott

 

As the Directive has been transposed into national legislation in at least one 
member state, e.g. Ireland S.I. No.145/2016 
 , it is 
considered to be implemented across the EU for the purpose of declaring 
compliance against it.

 

I would say that the intent is clear, and that all DoCs should be against the 
new Directive – I would imagine that a country is going to have a hard time 
attempting any market enforcement on the basis that they have been too slow in 
implementing required legislation…..

 

Regards

Charlie

 

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 19 June 2016 04:46
To: Charlie Blackham; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
 
Subject: Re: [PSES] New EMC Directive 2014/30/EU

 

Does it mean the products entering into UK are still legal for the compliance 
with old EMCD only?  Until they update the law, the new EMCD is not effective 
in the UK or other EU countries who have not updated their law yet.  For 
regulations, it is not required to update their local law since they are EU 
laws?

 

Scott

 

 

From: Charlie Blackham mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> >
Reply-To: Charlie Blackham mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> >
Date: Friday, 17 June 2016 at 7:49 PM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> >
Subject: Re: [PSES] New EMC Directive 2014/30/EU

 

Andy

 

The short answers are:

> Will a new SI be enacted? 

Yes it should be – the Directive is an instruction to do so

>If so when?

Not sure anyone knows

 

As I understand it, the current (SI) 2006 No. 3418 remains in force in UK law 
until revoked by a new one.

 

According to minutes of recent EUANB meeting, “Some countries have not yet 
transposed the Directive into national law.”, which suggests that at least one 
has, which is all that is needed in any case.

 

Regards

Charlie

 

 

From: McCallum, Andy [mailto:andy.mccal...@mottmac.com] 
Sent: 17 June 2016 11:29
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: [PSES] New EMC Directive 2014/30/EU

 

Hi

 

The old EMC Directive 2002/108/EC was brought into UK law by the Statutory 
Instruments (SI) 2006 No. 3418. As of the 16 April the New EMC Directive 
2014/30/EU replaced 2002/108/EC. However, I can find no reference for a new SI 
bringing in the new directive. 

 

Will a new SI be enacted? If so when?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 


Andy McCallum


BEng (Hons), MIET, CEng

 


Senior EMC Engineer


   

 

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http://www

Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Hay, Ed]

Hi All,

I'm surprised to see all these questions  These exact same requirements
have been in the Recast ROHS Directive and mandatory since Jan 13. So if
for example you are an EU manufacturer placing goods on the EU market you
MUST place your address on the product as per Art 7h(unless size does not
permit etc etc).. There is nothing new in the EMC and LVD Recasts, they are
just coming into line with all the other Directives that have previously
had the NLF requirements applied to them.

Cheers
Ed


On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 12:56 PM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert
Gremmen  wrote:

> As far as i understand the idea behind
> the new directives is to put liability
> for compliance at the whole supply chain.
> In the past, too often an importer (liable in the old directive)
> could not be held responsible/liable because
> he did not exist, had disappeared
> or simply could not be found, leaving the EU with
> a non-compliant product and no-one to blame.
> (while not EMC, see RAPEX-listings for
>  100s of anonymous non complaint products)
> By including the whole chain the commission
> decided it would be more easy to enforce.
>
> So I doubt that the subtle differences between
> importer, distributor of retailer as
> laid out in this discussion will mean something
> for liability in this respect.
>
> Neither do I believe that to ensure or to verify
> will lead to a different position of the enforcement
> authorities in respect to these parties. The words
> only reflect the action the different parties
> they need to take to ensure
> -i repeat- ensure that only compliant products
> are "made available to the market" or "put into service on the market"
>
> The verification action is no different from the ensuring
> action, in that both require any person in the supply chain
> to be able to provide "prove" a safe product is will be sold.
> ("prove"  in the classical sense of ec directives)
>
> This can mean that he requests proof of compliance from
> the manufacturer, or any person in the supply chain above.
>
> It will also lead to a substantial changes
> in sales contracts between partners in the supply chain.
>
> While the  authorities can and will use public right
> to charge any available agent in the chain, the consequences
> for liability between chain partners will need to be covered with civil
> right. And that is quite another beast.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ing.  Gert Gremmen, BSc
>
>
>
> g.grem...@cetest.nl
> www.cetest.nl
>
> Kiotoweg 363
> 3047 BG Rotterdam
> T 31(0)104152426
> F 31(0)104154953
>
>  Before printing, think about the environment.
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com]
> Verzonden: Friday, April 25, 2014 5:02 PM
> Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New
> EMC Directive
>
> All
>
> These new NLF aligned Directives are just Directive at present.
> None have yet been implemented in national legislation and there is also
> no "official" "guidance".
>
> I think we may need to wait (quite) a few months before there is more
> clarification in this area.
>
> The new sections on obligations of importers and of distributors are
> designed to allow better market enforcement. Since this is actually done at
> national level, under national legislation:
> - it will be interesting to see what gets implemented in that legislation
> - what (subtle) differences there are between different countries in their
> implementation.
>
> Regards
> Charlie
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com]
> Sent: 25 April 2014 15:49
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC
> Directive
>
> In the eyes of the new legislative framework (and other legislation
> groups),  retailers are the same as distributors (or at least a retailer is
> a type of distributor). A specific natural or legal person might be a
> couple economic operators. It is possible to be both a manufacture and a
> distributor, for example.
>
> Many Commission discussions of the NLF use a phrase like "distributors
> (including retailers)"
>
> Sometimes "retailer" is an exact substitute for "distributor" (rather than
> a subset). For example, regarding battery legislation, this explanation
> from UK guidance THE WASTE BATTERIES AND ACCUMULATORS REGULATIONS 2009
> Government Guidance Notes May 2011 "Examples of distributors are:
> -- A retailer that buys packs of batteries from a UK suppl

Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Charlie Blackham]

Brian

The EU produces a number of pieces of legislation:

EU Directive have no power until implemented into National Legislation. 
Determination of compliance and prosecution is done by national bodies under 
national legislation
They should be implemented without modification or gold plating, but . . . . 

EU Regulations are law from moment they are published

EU Decisions are just guidance to be considered when legislation is made

Unsurprisingly, "Brussels" like Regulations . . . 

Regards
Charlie

-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: 27 April 2014 21:04
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC 
Directive

If your message is understood, published directives have no meaning until each 
member state publishes a statue that implements the respective directive; and 
that each member state could publish implementation statues that do not contain 
the original intent and/or meaning of the directive. Probably confused because 
moi hath only spake redneck.

Brian


From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl]
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:22 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC 
Directive

Hi Han,

Blue Guide 2014 par 1.4 on liability:

Liability, the responsibility to pay for damages, is placed on the producer. A 
producer is either a manufacturer of a finished product or a component part of 
a finished product, producer of any raw material, or any person who presents 
himself as a manufacturer (for example by affixing a trademark). Importers 
placing products on the Union market from third countries are all considered to 
be producers under the Directive on product liability. If the producer cannot 
be identified, each supplier of the product becomes liable, unless he informs 
the injured person within a reasonable time of the identity of the producer, or 
of the person who supplied him with the product. When several persons are 
liable for the same damage, they are all jointly and severally liable.

On the Importer (par 3.3)
The importer must ensure that the manufacturer has correctly fulfilled his 
obligations.  The importer is not a simple re-seller of products, but has a key 
role to play in guaranteeing the compliance of imported products.
(note the use of the word “ensure”)

On the distributor (par 3.4)
Distributors have an obligation to demonstrate to the national market 
surveillance authority that they have acted with due care and ensure that the 
manufacturer, or his authorised representative, or the person who provided him 
with the product has taken the measures required by the applicable Union 
harmonisation legislation as listed in the obligations for distributors.
(note again the use of the word “ensure” even if used in combination with due 
care)


It is clear that the expectations of the EU are different for all 3 partners 
(manufacturer, importer and distributor(reseller) in respect to the actions 
they need to perform (verify / ensure / prove / provide / hold available /affix 
ce) , but it is equally clear that the liability is shared by the all partners 
equally.

This means that if a million products have to be recalled for non-compliance 
and the manufacturer and importer are unknown or have gone broke, the final 
selling partner is meant to be liable…

(unless he is victim of fraud of course, but then the question is if he really 
did due care or not….)

And finally , the directives texts will be determining, not the blue guide, and 
in fact the translation of the directive in the national laws of the member 
states will be used in court.
And those will be different in details for any directive and any translation, 
so you may might be right after all Han. ;<))


Regards,

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Mike Cantwell 

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Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
ht

Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Brian Oconnell]

If your message is understood, published directives have no meaning until each 
member state publishes a statue that implements the respective directive; and 
that each member state could publish implementation statues that do not contain 
the original intent and/or meaning of the directive. Probably confused because 
moi hath only spake redneck.

Brian


From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] 
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:22 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC 
Directive

Hi Han,

Blue Guide 2014 par 1.4 on liability:

Liability, the responsibility to pay for damages, is placed on the producer. A 
producer is either a manufacturer of a finished product 
or a component part of a finished product, producer of any raw material, or any 
person who presents himself as a manufacturer 
(for example by affixing a trademark). Importers placing products on the Union 
market from third countries are all considered to 
be producers under the Directive on product liability. If the producer cannot 
be identified, each supplier of the product becomes 
liable, unless he informs the injured person within a reasonable time of the 
identity of the producer, or of the person who supplied 
him with the product. When several persons are liable for the same damage, they 
are all jointly and severally liable.

On the Importer (par 3.3)
The importer must ensure that the manufacturer has correctly fulfilled his 
obligations.  The importer is not a simple re-seller of    
products, but has a key role to play in guaranteeing the compliance of imported 
products.
(note the use of the word “ensure”)

On the distributor (par 3.4)
Distributors have an obligation to demonstrate to the national market 
surveillance authority 
that they have acted with due care and ensure that the manufacturer, or his 
authorised representative, or the person who 
provided him with the product has taken the measures required by the applicable 
Union harmonisation legislation as listed in the 
obligations for distributors.
(note again the use of the word “ensure” even if used in combination with due 
care)


It is clear that the expectations of the EU are different for all 3 partners
(manufacturer, importer and distributor(reseller) in respect to the 
actions they need to perform (verify / ensure / prove / provide / hold 
available /affix ce) ,
but it is equally clear that the liability is shared by the all partners 
equally.

This means that if a million products have to be recalled for non-compliance
and the manufacturer and importer are unknown or have gone broke, the
final selling partner is meant to be liable…

(unless he is victim of fraud of course, but then the question is if
he really did due care or not….)

And finally , the directives texts will be determining, not the blue guide, 
and in fact the translation of the directive in the national laws
of the member states will be used in court.
And those will be different in details for any directive and
any translation, so you may might be right after all Han. ;<))


Regards,

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen]

As far as i understand the idea behind
the new directives is to put liability
for compliance at the whole supply chain.
In the past, too often an importer (liable in the old directive)
could not be held responsible/liable because
he did not exist, had disappeared
or simply could not be found, leaving the EU with
a non-compliant product and no-one to blame.
(while not EMC, see RAPEX-listings for
 100s of anonymous non complaint products)
By including the whole chain the commission
decided it would be more easy to enforce.

So I doubt that the subtle differences between
importer, distributor of retailer as
laid out in this discussion will mean something
for liability in this respect.

Neither do I believe that to ensure or to verify
will lead to a different position of the enforcement
authorities in respect to these parties. The words
only reflect the action the different parties
they need to take to ensure
-i repeat- ensure that only compliant products 
are "made available to the market" or "put into service on the market"

The verification action is no different from the ensuring
action, in that both require any person in the supply chain
to be able to provide "prove" a safe product is will be sold.  
("prove"  in the classical sense of ec directives)

This can mean that he requests proof of compliance from
the manufacturer, or any person in the supply chain above.

It will also lead to a substantial changes
in sales contracts between partners in the supply chain.

While the  authorities can and will use public right
to charge any available agent in the chain, the consequences
for liability between chain partners will need to be covered with civil right. 
And that is quite another beast.



Regards,

Ing.  Gert Gremmen, BSc



g.grem...@cetest.nl
www.cetest.nl

Kiotoweg 363
3047 BG Rotterdam
T 31(0)104152426
F 31(0)104154953

 Before printing, think about the environment. 


-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
Verzonden: Friday, April 25, 2014 5:02 PM
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC 
Directive

All

These new NLF aligned Directives are just Directive at present.
None have yet been implemented in national legislation and there is also no 
"official" "guidance".

I think we may need to wait (quite) a few months before there is more 
clarification in this area.

The new sections on obligations of importers and of distributors are designed 
to allow better market enforcement. Since this is actually done at national 
level, under national legislation:
- it will be interesting to see what gets implemented in that legislation
- what (subtle) differences there are between different countries in their 
implementation.

Regards
Charlie

-Original Message-
From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com]
Sent: 25 April 2014 15:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

In the eyes of the new legislative framework (and other legislation groups),  
retailers are the same as distributors (or at least a retailer is a type of 
distributor). A specific natural or legal person might be a couple economic 
operators. It is possible to be both a manufacture and a distributor, for 
example. 

Many Commission discussions of the NLF use a phrase like "distributors 
(including retailers)"

Sometimes "retailer" is an exact substitute for "distributor" (rather than a 
subset). For example, regarding battery legislation, this explanation from UK 
guidance THE WASTE BATTERIES AND ACCUMULATORS REGULATIONS 2009 Government 
Guidance Notes May 2011 "Examples of distributors are:
-- A retailer that buys packs of batteries from a UK supplier and then sells 
them to end users
-- A wholesaler that buys batteries from a UK supplier and sells both to end 
users and retail outlets
-- A company that supplies batteries free-of-charge as part of a promotion, 
even if they do not normally sell batteries.
Examples of companies that are both distributors and producers [LC equiv. to 
manufacturer in battery reg. speak] are:
-- A business that imports and places batteries on the UK market and also sell 
them through their own retail outlet or network of outlets.
-- A business that has purchased batteries wholesale from a UK supplier and 
then sells the batteries on to end-users would be a distributor; if that same 
business also imports calculators that include batteries into the UK and also 
sells these on to end-users, then the business would also be a producer of the 
batteries in the calculator."

The Irish batteries regulation is written in terms of "retailer" even though 
the directive is written in terms of "distributor", but actions attributed to 
this economic actor (the retailer) in the Irish l

Re: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Charlie Blackham]

All

These new NLF aligned Directives are just Directive at present.
None have yet been implemented in national legislation and there is also no 
"official" "guidance".

I think we may need to wait (quite) a few months before there is more 
clarification in this area.

The new sections on obligations of importers and of distributors are designed 
to allow better market enforcement. Since this is actually done at national 
level, under national legislation:
- it will be interesting to see what gets implemented in that legislation
- what (subtle) differences there are between different countries in their 
implementation.

Regards
Charlie

-Original Message-
From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] 
Sent: 25 April 2014 15:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

In the eyes of the new legislative framework (and other legislation groups),  
retailers are the same as distributors (or at least a retailer is a type of 
distributor). A specific natural or legal person might be a couple economic 
operators. It is possible to be both a manufacture and a distributor, for 
example. 

Many Commission discussions of the NLF use a phrase like "distributors 
(including retailers)"

Sometimes "retailer" is an exact substitute for "distributor" (rather than a 
subset). For example, regarding battery legislation, this explanation from UK 
guidance THE WASTE BATTERIES AND ACCUMULATORS REGULATIONS 2009 Government 
Guidance Notes May 2011 "Examples of distributors are:
-- A retailer that buys packs of batteries from a UK supplier and then sells 
them to end users
-- A wholesaler that buys batteries from a UK supplier and sells both to end 
users and retail outlets
-- A company that supplies batteries free-of-charge as part of a promotion, 
even if they do not normally sell batteries.
Examples of companies that are both distributors and producers [LC equiv. to 
manufacturer in battery reg. speak] are:
-- A business that imports and places batteries on the UK market and also sell 
them through their own retail outlet or network of outlets.
-- A business that has purchased batteries wholesale from a UK supplier and 
then sells the batteries on to end-users would be a distributor; if that same 
business also imports calculators that include batteries into the UK and also 
sells these on to end-users, then the business would also be a producer of the 
batteries in the calculator."

The Irish batteries regulation is written in terms of "retailer" even though 
the directive is written in terms of "distributor", but actions attributed to 
this economic actor (the retailer) in the Irish legislation are acts of 
"distribution"  

Just a guess - but I imagine a difference between a distributor and a retailer 
may appear, and be significant, in regulations related to taxes, advertising, 
etc... 

Regards,
Lauren Crane
KLA-Tencor
-Original Message-
From: Jim Hulbert [mailto:jim.hulb...@pb.com]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 7:00 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

But there are also retailers who do NOT have shops/stores but only sell 
on-line.  So I think the definition of "retailer" is becoming murkier.

Jim

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 2:15 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

In message <20140425.073410.415869030.vef00...@nifty.ne.jp>, dated Fri,
25 Apr 2014, T. Sato  writes:

>I thought all retailers are also distributors under the new EMC 
>directive, as they are in the supply chain.
>
>Am I missing something?

The two words have different meanings. As I said, some companies do both. Just 
as an example, a distributor might or might not have a 'trade counter' where 
professionals can go to buy stuff, but they normally take orders by phone or 
on-line and send stuff from their warehouses, whereas retailers have 
shops/stores where the general public go.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex 
silvis sumus John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe) List ru

[PSES] Retailer vs. Distributor RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Crane, Lauren]

In the eyes of the new legislative framework (and other legislation groups),  
retailers are the same as distributors (or at least a retailer is a type of 
distributor). A specific natural or legal person might be a couple economic 
operators. It is possible to be both a manufacture and a distributor, for 
example. 

Many Commission discussions of the NLF use a phrase like "distributors 
(including retailers)"

Sometimes "retailer" is an exact substitute for "distributor" (rather than a 
subset). For example, regarding battery legislation, this explanation from UK 
guidance THE WASTE BATTERIES AND ACCUMULATORS REGULATIONS 2009 Government 
Guidance Notes May 2011
"Examples of distributors are:
-- A retailer that buys packs of batteries from a UK supplier and then sells 
them to end users
-- A wholesaler that buys batteries from a UK supplier and sells both to end 
users and retail outlets
-- A company that supplies batteries free-of-charge as part of a promotion, 
even if they do not normally sell batteries.
Examples of companies that are both distributors and producers [LC equiv. to 
manufacturer in battery reg. speak] are:
-- A business that imports and places batteries on the UK market and also sell 
them through their own retail outlet or network of outlets.
-- A business that has purchased batteries wholesale from a UK supplier and 
then sells the batteries on to end-users would be a distributor; if that same 
business also imports calculators that include batteries into the UK and also 
sells these on to end-users, then the business would also be a producer of the 
batteries in the calculator."

The Irish batteries regulation is written in terms of "retailer" even though 
the directive is written in terms of "distributor", but actions attributed to 
this economic actor (the retailer) in the Irish legislation are acts of 
"distribution"  

Just a guess - but I imagine a difference between a distributor and a retailer 
may appear, and be significant, in regulations related to taxes, advertising, 
etc... 

Regards,
Lauren Crane
KLA-Tencor
-Original Message-
From: Jim Hulbert [mailto:jim.hulb...@pb.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 7:00 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

But there are also retailers who do NOT have shops/stores but only sell 
on-line.  So I think the definition of "retailer" is becoming murkier.

Jim

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 2:15 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

In message <20140425.073410.415869030.vef00...@nifty.ne.jp>, dated Fri,
25 Apr 2014, T. Sato  writes:

>I thought all retailers are also distributors under the new EMC 
>directive, as they are in the supply chain.
>
>Am I missing something?

The two words have different meanings. As I said, some companies do both. Just 
as an example, a distributor might or might not have a 'trade counter' where 
professionals can go to buy stuff, but they normally take orders by phone or 
on-line and send stuff from their warehouses, whereas retailers have 
shops/stores where the general public go.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex 
silvis sumus John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Anthony Thomson]

Indeed Han, I stand corrected.

My paraphrasing is technically inaccurate and  /verification/ is of course the 
obligation incumbent on distributors.

Thank You,
Tony.
- Original Message -
From: Han Zuyderwijk
Sent: 04/25/14 12:49 PM
To: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org, Anthony Thomson
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

Dear Anthony,

The term the EMC Directive used in article 10 is actually not ‘ensure’, but 
‘verify’. It seems insignificant, but the responsibilities are quite different. 
‘Ensure’ implies a legal liability for compliance. ‘Verify’ implies that you 
have to check whether your supplier has fulfilled their responsibilities.

A distributor must ‘verify’ all the things you referred to. The manufacturer 
(within or outside the Union (=EEA + Turkey) and where applicable, the importer 
must ensure the compliance. The fact that the importer must ‘ensure’ instead of 
‘verify’ means that when the manufacturer did not fulfil his/her obligations, 
the importer is responsible for making the product compliant before making the 
product available.

Kind regards,
Han

On April 25, 2014 at 3:34:36 PM, Anthony Thomson ( ton...@europe.com ) wrote:

In the context of the EMC Directive, "Distributor" is defined within the 
directive’s (2014/30/EU) Article 3, Definitions. Item (14) states 
"‘distributor’ means any natural or legal person in the supply chain, other 
than the manufacturer or the importer, who makes apparatus available on the 
market;".
It is also interesting to note that the directive's Definitions specifically 
differentiate between "placing on the market" and "making available on the 
market".
Article 3, Definitions, item (9) states "‘making available on the market’ means 
any supply of apparatus for distribution, consumption or use on the Union 
market in the course of a commercial activity, whether in return for payment or 
free of charge;".
Note the circular reference. Distributors can ‘make available’ to other 
distributors (or for consumption/use). It is therefore possible to have 
multiple distributors in the supply chain, which includes the final distributor 
supplying the apparatus to the end user, or in directive speak 'making 
available on the market for consumption or use', i.e. whoever sells or supplies 
it last.
So according to the directive we could have: Manufacturer ==> Shipper ==> [EU] 
Importer ==> Distributor 1 =//=> Distributor n ==> Consumer/End User.
Now it gets interesting. Article 10 of the directive sets out the "Obligations 
of distributors" which essentially states that the 'distributor' shall ensure 
that:
* Apparatus bears the CE mark
* Required documents are present
* Article 18 is met (information regarding precautions, restrictions, intended 
use)
* Annex I, Essential Requirements are met (the technical stuff)
* Stored & transported such that Annex I requirements are not compromised
* Any non-compliant goods already sold are fixed or recalled
* Have documentation available demonstrating compliance (TCF ?)
So all you wholesalers, trade distributors, chain-store buyers, mail order 
companies, internet retailers, market traders, stall holders, eBay sellers, 
small shop owners and fencers of stolen goods... you'd better make sure you 
understand and fulfil your obligations under Directive 2014/30/EU of the 
European Parliament.
What could possibly go wrong?
T
- Original Message -----
From: John Woodgate
Sent: 04/25/14 07:14 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

In message <20140425.073410.415869030.vef00...@nifty.ne.jp>, dated Fri, 25 Apr 
2014, T. Sato  writes: >I thought all retailers are also 
distributors under the new EMC >directive, as they are in the supply chain. > 
>Am I missing something? The two words have different meanings. As I said, some 
companies do both. Just as an example, a distributor might or might not have a 
'trade counter' where professionals can go to buy stuff, but they normally take 
orders by phone or on-line and send stuff from their warehouses, whereas 
retailers have shops/stores where the general public go. -- OOO - Own Opinions 
Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex silvis sumus John 
Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - 
 This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to  All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the 
 > IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
 > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: 
 > http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: htt

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Jim Hulbert]

But there are also retailers who do NOT have shops/stores but only sell 
on-line.  So I think the definition of "retailer" is becoming murkier.

Jim

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 2:15 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

In message <20140425.073410.415869030.vef00...@nifty.ne.jp>, dated Fri,
25 Apr 2014, T. Sato  writes:

>I thought all retailers are also distributors under the new EMC
>directive, as they are in the supply chain.
>
>Am I missing something?

The two words have different meanings. As I said, some companies do both. Just 
as an example, a distributor might or might not have a 'trade counter' where 
professionals can go to buy stuff, but they normally take orders by phone or 
on-line and send stuff from their warehouses, whereas retailers have 
shops/stores where the general public go.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex 
silvis sumus John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Anthony Thomson]

In the context of the EMC Directive, "Distributor" is defined within the 
directive’s (2014/30/EU) Article 3, Definitions. Item (14) states 
"‘distributor’ means any natural or legal person in the supply chain, other 
than the manufacturer or the importer, who makes apparatus available on the 
market;".

It is also interesting to note that the directive's Definitions specifically 
differentiate between "placing on the market" and "making available on the 
market".

Article 3, Definitions, item (9) states "‘making available on the market’ means 
any supply of apparatus for distribution, consumption or use on the Union 
market in the course of a commercial activity, whether in return for payment or 
free of charge;".

Note the circular reference. Distributors can ‘make available’ to other 
distributors (or for consumption/use). It is therefore possible to have 
multiple distributors in the supply chain, which includes the final distributor 
supplying the apparatus to the end user, or in directive speak 'making 
available on the market for consumption or use', i.e. whoever sells or supplies 
it last. 

So according to the directive we could have: Manufacturer ==> Shipper ==> [EU] 
Importer ==> Distributor 1 =//=> Distributor n ==> Consumer/End User.

Now it gets interesting. Article 10 of the directive sets out the "Obligations 
of distributors" which essentially states that the 'distributor' shall ensure 
that:

* Apparatus bears the CE mark
* Required documents are present
* Article 18 is met (information regarding precautions, restrictions, intended 
use)
* Annex I, Essential Requirements are met (the technical stuff)
* Stored & transported such that Annex I requirements are not compromised
* Any non-compliant goods already sold are fixed or recalled
* Have documentation available demonstrating compliance (TCF ?)

So all you wholesalers, trade distributors, chain-store buyers, mail order 
companies, internet retailers, market traders, stall holders, eBay sellers, 
small shop owners and fencers of stolen goods... you'd better make sure you 
understand and fulfil your obligations under Directive 2014/30/EU of the 
European Parliament.

What could possibly go wrong?

T
- Original Message -----
From: John Woodgate
Sent: 04/25/14 07:14 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

In message <20140425.073410.415869030.vef00...@nifty.ne.jp>, dated Fri, 25 Apr 
2014, T. Sato  writes: >I thought all retailers are also 
distributors under the new EMC >directive, as they are in the supply chain. > 
>Am I missing something? The two words have different meanings. As I said, some 
companies do both. Just as an example, a distributor might or might not have a 
'trade counter' where professionals can go to buy stuff, but they normally take 
orders by phone or on-line and send stuff from their warehouses, whereas 
retailers have shops/stores where the general public go. -- OOO - Own Opinions 
Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex silvis sumus John 
Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - 
 This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to  All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the 
 > IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
 > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: 
 > http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
 > (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: 
 > http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list 
 > administrators: Scott Douglas  Mike Cantwell 
 >  For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: 
 >  David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Anthony Thomson]

In the context of the EMC Directive, "Distributor" is defined within the 
directive’s (2014/30/EU) Article 3, Definitions. Item (14) states 
"‘distributor’ means any natural or legal person in the supply chain, other 
than the manufacturer or the importer, who makes apparatus available on the 
market;".
It is also interesting to note that the directive's Definitions specifically 
differentiate between "placing on the market" and "making available on the 
market". 
Article 3, Definitions, item (9) states "‘making available on the market’ means 
any supply of apparatus for distribution, consumption or use on the Union 
market in the course of a commercial activity, whether in return for payment or 
free of charge;".
Note the circular reference. Distributors can ‘make available’ to other 
distributors (or for consumption/use). It is therefore possible to have 
multiple distributors in the supply chain, which includes the final distributor 
supplying the apparatus to the end user, or in directive speak 'making 
available on the market for consumption or use', i.e. whoever sells or supplies 
it last.
So according to the directive we could have: Manufacturer ==> Shipper ==> [EU] 
Importer ==> Distributor 1 =//=> Distributor n ==> Consumer/End User.
Now it gets interesting. Article 10 of the directive sets out the "Obligations 
of distributors" which essentially states that the 'distributor' shall ensure 
that:
* Apparatus bears the CE mark
* Required documents are present
* Article 18 is met (information regarding precautions, restrictions, intended 
use)
* Annex I, Essential Requirements are met (the technical stuff)
* Stored & transported such that Annex I requirements are not compromised
* Any non-compliant goods already sold are fixed or recalled
* Have documentation available demonstrating compliance (TCF ?)
So all you wholesalers, trade distributors, chain-store buyers, mail order 
companies, internet retailers, market traders, stall holders, eBay sellers, 
small shop owners and fencers of stolen goods... you'd better make sure you 
understand and fulfil your obligations under Directive 2014/30/EU of the 
European Parliament.
What could possibly go wrong?
T
- Original Message -----
From: John Woodgate
Sent: 04/25/14 07:14 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

In message <20140425.073410.415869030.vef00...@nifty.ne.jp>, dated Fri, 25 Apr 
2014, T. Sato  writes: >I thought all retailers are also 
distributors under the new EMC >directive, as they are in the supply chain. > 
>Am I missing something? The two words have different meanings. As I said, some 
companies do both. Just as an example, a distributor might or might not have a 
'trade counter' where professionals can go to buy stuff, but they normally take 
orders by phone or on-line and send stuff from their warehouses, whereas 
retailers have shops/stores where the general public go. -- OOO - Own Opinions 
Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex silvis sumus John 
Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - 
 This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to  All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
 > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the 
 > IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
 > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: 
 > http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
 > (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: 
 > http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list 
 > administrators: Scott Douglas  Mike Cantwell 
 >  For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: 
 >  David Heald: 

-

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Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[John Woodgate]

In message <20140425.073410.415869030.vef00...@nifty.ne.jp>, dated Fri, 
25 Apr 2014, T. Sato  writes:


I thought all retailers are also distributors under the new EMC 
directive, as they are in the supply chain.


Am I missing something?


The two words have different meanings. As I said, some companies do 
both. Just as an example, a distributor might or might not have a 'trade 
counter' where professionals can go to buy stuff, but they normally take 
orders by phone or on-line and send stuff from their warehouses, whereas 
retailers have shops/stores where the general public go.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Nondum ex silvis sumus
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[T.Sato]

On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:15:25 +0100,
  John Woodgate  wrote:

> In message <000f01cf5fa6$acd40660$067c1320$@westin-emission.no>, dated
> Thu, 24 Apr 2014, Amund Westin  writes:
> 
>>Distributors ... do we talk about stores as Kmart, Walmart, etc.?
> 
> Not really, they are retailers: Digikey and Mouser are
> distributors. Obviously there are many others. And some do both.

I thought all retailers are also distributors under the new EMC
directive, as they are in the supply chain.

Am I missing something?

Regards,
Tom

-- 
Tomonori Sato  
URL: http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/

-

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Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[John Woodgate]

In message <001801cf5fb1$5d379e90$17a6dbb0$@westin-emission.no>, dated 
Thu, 24 Apr 2014, Amund Westin  writes:


==> Does it mean that current Notified Bodies as Samsung, Siemens, 
Sony, etc. can no longer be a NB within the new EMC directive?


No, they are not 'Conformity Assessment Bodies', who are the people who 
check that Notified Bodies are competent and honest.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Nondum ex silvis sumus
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

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Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[John Woodgate]

In message <000f01cf5fa6$acd40660$067c1320$@westin-emission.no>, dated 
Thu, 24 Apr 2014, Amund Westin  writes:



Distributors ... do we talk about stores as Kmart, Walmart, etc.?


Not really, they are retailers: Digikey and Mouser are distributors. 
Obviously there are many others. And some do both.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Nondum ex silvis sumus
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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[PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Amund Westin]

EMC directive 2014/30/EU
Article 10: Obligations of distributors

Distributors ... do we talk about stores as Kmart, Walmart, etc.?



Best regards
Amund


-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: Brian Jones [mailto:e...@brianjones.co.uk] 
Sendt: 7. februar 2014 10:02
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: [PSES] New EMC Directive

Everyone

On 5 February the European Parliament adopted the "NLF package" of 8
directives, including the EMC and LVD revisions.  The texts of the new
versions of the directives will be published in the Official Journal
shortly.

The press release may be found here

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-111_en.htm 

There will be a transition period to allow Member States to produce their
own Laws, and apparatus in the distribution chain to be sold.  The dates
will be given when OJ publication takes place.

There will be a talk on the new EMCD as part of our next meeting of the IEEE
UK and Republic of Ireland EMC Chapter, which will be held on the afternoon
of 19 March at the Didcot Railway Centre.  Details will follow shortly, but
save the date now!

Best wishes

Brian

Brian Jones
EMC Consultant

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[PSES] SV: [PSES] New EMC Directive

[Amund Westin]

EMC directive 2014/30/EU
Article 24: Requirements relating to notified bodies

A conformity assessment body, its top level management and the personnel
responsible for carrying out the conformity assessment tasks shall not be
the designer, manufacturer, supplier, installer, purchaser, owner, user or
maintainer of the apparatus which they assess, nor the representative of any
of those parties.

==> Does it mean that current Notified Bodies as Samsung, Siemens, Sony,
etc. can no longer be a NB within the new EMC directive?


Best regards
Amund
 

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