RE: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC
Hello Eric, FCC rules, 15.31(3) tells us to measure using ANSI C63.4-2001, excluding section 4.1.5.2. Section 4.1.5.1 addresses loop antennas; 4.1.5.2 addresses rod antennas, which by the above exclusion, shows that a rod antenna is not allowed. We measure loop antenna products on an open field. If your product uses a loop antenna, I caution you about the site characteristics used to measure your products. A simple loop at 500 kHz should produce a 3rd order roll off. If your measurement site has any ferrous material in the ground (various utilities), your roll-off measurement may be corrupted. Of course if you have plenty of margin, you won't need the 3rd order roll-off. And good luck with the ambients. Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic 561 912 6440 From: Eric Penne [mailto:epe...@olug.org] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 3:53 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC I'm trying to find the test equipment requirements for testing a 508kHz intentional transmitter. More specifically I'm trying to find out if the FCC wants to use a loop or rod antenna. This is a large unknown to me and I am trying to research it right now. I was hoping that some of list members may be able to give me some more information and anything "gotchas" that I should be looking for. Thanks Eric Penne epe...@olug.org This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC
Eric, Robert is correct. The FCC requires the use of a loop antenna for measurements below 30MHz. The test distance required may put you in a bind, so Part 15 says for frequencies below 30MHz you can use lesser test distances and correct for the distance using a 40dB/decade conversion, as opposed to a 20dB/decade correction for frequencies above 30MHz. In addition, if by taking readings at a minimum of two different test distances you can prove a fall off ratio other than 40dB/decade, that can be used if documented in the report. The FCC does caution against making measurements in the near field. See Part 15.31 for further guidance. Bill Stumpf DLS Electronics 166 South Carter St. Genoa City WI 53128 ph: 262-279-0210 fx: 262-279-3630 email: bstu...@dlsemc.com From: robert.v.del...@us.ul.com [mailto:robert.v.del...@us.ul.com] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 6:44 AM To: Eric Penne Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC Eric, The FCC will only allow the use of a loop antenna for E-field measurements below 30MHz. Hope this helps. (Embedded image moved to file: pic18467.pcx) "Eric Penne" To: Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC o.ieee.org 09/05/2003 03:53 PM Please respond to "Eric Penne" I'm trying to find the test equipment requirements for testing a 508kHz intentional transmitter. More specifically I'm trying to find out if the FCC wants to use a loop or rod antenna. This is a large unknown to me and I am trying to research it right now. I was hoping that some of list members may be able to give me some more information and anything "gotchas" that I should be looking for. Thanks Eric Penne epe...@olug.org This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc -- For more information about UL, its Marks, and its services for EMC, quality registrations and product certifications for global markets, please access our web sites at http://www.ul.com and http://www.ulc.ca, or contact your local sales representative. -- * Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ** This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. Underwriters Laboratories Inc. and its affiliates do not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission. * This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Eric, The FCC will only allow the use of a loop antenna for E-field measurements below 30MHz. Hope this helps. (Embedded image moved to file: pic18467.pcx) "Eric Penne" To: Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC o.ieee.org 09/05/2003 03:53 PM Please respond to "Eric Penne" I'm trying to find the test equipment requirements for testing a 508kHz intentional transmitter. More specifically I'm trying to find out if the FCC wants to use a loop or rod antenna. This is a large unknown to me and I am trying to research it right now. I was hoping that some of list members may be able to give me some more information and anything "gotchas" that I should be looking for. Thanks Eric Penne epe...@olug.org This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc -- For more information about UL, its Marks, and its services for EMC, quality registrations and product certifications for global markets, please access our web sites at http://www.ul.com and http://www.ulc.ca, or contact your local sales representative. -- * Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ** This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. Underwriters Laboratories Inc. and its affiliates do not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission. ************* Title: Re: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC Eric, The FCC will only allow the use of a loop antenna for E-field measurements below 30MHz. Hope this helps. (Embedded image moved to file: pic18467.pcx) "Eric Penne" To: Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC o.ieee.org 09/05/2003 03:53 PM Please respond to "Eric
RE: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC
Eric, sounds similar to AM BC testing. It is common to use a magnetic loop antenna and then convert the A/m measurement into V/m. T Dave From: Eric Penne [mailto:epe...@olug.org] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 1:53 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC I'm trying to find the test equipment requirements for testing a 508kHz intentional transmitter. More specifically I'm trying to find out if the FCC wants to use a loop or rod antenna. This is a large unknown to me and I am trying to research it right now. I was hoping that some of list members may be able to give me some more information and anything "gotchas" that I should be looking for. Thanks Eric Penne epe...@olug.org This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC
I can't quote chapter and verse, but common sense says you would use a measurement antenna that measures what the transmitter is transmitting. Unless you are in the far field, which isn't going to happen, the field will be either dominantly electric or magnetic, depending on whether a rod or loop transmitting device is used. The measurement device should mirror the transmit device at the transmit frequency. If you are making out-of-band measurements, say in the AM band, then it is trickier. Your test antenna should model the presumed victim antenna. But automobiles use an electrically short rod, and most portable radios use a magnetic device. What you use will depend (standard requirements aside) on what the victim of interest happens to be. > From: "Eric Penne" > Reply-To: "Eric Penne" > Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:53:10 -0500 (CDT) > To: > Subject: 508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC > > > I'm trying to find the test equipment requirements for testing a 508kHz > intentional transmitter. More specifically I'm trying to find out if the > FCC wants to use a loop or rod antenna. This is a large unknown to me and > I am trying to research it right now. I was hoping that some of list > members may be able to give me some more information and anything > "gotchas" that I should be looking for. > > Thanks > Eric Penne > epe...@olug.org > > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
508kHz Intentional Radiator FCC
I'm trying to find the test equipment requirements for testing a 508kHz intentional transmitter. More specifically I'm trying to find out if the FCC wants to use a loop or rod antenna. This is a large unknown to me and I am trying to research it right now. I was hoping that some of list members may be able to give me some more information and anything "gotchas" that I should be looking for. Thanks Eric Penne epe...@olug.org This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
