RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Cortland, If you were responding to my post re signals that don't leave the silicon, note that I pointed out that there is, at least in some cases, an output of the internal PLL which is not the advertised processor speed, but probably twice that, which is *only* used to generate the processor clock. In other words, your 1 GHz processor may have an internal PLL output of 2 GHz. [I'm basing all this on knowledge of one specific family of CPUs; others may not have this feature.] The only way you might know the actual PLL frequency is to dig into the hardware spec. of the device; many of the board designers won't know or care about this. I certainly agree that the processor clock itself is EMC important since that's what is driving all the internal bus switching and it's practically guaranteed that the harmonics will leak out onto the board etch (on bus lines even the power ground planes as common mode). Although, this hidden PLL output is certainly used per the FCC definition, I seriously doubt you will find any evidence of it with your receiver. I never have. Regardless, I do NOT recommend playing games with the rules. Regards, Jack -Original Message- From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com] Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 6:40 PM To: ieee pstc list Subject: Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic During a previous life (heh!) we had applications for FCC grants returned without action because we had applied not for the on-chip frequency, but only for the distributed clock. Actually, testing will show that is the correct approach. A 1 GHz processor can radiate enough that a 66 MHz clock is certainly not the only thing you have to worry about. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
If you want to have your grant of authorization -- or your marking -- challenged by a competitor or discovered noncompliant by the FCC, all you need to do is play games with the rules. Conservative observance of reasonable interpretations of the Rules seems prudent to me. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
If I use a 6 MHz crystal as reference in my 1296 MHz generator chain I cannot reasonably say that my test must stop at the tenth harmonic of 6 Mhz. I must test to the tenth harmonic of 1296 MHz, and in excess of 10 GHz. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Amund, If you do manage to get through, please ask about signals that never leave the silicon of an ASIC (described by Andy others). A strict interpretation of the FCC wording clearly includes all such signals, but it causes us a lot of pain, especially as frequencies continue to climb. As an example, a micro-processor we have used here has as an input, a 66 MHz clock. It then multiplies that up, to say 866 MHz (memory is fuzzy here). That output is immediately divided by 2 (presumably for a good square wave). It's that 433 MHz that's actually used for internal clocking and is published as the operating speed of that particular processor. I have no problem considering the 433 MHz as the highest fundamental even though it never gets onto an IC pin. Harmonics of that will still possibly/likely be on all the bus lines which do go out to pins and PWB etch. However, the 866 MHz is technically the highest frequency signal used even though it presumably is used only to toggle the one internal divider. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC -Original Message- From: am...@westin.org [mailto:am...@westin.org] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 8:23 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Hi all! Thanks for responding. I have tried to get in touch with some folks at FCC today, if I manage to get through, I will return with their information / interpretations. Have a nice weekend! Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:29:23 -0700 Don Rhodes don.rho...@infocus.com wrote: I second Jack's thoughts on the wording from part 15, the wording generated or used is very clear. Furthermore, it seems obvious that a PLL generates a new fundamental frequency when multiplying its input frequency. This in turn, of course, creates a new set of harmonics and subharmonics related to the PLL's output frequency. Unfortunately, the FCC's rules do not make exceptions for generated signals which are only used internal to an IC. I know, anyone who's ever struggled with the emissions from a noisy PLL, like myself, has wished for such a break in the rules. Regards, Don EMC Engineering InFocus Corp. -- From:Cook, Jack[SMTP:jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com] Reply To:Cook, Jack Sent:Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:27 PM To: 'John Harrington'; Gary McInturff Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Hi all! Thanks for responding. I have tried to get in touch with some folks at FCC today, if I manage to get through, I will return with their information / interpretations. Have a nice weekend! Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:29:23 -0700 Don Rhodes don.rho...@infocus.com wrote: I second Jack's thoughts on the wording from part 15, the wording generated or used is very clear. Furthermore, it seems obvious that a PLL generates a new fundamental frequency when multiplying its input frequency. This in turn, of course, creates a new set of harmonics and subharmonics related to the PLL's output frequency. Unfortunately, the FCC's rules do not make exceptions for generated signals which are only used internal to an IC. I know, anyone who's ever struggled with the emissions from a noisy PLL, like myself, has wished for such a break in the rules. Regards, Don EMC Engineering InFocus Corp. -- From:Cook, Jack[SMTP:jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com] Reply To:Cook, Jack Sent:Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:27 PM To: 'John Harrington'; Gary McInturff Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
I second Jack's thoughts on the wording from part 15, the wording generated or used is very clear. Furthermore, it seems obvious that a PLL generates a new fundamental frequency when multiplying its input frequency. This in turn, of course, creates a new set of harmonics and subharmonics related to the PLL's output frequency. Unfortunately, the FCC's rules do not make exceptions for generated signals which are only used internal to an IC. I know, anyone who's ever struggled with the emissions from a noisy PLL, like myself, has wished for such a break in the rules. Regards, Don EMC Engineering InFocus Corp. -- From: Cook, Jack[SMTP:jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com] Reply To: Cook, Jack Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:27 PM To: 'John Harrington'; Gary McInturff Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
ofcfeade86.1b04c8bc-on87256a9c.0075f...@us.datex-ohmeda.com, brent.dew...@us.datex-ohmeda.com inimitably wrote: During a previous life running a test house, we used yet another interpretation. The highest fundamental was the highest frequency brought out of any chip. If a separate VCO distributed 10x of the crystal to other chips, 10x was the number. If the multiplier was purely internal to a part like a lot of CPUs and display chips, the crystal frequency was the highest. What about the emissions from the LEDs? (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
966d119da042d21193780001fa8719c60605c...@caxmail.cax.es.xerox.com, Cook, Jack jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com inimitably wrote: So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Yes, the OP quoted FCC as well: QUOTE FCC 2.1057 is about radiated emission. They say :If the equipment operates below 10GHz: to the tenth harmonic of the highest fundamental frequency or to 40 GHz, whichever is lower. UNQUOTE Pale administrative face speak with forked tongue! (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender yesterday at the latest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Just to further muddy the waters: During a previous life running a test house, we used yet another interpretation. The highest fundamental was the highest frequency brought out of any chip. If a separate VCO distributed 10x of the crystal to other chips, 10x was the number. If the multiplier was purely internal to a part like a lot of CPUs and display chips, the crystal frequency was the highest. Brent DeWitt Datex-Ohmeda Louisville, CO John Harrington jharring...@ktlcanada.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 08/02/2001 01:42:25 PM Please respond to John Harrington jharring...@ktlcanada.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: Gary McInturff gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Gary, Amund We have always chosen the highest fundamental frequency as the highest original frequency generated, normally a crystal or other oscillator. Frequencies derived from the fundamental, via multipliers etc, are not considered as fundamental. John Harrington RF Group Manager Nemko Canada -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com To: 'am...@westin.org' am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thursday, August 02, 2001 11:59 AM Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Interesting question and there is a corollary to it. If a crystal oscillator is stepped up in frequency, with PLL circuitry for example, now what is the highest frequency. My current opinion is that for Amund's question it is the crystal frequency, and to mine, it is the PLL frequency. IN both cases they represent the highest repetitive clock speed or digitally generated frequency. Interested in seeing the other responses. Gary -Original Message- From: am...@westin.org [mailto:am...@westin.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 1:19 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Dear members, FCC 2.1057 is about radiated emission. They say :If the equipment operates below 10GHz: to the tenth harmonic of the highest fundamental frequency or to 40 GHz, whichever is lower. I ask: Highest fundamental frequency, is it the crystall oscillator with highest frequency or is it the highest operating frequency within the EUT (after mixing, muliplier, etc..) ? Best regards Amund Westin Oslo, Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Thanks, Jack. This was my opinion as well, but I've heard and seen others claiming just the opposite, In the case of my equipment we have a 125 MHz clock that is PLL'd up to 1.25Ghz for some optics. I have always tested to 6.5 GHz, but even though it seems clear I've had dissenting discussions. Thanks Gary -Original Message- From: Cook, Jack [mailto:jack.c...@cax.usa.xerox.com] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 1:27 PM To: 'John Harrington'; Gary McInturff Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
So far, I haven't seen anyone quote the actual wording in FCC Part 15. Here it is, from the table in para. 15.33 (4). Highest frequency generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) It doesn't appear to concern itself with *how* the signal is generated (ocillator, PLL, etc.) or whether it's a fundamental or not. So, it seems clear enough to me. Or maybe I'm missing something. Regards, Jack Xerox EMC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
In my experience, I have always used the highest clock generated within the device!! i.e. if a 66MHz (external) clock is taken in to a processor and a PLL then multiplies up by 8 the highest fundamental is 528MHz. The PLL circuitry is generating a free running clock [with fast rise/fall edges] albeit within the processor and the higher clock (and harmonics thereof) can couple on to the other IO entering/exiting the processor. The possibility of the processor itself being resonant at the higher harmonics also increases. Andy White, Senior EMC Engineer, Ericsson Wireless Communications Inc. San Diego, CA 92121 Tel 858 332 6214 / 877 877 7799 ext 26214 Fax 858 332 7311 e-mail andy.wh...@ericsson.com -Original Message- From: John Harrington [mailto:jharring...@ktlcanada.com] Sent: 02 August 2001 12:42 To: Gary McInturff Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Gary, Amund We have always chosen the highest fundamental frequency as the highest original frequency generated, normally a crystal or other oscillator. Frequencies derived from the fundamental, via multipliers etc, are not considered as fundamental. John Harrington RF Group Manager Nemko Canada -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com To: 'am...@westin.org' am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thursday, August 02, 2001 11:59 AM Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Interesting question and there is a corollary to it. If a crystal oscillator is stepped up in frequency, with PLL circuitry for example, now what is the highest frequency. My current opinion is that for Amund's question it is the crystal frequency, and to mine, it is the PLL frequency. IN both cases they represent the highest repetitive clock speed or digitally generated frequency. Interested in seeing the other responses. Gary -Original Message- From: am...@westin.org [mailto:am...@westin.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 1:19 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Dear members, FCC 2.1057 is about radiated emission. They say :If the equipment operates below 10GHz: to the tenth harmonic of the highest fundamental frequency or to 40 GHz, whichever is lower. I ask: Highest fundamental frequency, is it the crystall oscillator with highest frequency or is it the highest operating frequency within the EUT (after mixing, muliplier, etc..) ? Best regards Amund Westin Oslo, Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual
Re: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Gary, Amund We have always chosen the highest fundamental frequency as the highest original frequency generated, normally a crystal or other oscillator. Frequencies derived from the fundamental, via multipliers etc, are not considered as fundamental. John Harrington RF Group Manager Nemko Canada -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com To: 'am...@westin.org' am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thursday, August 02, 2001 11:59 AM Subject: RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Interesting question and there is a corollary to it. If a crystal oscillator is stepped up in frequency, with PLL circuitry for example, now what is the highest frequency. My current opinion is that for Amund's question it is the crystal frequency, and to mine, it is the PLL frequency. IN both cases they represent the highest repetitive clock speed or digitally generated frequency. Interested in seeing the other responses. Gary -Original Message- From: am...@westin.org [mailto:am...@westin.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 1:19 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Dear members, FCC 2.1057 is about radiated emission. They say :If the equipment operates below 10GHz: to the tenth harmonic of the highest fundamental frequency or to 40 GHz, whichever is lower. I ask: Highest fundamental frequency, is it the crystall oscillator with highest frequency or is it the highest operating frequency within the EUT (after mixing, muliplier, etc..) ? Best regards Amund Westin Oslo, Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Interesting question and there is a corollary to it. If a crystal oscillator is stepped up in frequency, with PLL circuitry for example, now what is the highest frequency. My current opinion is that for Amund's question it is the crystal frequency, and to mine, it is the PLL frequency. IN both cases they represent the highest repetitive clock speed or digitally generated frequency. Interested in seeing the other responses. Gary -Original Message- From: am...@westin.org [mailto:am...@westin.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 1:19 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic Dear members, FCC 2.1057 is about radiated emission. They say :If the equipment operates below 10GHz: to the tenth harmonic of the highest fundamental frequency or to 40 GHz, whichever is lower. I ask: Highest fundamental frequency, is it the crystall oscillator with highest frequency or is it the highest operating frequency within the EUT (after mixing, muliplier, etc..) ? Best regards Amund Westin Oslo, Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
FCC - radiated emission up to 10th harmonic
Dear members, FCC 2.1057 is about radiated emission. They say :If the equipment operates below 10GHz: to the tenth harmonic of the highest fundamental frequency or to 40 GHz, whichever is lower. I ask: Highest fundamental frequency, is it the crystall oscillator with highest frequency or is it the highest operating frequency within the EUT (after mixing, muliplier, etc..) ? Best regards Amund Westin Oslo, Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
