RE: Hi-Pot OK labels
Andrew, Hi-Pot OK ink stamp is unacceptable to most NRTLs and European test agencies. Keep up with the paper record. Imagine this scenario: A production line employee is applying a 100% voltage but forgets to put the equipment on/off swich in the ON position (ie not subjecting the whole primary circuit to the hi-pot voltage test). After shipping hundreds of units, problems of insulation failure are detected in the field. How on earth are you going to know which units were affected without having the proper paper records? This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 -Original Message- From: Veit, Andy [mailto:andy.v...@mts.com] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:36 PM To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum Subject: Re: Hi-Pot OK labels Forum- We are currently retaining a paper copy of the manufacturing/QC checklist (includes hi-pot/ground-bond data) for each serial number shipped. I am curious to know how NRTL's view the use of an Hi-Pot OK ink stamp on the product in lieu of keeping a paper record? Or is this a common practice in the industry and not typically an issue? I like the idea because it solves several issues in one step: stickers falling off, visual proof of testing, reducing paperwork, and the chance of a paper record getting misplaced. Thanks- -Andy Andrew Veit Systems Design Engineer MTS Systems Corp Ph: 919.677.2507 Fax: 919.677.2480 1001 Sheldon Drive Cary, NC 27513 -Original Message- From: ron_du...@agilent.com [mailto:ron_du...@agilent.com] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:34 PM To: Veit, Andy; ron_du...@agilent.com Subject: RE: Hi-Pot OK labels Hi Andy, I have had no problem with the NRTLs. Way don't you challenge the practice on the emc-pstc? Maybe there is some people from the NRTLs that can give a answer. The ink we use is Stadia 71-476BLK. Their number 800-765-6600. Ron Duffy Product Safety Engineer Design Validation Unit Agilent Technologies 1900 Garden of the Gods Road Colorado Springs, CO 80907-3483 719 590 2335 Tel 719 590 3033 Fax www.agilent.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Hi-Pot OK labels
Forum- We are currently retaining a paper copy of the manufacturing/QC checklist (includes hi-pot/ground-bond data) for each serial number shipped. I am curious to know how NRTL's view the use of an Hi-Pot OK ink stamp on the product in lieu of keeping a paper record? Or is this a common practice in the industry and not typically an issue? I like the idea because it solves several issues in one step: stickers falling off, visual proof of testing, reducing paperwork, and the chance of a paper record getting misplaced. Thanks- -Andy Andrew Veit Systems Design Engineer MTS Systems Corp Ph: 919.677.2507 Fax: 919.677.2480 1001 Sheldon Drive Cary, NC 27513 -Original Message- From: ron_du...@agilent.com [mailto:ron_du...@agilent.com] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:34 PM To: Veit, Andy; ron_du...@agilent.com Subject: RE: Hi-Pot OK labels Hi Andy, I have had no problem with the NRTLs. Way don't you challenge the practice on the emc-pstc? Maybe there is some people from the NRTLs that can give a answer. The ink we use is Stadia 71-476BLK. Their number 800-765-6600. Ron Duffy Product Safety Engineer Design Validation Unit Agilent Technologies 1900 Garden of the Gods Road Colorado Springs, CO 80907-3483 719 590 2335 Tel 719 590 3033 Fax www.agilent.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Hi-Pot OK labels
I understand that a label is not required. I asked in reference to a component (Telecom DC power cable) that we make in-house. They aren't serialized, so we aren't going to keep a test result database cross-referencing serial numbers ...as we would for serialized products. We also aren't going to NRTL mark the cables. It boils down to a quality issue more than anything. I was just looking into an efficient way for our manufacturing guys to identify the tested cables from the untested cables as they are being routed and stored. I was looking into the labels as an option. A few of the responses have inspired me to look into other, more simple means such as stamping Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [SMTP:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 12:49 PM To: Chris Maxwell Cc: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum Subject: Re: Hi-Pot OK labels Chris, As I understand it, there is no standards requirement on how or were or if a OK hi-pot mark is required. An initial factory inspection for a ITE product (UL, CSA, TUV,...) will usually require that the hi-pot process in place ensures no walk-arounds, but does not require marking. Typically, we require the hi-pot operator to scan the bar code on or near the power rating label, which identifies the S/N of the unit. This is fed to computers which maintain a database of scanned (and presumably hi-potted) units. For your own quality purposes, a label, indelible mark, etc. are all acceptable, but not required, means of tracking this. As to agency marks, it was once common for each to sell rolls of marks not unlike the way some postage stamps are done. However, most mfrs evolved to a single power rating label which incorpoates the marks in the artwork at less cost than stickering separate agency marks. I had thought that the individual stickers were still available, at a price, from the main agencies. George Alspaugh Chris Maxwell chris.maxwell%nettest@interlock.lexmark.com on 11/28/2001 04:16:37 PM Please respond to Chris Maxwell chris.maxwell%nettest@interlock.lexmark.com To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Hi-Pot OK labels Hi all, I previously asked about Hi-Pot testing and NRTL labeling. Ok, so there is no such thing as a standard UL, CSA ... label that can be purchased. Although the logos are available on the website, the labels have to be re-invented for every company (yawn). Seems like a waste of time to me.. but in these days of layoffs... I guess every excuse for employment is OK. How about the little Hi-Pot OK labels that I have seen? I would assume that these are widely used. Any sources for these? Or do we have to go to a print shop and pay a tooling charge to make our own (what a waste)? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Hi-Pot OK labels
Chris, As I understand it, there is no standards requirement on how or were or if a OK hi-pot mark is required. An initial factory inspection for a ITE product (UL, CSA, TUV,...) will usually require that the hi-pot process in place ensures no walk-arounds, but does not require marking. Typically, we require the hi-pot operator to scan the bar code on or near the power rating label, which identifies the S/N of the unit. This is fed to computers which maintain a database of scanned (and presumably hi-potted) units. For your own quality purposes, a label, indelible mark, etc. are all acceptable, but not required, means of tracking this. As to agency marks, it was once common for each to sell rolls of marks not unlike the way some postage stamps are done. However, most mfrs evolved to a single power rating label which incorpoates the marks in the artwork at less cost than stickering separate agency marks. I had thought that the individual stickers were still available, at a price, from the main agencies. George Alspaugh Chris Maxwell chris.maxwell%nettest@interlock.lexmark.com on 11/28/2001 04:16:37 PM Please respond to Chris Maxwell chris.maxwell%nettest@interlock.lexmark.com To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Hi-Pot OK labels Hi all, I previously asked about Hi-Pot testing and NRTL labeling. Ok, so there is no such thing as a standard UL, CSA ... label that can be purchased. Although the logos are available on the website, the labels have to be re-invented for every company (yawn). Seems like a waste of time to me.. but in these days of layoffs... I guess every excuse for employment is OK. How about the little Hi-Pot OK labels that I have seen? I would assume that these are widely used. Any sources for these? Or do we have to go to a print shop and pay a tooling charge to make our own (what a waste)? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Hi-Pot OK labels
Hi Chris, I first would ask way do you need the label? If it is to validate the process, then any label you purchase would be ok. If it is proof that a required safety test was preformed on a product for protection during litigation it is any entirely different matter. Here at the Design Validation Unit of Agilent we had required the person performing the hi-pot test to complete the safety portion of the paper work immediately after the hi-pot test. This paper work was then archived for very long time as dictated in our records retention policy, in our case 35 years. This became quite a burden. For an alternative we started stamping our products with a rubber stamp using an ink that was very tenacious. Now if we need proof of a safety test during litigation the product its self is the proof. Ron Duffy Product Safety Engineer Design Validation Unit Agilent Technologies 1900 Garden of the Gods Road Colorado Springs, CO 80907-3483 719 590 2335 Tel 719 590 3033 Fax www.agilent.com -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 14:17 To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum Subject: Hi-Pot OK labels Hi all, I previously asked about Hi-Pot testing and NRTL labeling. Ok, so there is no such thing as a standard UL, CSA ... label that can be purchased. Although the logos are available on the website, the labels have to be re-invented for every company (yawn). Seems like a waste of time to me.. but in these days of layoffs... I guess every excuse for employment is OK. How about the little Hi-Pot OK labels that I have seen? I would assume that these are widely used. Any sources for these? Or do we have to go to a print shop and pay a tooling charge to make our own (what a waste)? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Hi-Pot OK labels
Chris, I think you have to generate your own labels or buy them to order. Size would be an issue. Proper glue would be another issue depending upon the surface material these labels are to be affixed (metal, plastic), since certain glues do not adhere to certain plastics.These Hi-pot OK labels are very likely part of an internal Quality Control process which provides visual differentiation between those that have been tested from those that have not. taniagr...@msn.com - Original Message - From: Chris Maxwell Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 2:19 PM To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum Subject: Hi-Pot OK labels Hi all, I previously asked about Hi-Pot testing and NRTL labeling. Ok, so there is no such thing as a standard UL, CSA ... label that can be purchased. Although the logos are available on the website, the labels have to be re-invented for every company (yawn). Seems like a waste of time to me.. but in these days of layoffs... I guess every excuse for employment is OK. How about the little Hi-Pot OK labels that I have seen? I would assume that these are widely used. Any sources for these? Or do we have to go to a print shop and pay a tooling charge to make our own (what a waste)? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Hi-Pot OK labels
Hi Chris, How about the little Hi-Pot OK labels that I have seen? I would assume that these are widely used. Any sources for these? Or do we have to go to a print shop and pay a tooling charge to make our own (what a waste)? Why constrict yourself to just labels? We authorize either labelling, stamping or whatever method is convenient for manufacturing. However, whatever marking is utilized, it must be permanent and located in specified locations. As a followup, this marking and other certification labels are checked for permenance during internal audits. IHTH. Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Hi-Pot OK labels
Hi all, I previously asked about Hi-Pot testing and NRTL labeling. Ok, so there is no such thing as a standard UL, CSA ... label that can be purchased. Although the logos are available on the website, the labels have to be re-invented for every company (yawn). Seems like a waste of time to me.. but in these days of layoffs... I guess every excuse for employment is OK. How about the little Hi-Pot OK labels that I have seen? I would assume that these are widely used. Any sources for these? Or do we have to go to a print shop and pay a tooling charge to make our own (what a waste)? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
