RE: Battery terminals isolation
Hi Folks Another possibility: try to find fully-insulated quick-release terminals which have a manually-operated lock and don't require a tool. (We had to do this recently when we had a similar problem with batteries n confined spaces in vehicles) John Allen Thales Defence Ltd Bracknell, UK -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: 01 March 2001 15:16 To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Battery terminals isolation John: How about an insulated wrench? Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppression of Consumer Electronics (After sale) - Original Message - From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Battery terminals isolation sa9d1398.077@sao0002n, SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES SERGIO sergioro...@siemens.com.br inimitably wrote: Can the group tell me if there is any requirement about isolations of lead acid battery terminals? We have a 48V equipment powered by lead acid batteries. The negative of the batteries set is connected to the enclosure. When the batteries need to be replaced, short circuit happens if the tool used to detach the connectors touch the enclosure and the positive of the batteries. Information to disconnect the negative terminal first before replace the batteries is clear in the service manual, but I don't know if only this is sufficient. I don't know of anything explicit in any standard, but the consequences of shorting a 48 V battery could be very serious, up to loss-of-life. Therefore I would think in terms of the General Safety Directive, which says, in effect, 'make it safe, then make it safer'. So: - put a warning notice **next to the battery** saying 'Disconnect THIS terminal first.' Don't rely on a drunken blind, idiot knowing which is the negative one. - if possible, fix to the negative connector a plastic shield that covers up the positive terminal and connector, so you can't even get at the positive terminal without first removing the negative one. If you need to be able to measure the battery voltage with a multimeter, put a small hole in the shield that will just admit a test-prod. You could perhaps put the warning notice on the shield itself. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Battery terminals isolation
008a01c0a262$97a76a80$0f133ad8@zi8755, Ralph Cameron ral...@igs.net inimitably wrote: How about an insulated wrench? Missing, just when you want it. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Battery terminals isolation
John: How about an insulated wrench? Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppression of Consumer Electronics (After sale) - Original Message - From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Battery terminals isolation sa9d1398.077@sao0002n, SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES SERGIO sergioro...@siemens.com.br inimitably wrote: Can the group tell me if there is any requirement about isolations of lead acid battery terminals? We have a 48V equipment powered by lead acid batteries. The negative of the batteries set is connected to the enclosure. When the batteries need to be replaced, short circuit happens if the tool used to detach the connectors touch the enclosure and the positive of the batteries. Information to disconnect the negative terminal first before replace the batteries is clear in the service manual, but I don't know if only this is sufficient. I don't know of anything explicit in any standard, but the consequences of shorting a 48 V battery could be very serious, up to loss-of-life. Therefore I would think in terms of the General Safety Directive, which says, in effect, 'make it safe, then make it safer'. So: - put a warning notice **next to the battery** saying 'Disconnect THIS terminal first.' Don't rely on a drunken blind, idiot knowing which is the negative one. - if possible, fix to the negative connector a plastic shield that covers up the positive terminal and connector, so you can't even get at the positive terminal without first removing the negative one. If you need to be able to measure the battery voltage with a multimeter, put a small hole in the shield that will just admit a test-prod. You could perhaps put the warning notice on the shield itself. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Battery terminals isolation
sa9d1398.077@sao0002n, SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES SERGIO sergioro...@siemens.com.br inimitably wrote: Can the group tell me if there is any requirement about isolations of lead acid battery terminals? We have a 48V equipment powered by lead acid batteries. The negative of the batteries set is connected to the enclosure. When the batteries need to be replaced, short circuit happens if the tool used to detach the connectors touch the enclosure and the positive of the batteries. Information to disconnect the negative terminal first before replace the batteries is clear in the service manual, but I don't know if only this is sufficient. I don't know of anything explicit in any standard, but the consequences of shorting a 48 V battery could be very serious, up to loss-of-life. Therefore I would think in terms of the General Safety Directive, which says, in effect, 'make it safe, then make it safer'. So: - put a warning notice **next to the battery** saying 'Disconnect THIS terminal first.' Don't rely on a drunken blind, idiot knowing which is the negative one. - if possible, fix to the negative connector a plastic shield that covers up the positive terminal and connector, so you can't even get at the positive terminal without first removing the negative one. If you need to be able to measure the battery voltage with a multimeter, put a small hole in the shield that will just admit a test-prod. You could perhaps put the warning notice on the shield itself. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Battery terminals isolation
I can't help with a definitive answer, but the exact same situation exists in automobiles, right? I have never seen a car where I couldn't have made a connection between B+ and the fender wells using a socket or open end wrench. -- From: SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES SERGIO sergioro...@siemens.com.br To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Battery terminals isolation Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001, 12:04 PM Can the group tell me if there is any requirement about isolations of lead acid battery terminals? We have a 48V equipment powered by lead acid batteries. The negative of the batteries set is connected to the enclosure. When the batteries need to be replaced, short circuit happens if the tool used to detach the connectors touch the enclosure and the positive of the batteries. Information to disconnect the negative terminal first before replace the batteries is clear in the service manual, but I don't know if only this is sufficient. Regards Sérgio Rocha Loures Siemens Ltda. - Brazil ICN FL QEL Tel: +55 41 341-5755 Fax: +55 41 341-5058 E-mail: sergioro...@siemens.com.br --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Battery terminals isolation
In most safety standards there are requirements for Energy Hazards that could result in arcing or ejection of molted metal caused by short circuit between adjacent poles. Large (car size) batteries definitely fall under this category with their low impedance. UL1950 under General Principles says protect by separation, shielding, or safety interlocks. Darrell Locke Advanced Input Devices -Original Message- From: SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES SERGIO [mailto:sergioro...@siemens.com.br] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:04 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Battery terminals isolation Can the group tell me if there is any requirement about isolations of lead acid battery terminals? We have a 48V equipment powered by lead acid batteries. The negative of the batteries set is connected to the enclosure. When the batteries need to be replaced, short circuit happens if the tool used to detach the connectors touch the enclosure and the positive of the batteries. Information to disconnect the negative terminal first before replace the batteries is clear in the service manual, but I don't know if only this is sufficient. Regards Sérgio Rocha Loures Siemens Ltda. - Brazil ICN FL QEL Tel: +55 41 341-5755 Fax: +55 41 341-5058 E-mail: sergioro...@siemens.com.br --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Battery terminals isolation
Hi Sérgio, You might consider including warnings in the installation and service guides as well as labels indicating an energy hazard presence with instructions to refer to the proper manuals at least (to better define the hazard). Caution statements regarding removal of jewelry (i.e. bracelets, necklaces, etc.) and also on the use of protective eye-wear, insulated gloves and insulated tools might be a further consideration. If your equipment is intended for service personnel only, the assumption might still be made that they will be properly trained in the inherent hazards of dealing with lead-acid batteries and but much of that message must come from your end as the manufacturer. For design based safety requirements, check 60950 third ed. cl. 2.1.2 and 2.1.3. Both indicate the requirement to protect against unintentional bridging by conductive materials via the use of location or guarding. Compliance is checked by measurement and inspection while considering whether or not unintentional contact is likely if there's a need to get near or past the energized parts (would seem to apply ). The standard also includes labeling requirements in dealing with energy hazards. My opinion only and not that of my employer. Cheers, Kaz Gawrzyjal kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com -Original Message- From: SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES SERGIO [mailto:sergioro...@siemens.com.br] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 12:04 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Battery terminals isolation Can the group tell me if there is any requirement about isolations of lead acid battery terminals? We have a 48V equipment powered by lead acid batteries. The negative of the batteries set is connected to the enclosure. When the batteries need to be replaced, short circuit happens if the tool used to detach the connectors touch the enclosure and the positive of the batteries. Information to disconnect the negative terminal first before replace the batteries is clear in the service manual, but I don't know if only this is sufficient. Regards Sérgio Rocha Loures Siemens Ltda. - Brazil ICN FL QEL Tel: +55 41 341-5755 Fax: +55 41 341-5058 E-mail: sergioro...@siemens.com.br --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
