RE: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
Earl, Thanks. Is it possible to detect the problem by INTEL's Verification persons before shipping the product to customers? Recall is a very tough decision for any company to make. I understand that intermittent problems are difficult to screen. But we may use temperature cycling, or spot hot/cool to precipitate some latent EMC/SI problems and then detect them as early as during design stage, if the design engineer is not sure about the noise budget he used or hard to compromise with other margins. -barry -- On Mon, 15 May 2000, "Morse, Earl" wrote: > > Barry, > > Probably a ground bounce problem. If Intel violated or marginally violated > its noise budget then it could cause these types of errors. . > > Earl Morse > Portable Division EMC Design > Compaq Computer Corporation > Phone: 281.927.3607 > Pager: 713.717.0824 > Fax: 281.927.3654 > Email: earl.mo...@compaq.com > > Emissions Control Laboratory > 10320 Rodgers Road, EC106 > Houst, TX 77070 > > > > -Original Message- > From: Barry Ma [mailto:barry...@altavista.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 6:13 PM > To: EMC-PSTC > Subject: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard > > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/2510/tc/chip_noise_halts_intel_820_production_1.html > > INTEL will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise caused > by simultaneous switching of signals. > > > Can anybody be more specific or just make a speculation by using EMC > language? > > Another question is irrelevant to EMC. I am wondering why it took so long - > five months from field failure report to recreating the problem inside > INTEL? See quotation below: > > First noted in November > "Intel began shipping the MTH last November. The problem was brought to > light by an Intel customer who observed the problem Intel followed up on > the report and observed the problem in its own tests earlier this month." > > > > Barry Ma > b...@anritsu.com ___ Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
Well, I'm glad you have your body armour on and properly adjusted. One
problem, when that load of napalm hits your going to wish it was only
bullets.
> JOHN E. STUCKEY
> EMC Engineer
>
> Micron Technology, Inc.
> Integrated Products Group
> Micron Architectures Lab
> 8455 West Emerald St.
> Boise, Idaho 83704
> PH: (208) 363-5313
> FX: (208) 363-5596
> jestuc...@micron.com
>
>
-Original Message-
From: Lacey,Scott [mailto:sla...@foxboro.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 11:29
To: 'David Spencer'
Cc: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject: RE: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
In defense of Intel (please wait a moment while I don my full body armor),
this is probably one of those things that only occurs on alternate rainy
Tuesdays when using certain specific brands of SDRAM.
Scott Lacey
-Original Message-
From: David Spencer [SMTP:dspen...@oresis.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:52 PM
To: EMC-PSTC
Subject:RE: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
Filed under "Things that make you go hmmm."
Was this a major Product Verification screw up?
Or a carefully crafted marketing plan to increase demand for RDRAM?
Have a Great Day,
Dave Spencer
Oresis Communications
-Original Message-
From: Paul J Smith [mailto:paul_j_sm...@notes.teradyne.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:21 AM
To: Barry Ma
Cc: EMC-PSTC
Subject: Re: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
Barry,
Thanks for the heads-up. Article was also published by AP in today's
Boston
Globe. The following excerpt is from the site you noted
Regards, Paul J. Smith
Teradyne, Boston
Chip maker will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to
noise
caused
by simultaneous switching of
signals.
Intel Corp. has acknowledged another setback for PCs using its 820
chip
set.
The company announced Wednesday morning that it will replace
motherboards
using
its 820 chip set that are exhibiting
symptoms of a problem with a related component -- called a memory
translator
hub, or MTH -- with synchronous dynamic
RAM (SDRAM).
While the hub is not part of the 820 itself, it
is
required
on a motherboard that uses SDRAM. It
enables the chip set, which was designed to
work with
Rambus dynamic RAM (RDRAM), to use
less expensive, more readily available SDRAM.
"We have found that some systems ... may be
sensitive
to
system board noise," an Intel
spokesman said.
Hangs and reboots
The MTH problem, which manifests itself by
system hangs
and
intermittent system reboots, is due
to noise caused by simultaneous switching of
signals on
the
MTH buses, Intel officials said.
Intel is working with PC and motherboard makers
to
notify
computer users of the problem and to
offer a replacement motherboard. Intel plans to replace all the 820
motherboards with SDRAM support that it sold directly
to customers with an Intel 820 chip set motherboard with RDRAM
memory.
Computer users who believe they are
affected should
contact their manufacturers, or they can
check Intel's Web site, where they can
download the
MTH
ID Utility to test for the presence
of the hub.
The MTH support site also includes
additional
information on the problems.
"We believe less than 1 million boards with the MTH have been
shipped to
customers," an Intel spokesman said. However,
"since we have determined no root cause on this issue, we have
decided to
offer
a replacement."
Barry Ma on 05/10/2000 07:12:33 PM
Please respond to Barry Ma
To: EMC-PSTC
cc:(bcc: Paul J Smith/Bos/Teradyne)
Subject: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/2510/tc/chip_noise_halts_intel_820_produ
ction_1.html
INTEL will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise
caused
by
simultaneous switching of signals.
Can anybody be more specific or just make a speculation by using EMC
language?
Another question is irrelevant to
RE: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
In defense of Intel (please wait a moment while I don my full body armor),
this is probably one of those things that only occurs on alternate rainy
Tuesdays when using certain specific brands of SDRAM.
Scott Lacey
-Original Message-
From: David Spencer [SMTP:dspen...@oresis.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 12:52 PM
To: EMC-PSTC
Subject:RE: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
Filed under "Things that make you go hmmm."
Was this a major Product Verification screw up?
Or a carefully crafted marketing plan to increase demand for RDRAM?
Have a Great Day,
Dave Spencer
Oresis Communications
-Original Message-
From: Paul J Smith [mailto:paul_j_sm...@notes.teradyne.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:21 AM
To: Barry Ma
Cc: EMC-PSTC
Subject: Re: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
Barry,
Thanks for the heads-up. Article was also published by AP in today's
Boston
Globe. The following excerpt is from the site you noted
Regards, Paul J. Smith
Teradyne, Boston
Chip maker will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to
noise
caused
by simultaneous switching of
signals.
Intel Corp. has acknowledged another setback for PCs using its 820
chip
set.
The company announced Wednesday morning that it will replace
motherboards
using
its 820 chip set that are exhibiting
symptoms of a problem with a related component -- called a memory
translator
hub, or MTH -- with synchronous dynamic
RAM (SDRAM).
While the hub is not part of the 820 itself, it
is
required
on a motherboard that uses SDRAM. It
enables the chip set, which was designed to
work with
Rambus dynamic RAM (RDRAM), to use
less expensive, more readily available SDRAM.
"We have found that some systems ... may be
sensitive
to
system board noise," an Intel
spokesman said.
Hangs and reboots
The MTH problem, which manifests itself by
system hangs
and
intermittent system reboots, is due
to noise caused by simultaneous switching of
signals on
the
MTH buses, Intel officials said.
Intel is working with PC and motherboard makers
to
notify
computer users of the problem and to
offer a replacement motherboard. Intel plans to replace all the 820
motherboards with SDRAM support that it sold directly
to customers with an Intel 820 chip set motherboard with RDRAM
memory.
Computer users who believe they are
affected should
contact their manufacturers, or they can
check Intel's Web site, where they can
download the
MTH
ID Utility to test for the presence
of the hub.
The MTH support site also includes
additional
information on the problems.
"We believe less than 1 million boards with the MTH have been
shipped to
customers," an Intel spokesman said. However,
"since we have determined no root cause on this issue, we have
decided to
offer
a replacement."
Barry Ma on 05/10/2000 07:12:33 PM
Please respond to Barry Ma
To: EMC-PSTC
cc:(bcc: Paul J Smith/Bos/Teradyne)
Subject: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/2510/tc/chip_noise_halts_intel_820_produ
ction_1.html
INTEL will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise
caused
by
simultaneous switching of signals.
Can anybody be more specific or just make a speculation by using EMC
language?
Another question is irrelevant to EMC. I am wondering why it took so
long -
five
months from field failure report to recreating the problem inside
INTEL? See
quotation below:
First noted in November
"Intel began shipping the MTH last November. The problem was brought
to
light by
an Intel customer who observed the problem Intel followed up on
the
report
and observed the problem in its own tests earlier this month."
Barry Ma
b...@anritsu.com
___
Why pay when you don't have to? Get Alta
Re: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
I was wondering why the Intel stock took a dive that more excessive than the market dive. The analysts probably recieved a heads up from some industry wag. Jim Freeman Paul J Smith wrote: > Barry, > > Thanks for the heads-up. Article was also published by AP in today's Boston > Globe. The following excerpt is from the site you noted > > Regards, Paul J. Smith > Teradyne, Boston > > Chip maker will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise > caused > by simultaneous switching of > signals. > > Intel Corp. has acknowledged another setback for PCs using its 820 chip set. > > The company announced Wednesday morning that it will replace motherboards > using > its 820 chip set that are exhibiting > symptoms of a problem with a related component -- called a memory translator > hub, or MTH -- with synchronous dynamic > RAM (SDRAM). > > While the hub is not part of the 820 itself, it is > required > on a motherboard that uses SDRAM. It > enables the chip set, which was designed to work with > Rambus dynamic RAM (RDRAM), to use > less expensive, more readily available SDRAM. > > "We have found that some systems ... may be sensitive to > system board noise," an Intel > spokesman said. > > Hangs and reboots > > The MTH problem, which manifests itself by system hangs > and > intermittent system reboots, is due > to noise caused by simultaneous switching of signals on > the > MTH buses, Intel officials said. > > Intel is working with PC and motherboard makers to notify > computer users of the problem and to > offer a replacement motherboard. Intel plans to replace all the 820 > motherboards with SDRAM support that it sold directly > to customers with an Intel 820 chip set motherboard with RDRAM memory. > > Computer users who believe they are affected should > contact their manufacturers, or they can > check Intel's Web site, where they can download the > MTH > ID Utility to test for the presence > of the hub. > > The MTH support site also includes additional > information on the problems. > > "We believe less than 1 million boards with the MTH have been shipped to > customers," an Intel spokesman said. However, > "since we have determined no root cause on this issue, we have decided to > offer > a replacement." > > Barry Ma on 05/10/2000 07:12:33 PM > > Please respond to Barry Ma > > To: EMC-PSTC > cc:(bcc: Paul J Smith/Bos/Teradyne) > Subject: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/2510/tc/chip_noise_halts_intel_820_production_1.html > > INTEL will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise caused by > simultaneous switching of signals. > > > Can anybody be more specific or just make a speculation by using EMC language? > > Another question is irrelevant to EMC. I am wondering why it took so long - > five > months from field failure report to recreating the problem inside INTEL? See > quotation below: > > First noted in November > "Intel began shipping the MTH last November. The problem was brought to light > by > an Intel customer who observed the problem Intel followed up on the report > and observed the problem in its own tests earlier this month." > > Barry Ma > b...@anritsu.com > > ___ > > Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! > http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go > > ___ > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Techni
RE: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
Filed under "Things that make you go hmmm." Was this a major Product Verification screw up? Or a carefully crafted marketing plan to increase demand for RDRAM? Have a Great Day, Dave Spencer Oresis Communications -Original Message- From: Paul J Smith [mailto:paul_j_sm...@notes.teradyne.com] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 7:21 AM To: Barry Ma Cc: EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard Barry, Thanks for the heads-up. Article was also published by AP in today's Boston Globe. The following excerpt is from the site you noted Regards, Paul J. Smith Teradyne, Boston Chip maker will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise caused by simultaneous switching of signals. Intel Corp. has acknowledged another setback for PCs using its 820 chip set. The company announced Wednesday morning that it will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set that are exhibiting symptoms of a problem with a related component -- called a memory translator hub, or MTH -- with synchronous dynamic RAM (SDRAM). While the hub is not part of the 820 itself, it is required on a motherboard that uses SDRAM. It enables the chip set, which was designed to work with Rambus dynamic RAM (RDRAM), to use less expensive, more readily available SDRAM. "We have found that some systems ... may be sensitive to system board noise," an Intel spokesman said. Hangs and reboots The MTH problem, which manifests itself by system hangs and intermittent system reboots, is due to noise caused by simultaneous switching of signals on the MTH buses, Intel officials said. Intel is working with PC and motherboard makers to notify computer users of the problem and to offer a replacement motherboard. Intel plans to replace all the 820 motherboards with SDRAM support that it sold directly to customers with an Intel 820 chip set motherboard with RDRAM memory. Computer users who believe they are affected should contact their manufacturers, or they can check Intel's Web site, where they can download the MTH ID Utility to test for the presence of the hub. The MTH support site also includes additional information on the problems. "We believe less than 1 million boards with the MTH have been shipped to customers," an Intel spokesman said. However, "since we have determined no root cause on this issue, we have decided to offer a replacement." Barry Ma on 05/10/2000 07:12:33 PM Please respond to Barry Ma To: EMC-PSTC cc:(bcc: Paul J Smith/Bos/Teradyne) Subject: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/2510/tc/chip_noise_halts_intel_820_produ ction_1.html INTEL will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise caused by simultaneous switching of signals. Can anybody be more specific or just make a speculation by using EMC language? Another question is irrelevant to EMC. I am wondering why it took so long - five months from field failure report to recreating the problem inside INTEL? See quotation below: First noted in November "Intel began shipping the MTH last November. The problem was brought to light by an Intel customer who observed the problem Intel followed up on the report and observed the problem in its own tests earlier this month." Barry Ma b...@anritsu.com ___ Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
> -Original Message- > From: Barry Ma [SMTP:barry...@altavista.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4:13 PM > To: EMC-PSTC > Subject: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/2510/tc/chip_noise_halts_intel_820_pro > duction_1.html > > INTEL will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise caused > by simultaneous switching of signals. > > > Can anybody be more specific or just make a speculation by using EMC > language? > > Another question is irrelevant to EMC. I am wondering why it took so long > - five months from field failure report to recreating the problem inside > INTEL? See quotation below: > > First noted in November > "Intel began shipping the MTH last November. The problem was brought to > light by an Intel customer who observed the problem Intel followed up > on the report and observed the problem in its own tests earlier this > month." > > > > Barry Ma > b...@anritsu.com > Barry: My guess is that they must have spent a lot of time rebooting Windows. >;) Ed :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard
Barry, Thanks for the heads-up. Article was also published by AP in today's Boston Globe. The following excerpt is from the site you noted Regards, Paul J. Smith Teradyne, Boston Chip maker will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise caused by simultaneous switching of signals. Intel Corp. has acknowledged another setback for PCs using its 820 chip set. The company announced Wednesday morning that it will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set that are exhibiting symptoms of a problem with a related component -- called a memory translator hub, or MTH -- with synchronous dynamic RAM (SDRAM). While the hub is not part of the 820 itself, it is required on a motherboard that uses SDRAM. It enables the chip set, which was designed to work with Rambus dynamic RAM (RDRAM), to use less expensive, more readily available SDRAM. "We have found that some systems ... may be sensitive to system board noise," an Intel spokesman said. Hangs and reboots The MTH problem, which manifests itself by system hangs and intermittent system reboots, is due to noise caused by simultaneous switching of signals on the MTH buses, Intel officials said. Intel is working with PC and motherboard makers to notify computer users of the problem and to offer a replacement motherboard. Intel plans to replace all the 820 motherboards with SDRAM support that it sold directly to customers with an Intel 820 chip set motherboard with RDRAM memory. Computer users who believe they are affected should contact their manufacturers, or they can check Intel's Web site, where they can download the MTH ID Utility to test for the presence of the hub. The MTH support site also includes additional information on the problems. "We believe less than 1 million boards with the MTH have been shipped to customers," an Intel spokesman said. However, "since we have determined no root cause on this issue, we have decided to offer a replacement." Barry Ma on 05/10/2000 07:12:33 PM Please respond to Barry Ma To: EMC-PSTC cc:(bcc: Paul J Smith/Bos/Teradyne) Subject: Chip noise halts Intel 820 motherboard http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/2510/tc/chip_noise_halts_intel_820_production_1.html INTEL will replace motherboards using its 820 chip set due to noise caused by simultaneous switching of signals. Can anybody be more specific or just make a speculation by using EMC language? Another question is irrelevant to EMC. I am wondering why it took so long - five months from field failure report to recreating the problem inside INTEL? See quotation below: First noted in November "Intel began shipping the MTH last November. The problem was brought to light by an Intel customer who observed the problem Intel followed up on the report and observed the problem in its own tests earlier this month." Barry Ma b...@anritsu.com ___ Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go ___ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
