RE: EEC compliance for a ground based radar
The RTTE Directive, Article 1 Scope and aim, Clause 5 states: 5. This Directive shall not apply to apparatus exclusively used for activities concerning public security, defence, State security (including the economic well-being of the State in the case of activities pertaining to State security matters) and the activities of the State in the area of criminal law. Therefore this Directive does not apply to equipment used EXCLUSIVELY for military use. Thus weapons aiming radar would be exempt but air-traffic control radar might not be if it was also controlling civilian traffic. Nevertheless, even if such radar were claimed to be exempt, it could still interfer with radar used for civilian purposes - and after Sept 11th, it might be every difficult to justify that an ATC radar for military use does not also have civilian applications and vice-versa! So I think an exemption could be difficult to argue legally - interpretations may vary between EU countries and their differing legal system, John Allen Thales Bracknell, UK -Original Message- From: plaw...@west.net [mailto:plaw...@west.net] Sent: 31 January 2002 21:21 To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar Does operating frequency affect the issue? If the radar system is in an official ISM frequency band, use CISPR 11, but if operating outside the those bands treat is as an RTTE device? Also, what about the market served? The original poster seems to have a position with a military contractor. Does CISPR 11 and/or the RTTE directive apply to military equipment? On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:07:02 -0500, richwo...@tycoint.com wrote: Hold on a second. Why is it considered ISM and not RTTE? Seems to me that it is subject to the RTTE Directive in that it uses the spectrum for communications with a transponder - active or passive as the case may be. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 4:48 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar I read in !emc-pstc that Woodcox, Edmund A edmund.a.wood...@lmco.com wrote (in 9efd49e2fb59d411aaba0008c7e675c0073a5...@emss04m10.ems.lmco.c om) about 'EEC compliance for a ground based radar', on Tue, 29 Jan 2002: I have a ground based radar that is somewhat largish and I need to obtain CE compliance for this product. I've reviewed the journal and am wondering if a product like this is considered ISM or would the generic limits apply? Anybody out there have any experience with this? It's an 'intentional radiator' and therefore ISM. EN55011 applies. ETSI standards may also apply. To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EEC compliance for a ground based radar From: Woodcox, Edmund A edmund.a.wood...@lmco.com Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:44:28 -0500 Hi Group, I have a ground based radar that is somewhat largish and I need to obtain CE compliance for this product. I've reviewed the journal and am wondering if a product like this is considered ISM or would the generic limits apply? Anybody out there have any experience with this? Edmund A Woodcox Specialty Engineering Electromagnetic Environmental Effects = LOCKHEED MARTIN Naval Electronics Surveillance Systems-Syracuse PO Box 4840 EP5-D5MD45 Syracuse, NY 13221-4840 === Phone: 315-456-2650 Fax: 315-456-0509 Email: edmund.a.wood...@lmco.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher
Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar
I read in !emc-pstc that Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net wrote (in mocj5uo379v30pma228s0e4qu8rl6v3...@4ax.com) about 'EEC compliance for a ground based radar', on Thu, 31 Jan 2002: The original poster seems to have a position with a military contractor. Does CISPR 11 and/or the RTTE directive apply to military equipment? No. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar
Does operating frequency affect the issue? If the radar system is in an official ISM frequency band, use CISPR 11, but if operating outside the those bands treat is as an RTTE device? Also, what about the market served? The original poster seems to have a position with a military contractor. Does CISPR 11 and/or the RTTE directive apply to military equipment? On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:07:02 -0500, richwo...@tycoint.com wrote: Hold on a second. Why is it considered ISM and not RTTE? Seems to me that it is subject to the RTTE Directive in that it uses the spectrum for communications with a transponder - active or passive as the case may be. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 4:48 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar I read in !emc-pstc that Woodcox, Edmund A edmund.a.wood...@lmco.com wrote (in 9efd49e2fb59d411aaba0008c7e675c0073a5...@emss04m10.ems.lmco.c om) about 'EEC compliance for a ground based radar', on Tue, 29 Jan 2002: I have a ground based radar that is somewhat largish and I need to obtain CE compliance for this product. I've reviewed the journal and am wondering if a product like this is considered ISM or would the generic limits apply? Anybody out there have any experience with this? It's an 'intentional radiator' and therefore ISM. EN55011 applies. ETSI standards may also apply. To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EEC compliance for a ground based radar From: Woodcox, Edmund A edmund.a.wood...@lmco.com Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:44:28 -0500 Hi Group, I have a ground based radar that is somewhat largish and I need to obtain CE compliance for this product. I've reviewed the journal and am wondering if a product like this is considered ISM or would the generic limits apply? Anybody out there have any experience with this? Edmund A Woodcox Specialty Engineering Electromagnetic Environmental Effects = LOCKHEED MARTIN Naval Electronics Surveillance Systems-Syracuse PO Box 4840 EP5-D5MD45 Syracuse, NY 13221-4840 === Phone: 315-456-2650 Fax: 315-456-0509 Email: edmund.a.wood...@lmco.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar
Hi all, AFAIK, radar (in the UK) are certified by CAA or by DERA Portsmouth. (DERA was what they used to be called - but I don't know what they are called now - unless its QinetiQ) CAA do air traffic radar etc. while DERA did marine radar. MoD radar came under MoD rules and were probably checked out by DERA anyway. Again AFAIK, radar are covered by RTTE but it only makes radar manufacturers dowhat they would have done under the old regime in the UK. Does this help? I think I am correct but reserve the right to be wrong. Regards Tim --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EEC compliance for a ground based radar
Tell me about the lack of logic. An anti-theft systems pings a tag, but does not communicate information. However most, but not all, countries consider it to be a transmitter subject to the radio communications regulations. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:14 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A01F13D0F@flbocexu05) about 'EEC compliance for a ground based radar', on Wed, 30 Jan 2002: Hold on a second. Why is it considered ISM and not RTTE? Seems to me that it is subject to the RTTE Directive in that it uses the spectrum for communications with a transponder - active or passive as the case may be. It doesn't *communicate intelligence* to the transponder. However, there is a certain lack of logic on these things. Surely someone knows whether RTTED applies to radars? It can't be a new question. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar
I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A01F13D0F@flbocexu05) about 'EEC compliance for a ground based radar', on Wed, 30 Jan 2002: Hold on a second. Why is it considered ISM and not RTTE? Seems to me that it is subject to the RTTE Directive in that it uses the spectrum for communications with a transponder - active or passive as the case may be. It doesn't *communicate intelligence* to the transponder. However, there is a certain lack of logic on these things. Surely someone knows whether RTTED applies to radars? It can't be a new question. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EEC compliance for a ground based radar
Rich: I imagine that a good lawyer could argue that the radar is ISM, as it uses the emitted energy to profile the properties of a material, to wit, the Earth's atmosphere and those random discontinuities (like ships) that are distributed throughout the material. Although a valid point of view, I think I would still call a search radar RTTE rather than ISM. But now, imagine an atmosphere profiler. It's not looking for objects, it's looking at variations of the material. That's getting pretty close to ISM. Regards, Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis -Original Message- From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:07 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EEC compliance for a ground based radar Hold on a second. Why is it considered ISM and not RTTE? Seems to me that it is subject to the RTTE Directive in that it uses the spectrum for communications with a transponder - active or passive as the case may be. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 4:48 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar I read in !emc-pstc that Woodcox, Edmund A edmund.a.wood...@lmco.com wrote (in 9efd49e2fb59d411aaba0008c7e675c0073a5...@emss04m10.ems.lmco.c om) about 'EEC compliance for a ground based radar', on Tue, 29 Jan 2002: I have a ground based radar that is somewhat largish and I need to obtain CE compliance for this product. I've reviewed the journal and am wondering if a product like this is considered ISM or would the generic limits apply? Anybody out there have any experience with this? It's an 'intentional radiator' and therefore ISM. EN55011 applies. ETSI standards may also apply. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EEC compliance for a ground based radar
Hold on a second. Why is it considered ISM and not RTTE? Seems to me that it is subject to the RTTE Directive in that it uses the spectrum for communications with a transponder - active or passive as the case may be. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 4:48 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar I read in !emc-pstc that Woodcox, Edmund A edmund.a.wood...@lmco.com wrote (in 9efd49e2fb59d411aaba0008c7e675c0073a5...@emss04m10.ems.lmco.c om) about 'EEC compliance for a ground based radar', on Tue, 29 Jan 2002: I have a ground based radar that is somewhat largish and I need to obtain CE compliance for this product. I've reviewed the journal and am wondering if a product like this is considered ISM or would the generic limits apply? Anybody out there have any experience with this? It's an 'intentional radiator' and therefore ISM. EN55011 applies. ETSI standards may also apply. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EEC compliance for a ground based radar
I read in !emc-pstc that Woodcox, Edmund A edmund.a.wood...@lmco.com wrote (in 9efd49e2fb59d411aaba0008c7e675c0073a5...@emss04m10.ems.lmco.c om) about 'EEC compliance for a ground based radar', on Tue, 29 Jan 2002: I have a ground based radar that is somewhat largish and I need to obtain CE compliance for this product. I've reviewed the journal and am wondering if a product like this is considered ISM or would the generic limits apply? Anybody out there have any experience with this? It's an 'intentional radiator' and therefore ISM. EN55011 applies. ETSI standards may also apply. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
