RE: EN60529-ACCEPTANCE CRITERIA Clause 14.3
Hello Constantin, CTL Decision Sheets: http://www.iecee.org/ctl/decisions.htm I do not know off hand if this is addressed in CTL or OSM decisions. The answer to your question specific to 60950 equipment might be contained in 60950-22 Information technology equipment - Safety - Part 22: Equipment to be installed outdoors cl. 9 Cheers, Kaz Gawrzyjal Dell Inc. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Bolintineanu, Constantin Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 2:19 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: EN60529-ACCEPTANCE CRITERIA Clause 14.3 Dear Colleagues, It came to my attention the text of the subject Clause. 1. It is the responsibility of the relevant technical committee to specify the amount of water which may be allowed to enter the enclosure and the details of a dielectric strength test, if any QUESTION: is anybody aware about any such specifications made by a TC in charge with the EN (IEC)60950 Standard? 2. Within the next paragraph is specified: In general, if any water..., it shall not: Be sufficient to interfere with the correctOR impair safety, followed by: Deposit on insulation parts where it COULD lead to tracking along the creepage distance... QUESTIONS: 2.1. Do you think that tracking along the creepage distance may impair safety OR may disturb the correct operation? and 2.2. Does the word COULD offers an open door for INTERPRETATION of the test result ?, OR there is a clear way to consider a decision ? (in my opinion, the second paragraph is redundant, and gives the degree of freedom for an arbitrary interpretation, and that line shall be removed). 3. Does anyone knows the TC in charge with this document where I may ask for an opinion regarding Question 2.1 ? 4. Are there any CTL decisions regarding this Clause, and if the answer is yes, where those may be accessed? (I was not able to find the former link related to the CTL decisions). Please accept in advance my many thanks for your assistance regarding this subject and have a very good week! Respectfully yours, Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. Digital Security Controls (DSC) a Division of Tyco Safety Products Canada 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Tel: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 Before printing this e-mail think if it is necessary DISCLAIMER: This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return the message and its attachments to the sender, and then please delete from your system without copying or forwarding it or call TSPC at 905 760 3000 extension 2568 so that the sender's address records can be corrected. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EN60529
I read in !emc-pstc that John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk wrote (in
R6gx4$aiyin8e...@jmwa.demon.co.uk) about 'EN60529', on Thu, 3 Jan
2002:
I read in !emc-pstc that Crabb, John jo...@exchange.scotland.ncr.com
wrote (in B6CD5947CF30D411A1350050DA4B75FF03C23387@sgbdun200.scotland.n
cr.com) about 'EN60529', on Thu, 3 Jan 2002:
John, I have forwarded this information to the chairman of
BSI committee EPL/74 (which deals with EN60950), with the
suggestion that CENELEC be asked to get EN60529 removed
from the list of LVD notified standards. We'll see what
happens.
Good. I will do the same in EPL/92. A double-whammy, indeed.
On the same subject, TC74 is working on requirements for
outdoor IT equipment, (in which I am involved). I believe
that while IEC 60529 may well be used to prove that a
sealed box is watertight, a prolonged rain test, such
as the UL one hour rain test, is more relevant to real IT
equipment (such as my ATMs) which interact with the public,
and which will have openings which have to be designed to
eliminate ingress of water, or which have water management
systems to divert water away from areas where a hazard could
otherwise be introduced.
EN60529 is very old; you should propose a full revision of the IEC
standard, to align more closely with the UL!
NEW TEXT:
I have done some more searching through reference documents and now
think that there is a confusion of terminology.
QUOTES
IEC Guide 104:
2.1 basic safety publication
Publication on a specific safety-related matter, applicable to many
electrotechnical products.
CENELEC Guide 25:
2.1. Basic [EMC] standards
Two types of basic [EMC] standards have been identified:
- those for tests and measurements
- those related to other aspects.
Basic standards for test and measurement are of particular importance in
connection with generic and product standards for conformity assessment
purposes.
a) Basic standards for emission and immunity tests and measurements
Contents
These standards give (often separately for each disturbing phenomenon) a
definition and description of the phenomenon, detailed test and
measurement methods, test instrumentation and basic test set up.
Ranges of test levels (immunity) may be given with respect to the
characteristics of measuring equipment or measuring methods.
These standards shall not include prescribed limits and shall not
contain performance criteria (not even general-purpose performance
criteria).
Aims and use
These standards constitute the foundation of EMC-standardisation by
defining the detailed test and measurement methods.
It is intended that generic and product (-family) standards should make
reference to the basic standards without repeating their detailed
contents. As such, a declaration of conformity of products with the
basic standards has no significance and therefore ***basic standards
will not be included in the list of harmonised standards published in
the Official Journal of the European Communities (OJEC)***. This OJEC
list will indeed include only those standards permitting the direct
presumption of conformity of products with the Directive, using article
10.1 [of the EMC Directive].
[rest snipped]
UNQUOTES
This confusion of terminology is but one aspect of a larger problem -
that there are unnecessary and confusing differences of terminology,
procedures and guidance within both IEC and CENELEC but particularly in
CENELEC, between electrical safety documents and EMC documents. While
the two subjects have important differences, they also have similarities
which should be recognized, and unnecessary differences (of all kinds)
should be eliminated.
In the particular case of IEC/EN60529, it includes not only a
classification scheme but also detailed test methods **and conformity
with it can be demonstrated**. It is a Basic Safety Publication, but it
is NOT a Basic Standard.
However, the original problem arose because a test-house required
EN60529 to be cited in a Declaration of Conformity for a product to
which IEC/EN60950 applied. It seems clear that, even though a reading of
clause 27 of the Guidelines on the application of the LVD (February
2001) might suggest that this citation (of 'harmonized standards' -
plural) is indeed required, the same would apply to a large number of
the other standards to which IEC/EN60950 makes reference, and this seems
impracticable and unnecessary.
I therefore suggest that this point ('Does the DOC have to cite some or
all of the standards that are referred to in the applicable product
safety standard, as well as that standard itself?') needs clarification
in the 'Guidelines'. I am also posting a similar message to the
secretary of the BSI committee responsible for UK input to IEC/EN60529,
and to the secretary of BSI EPL/92.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero.
Re: EN60529
I read in !emc-pstc that Crabb, John jo...@exchange.scotland.ncr.com wrote (in B6CD5947CF30D411A1350050DA4B75FF03C23387@sgbdun200.scotland.n cr.com) about 'EN60529', on Thu, 3 Jan 2002: John, I have forwarded this information to the chairman of BSI committee EPL/74 (which deals with EN60950), with the suggestion that CENELEC be asked to get EN60529 removed from the list of LVD notified standards. We'll see what happens. Good. I will do the same in EPL/92. A double-whammy, indeed. On the same subject, TC74 is working on requirements for outdoor IT equipment, (in which I am involved). I believe that while IEC 60529 may well be used to prove that a sealed box is watertight, a prolonged rain test, such as the UL one hour rain test, is more relevant to real IT equipment (such as my ATMs) which interact with the public, and which will have openings which have to be designed to eliminate ingress of water, or which have water management systems to divert water away from areas where a hazard could otherwise be introduced. EN60529 is very old; you should propose a full revision of the IEC standard, to align more closely with the UL! -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EN60529
John, I have forwarded this information to the chairman of BSI committee EPL/74 (which deals with EN60950), with the suggestion that CENELEC be asked to get EN60529 removed from the list of LVD notified standards. We'll see what happens. On the same subject, TC74 is working on requirements for outdoor IT equipment, (in which I am involved). I believe that while IEC 60529 may well be used to prove that a sealed box is watertight, a prolonged rain test, such as the UL one hour rain test, is more relevant to real IT equipment (such as my ATMs) which interact with the public, and which will have openings which have to be designed to eliminate ingress of water, or which have water management systems to divert water away from areas where a hazard could otherwise be introduced. Regards, John Crabb, Development Excellence (Product Safety) , NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., Kingsway West, Dundee, Scotland. DD2 3XX E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289 (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243. VoicePlus 6-341-2289. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: 02 January 2002 21:30 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EN60529 I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6ABC4FD0@flbocexu05) about 'EN60529', on Wed, 2 Jan 2002: It is referenced in the OJ under the LVD, yet a reading of the standard indicates that it is a basic standard intended to be referenced in product standards. It appears to be a mistake, because, as you say, it is a Basic Standard. Astonishing as it must seem to mere mortals, the CENELEC Technical Board is not utterly infallible. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EN60529
I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6ABC4FD0@flbocexu05) about 'EN60529', on Wed, 2 Jan 2002: It is referenced in the OJ under the LVD, yet a reading of the standard indicates that it is a basic standard intended to be referenced in product standards. It appears to be a mistake, because, as you say, it is a Basic Standard. Astonishing as it must seem to mere mortals, the CENELEC Technical Board is not utterly infallible. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
