RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States
So bottom line is, an NRTL Certification is NOT required, but is one method to satisfy OSHA. For any high volume produced product, certification is really the only reasonable option. No actually in some states and cities an NRTL mark is absolutely legally required per State or City statutes.. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States We get into this discussion about once every year or two so I'm curious whether things have changed or not? This is the way it used to be. Let me know if it is no longer true.. People make statements such as NRTL is Required for Workplace Safety, but technically ACCEPTABLE BY OSHA is what is required. NRTL certification is not the only method that satisfies OSHA. According to the Federal Register 29 section 1910-399, there are three ways to be acceptable by OSHA; -clip- 1) If it is accepted, or certified, or listed, or labeled, or otherwise determined to be safe by a nationally recognized testing laboratory [NRTL] recognized pursuant to § 1910.7; (2) With respect to an installation or equipment of a kind that no nationally recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines to be safe, if it is inspected or tested by another Federal agency, or by a State, municipal, or other local authority responsible for enforcing occupational safety provisions of the National Electrical Code, and found in compliance with the provisions of the National Electrical Code as applied in this subpart; (3) With respect to custom-made equipment or related installations that are designed, fabricated for, and intended for use by a particular customer, if it is determined to be safe for its intended use by its manufacturer on the basis of test data which the employer keeps and makes available for inspection to the Assistant Secretary [OSHA] and his authorized representatives [OSHA Inspector]. --unclip-- Method #1 above lists certified as only one of many options. Many have interpreted #2 above to mean that you can get the product Field Tested at the customer location by a local inspector or authority. Many of our customers have their own electrical inspectors or hire a local inspector. OSHA generally accepts their report. For some very low quantity built equipment which can be considered custom-made, OSHA may accept a detailed test report from the Manufacturer. In the (low quantity custom-made) Laboratory Equipment category, for example, NRTL certification is fairly rare. In my experience, 99% of customers in North America accept products without any markings (CE Marking only) or hire their own local electrical inspector to look it over prior to putting the equipment into service. Less than 1% requires a field inspection from an NRTL and generally it is because of their own internal requirements. A full NRTL Certification is never the only option. So bottom line is, an NRTL Certification is NOT required, but is one method to satisfy OSHA. For any high volume produced product, certification is really the only reasonable option. This is my current understanding. Is this all still true or has things once again changed? The Other Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of jack_bu...@dell.com Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States I was recently at a fire scene where the home owner had extended some outlets around a room. The wire he chose to use inside the walls did not have a NRTL approval. Apparently he bought it at a big box store that happened to be orange. Jack Burns -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of rn...@san.rr.com Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:22 PM To: 'Jim Robson'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States Hi Jim: You've had a number of answers with good data. NRTL certification is required for two totally unrelated applications. 1) NRTL is required for workplace safety. 2) NRTL or equivalent is required as a part of the local (city, county, state) building code safety. Certification by a NRTL is required under the USA workplace safety law, aka OSHA. If you sell your product to an employer (who is responsible for workplace safety), the electrical equipment used by his employees must bear the mark of an NRTL. (NRTL is the means for electrical equipment safety administration under OSHA.) Certification by a NRTL or equivalent is required by the USA National Electrical Code. This code (or a version of it) is adopted by local (state or county or city) jurisdictions responsible for building codes. Most codes require certification of electrical equipment
RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States
We get into this discussion about once every year or two so I'm curious whether things have changed or not? This is the way it used to be. Let me know if it is no longer true.. People make statements such as NRTL is Required for Workplace Safety, but technically ACCEPTABLE BY OSHA is what is required. NRTL certification is not the only method that satisfies OSHA. According to the Federal Register 29 section 1910-399, there are three ways to be acceptable by OSHA; -clip- 1) If it is accepted, or certified, or listed, or labeled, or otherwise determined to be safe by a nationally recognized testing laboratory [NRTL] recognized pursuant to § 1910.7; (2) With respect to an installation or equipment of a kind that no nationally recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines to be safe, if it is inspected or tested by another Federal agency, or by a State, municipal, or other local authority responsible for enforcing occupational safety provisions of the National Electrical Code, and found in compliance with the provisions of the National Electrical Code as applied in this subpart; (3) With respect to custom-made equipment or related installations that are designed, fabricated for, and intended for use by a particular customer, if it is determined to be safe for its intended use by its manufacturer on the basis of test data which the employer keeps and makes available for inspection to the Assistant Secretary [OSHA] and his authorized representatives [OSHA Inspector]. --unclip-- Method #1 above lists certified as only one of many options. Many have interpreted #2 above to mean that you can get the product Field Tested at the customer location by a local inspector or authority. Many of our customers have their own electrical inspectors or hire a local inspector. OSHA generally accepts their report. For some very low quantity built equipment which can be considered custom-made, OSHA may accept a detailed test report from the Manufacturer. In the (low quantity custom-made) Laboratory Equipment category, for example, NRTL certification is fairly rare. In my experience, 99% of customers in North America accept products without any markings (CE Marking only) or hire their own local electrical inspector to look it over prior to putting the equipment into service. Less than 1% requires a field inspection from an NRTL and generally it is because of their own internal requirements. A full NRTL Certification is never the only option. So bottom line is, an NRTL Certification is NOT required, but is one method to satisfy OSHA. For any high volume produced product, certification is really the only reasonable option. This is my current understanding. Is this all still true or has things once again changed? The Other Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of jack_bu...@dell.com Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States I was recently at a fire scene where the home owner had extended some outlets around a room. The wire he chose to use inside the walls did not have a NRTL approval. Apparently he bought it at a big box store that happened to be orange. Jack Burns -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of rn...@san.rr.com Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:22 PM To: 'Jim Robson'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States Hi Jim: You've had a number of answers with good data. NRTL certification is required for two totally unrelated applications. 1) NRTL is required for workplace safety. 2) NRTL or equivalent is required as a part of the local (city, county, state) building code safety. Certification by a NRTL is required under the USA workplace safety law, aka OSHA. If you sell your product to an employer (who is responsible for workplace safety), the electrical equipment used by his employees must bear the mark of an NRTL. (NRTL is the means for electrical equipment safety administration under OSHA.) Certification by a NRTL or equivalent is required by the USA National Electrical Code. This code (or a version of it) is adopted by local (state or county or city) jurisdictions responsible for building codes. Most codes require certification of electrical equipment. Most codes require certification by an NRTL, but some codes have a specific list of acceptable certification houses. As far as I know, all NRTLs are accepted by all building codes; some codes may specify the cert house, and some codes may include cert houses that are not NRTL. For an example of a local jurisdiction that specifies cert houses, see: http://ladbs.org/LADBSWeb/LADBS_Forms/TestLab/ETL_list_lab.pdf (The City of Los Angeles has its own electrical testing laboratory and safety certification label.) As a general rule
RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States
In a few rare cases, NRTL Listing may not be enough. The New York City Department of Buildings has their own approval system for equipment, formerly known as the Material and Equipment Approval (MEA). An MEA was generally only required for materials or equipment permanently affixed to the building structure, but it could come into play for electrical equipment that requires conduit for its power connection. The MEA has been replace by a system under the New York City Office of Technical Certification and Research, but I am not familiar if OTCR procedures. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/reference/mea_resource.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/nysa_presentation_092508.pdf Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Richard Nute [mailto:rn...@san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 3:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States Hi Gary: Somebody long ago posted a list of states which had certification/Listing requirements but sadly I've lost the list and its been too long ago to even try and remember the author. It included Washington, Oregon, California and others, but not all. I just forget who they are. Certification requirements are specified in the local electrical code. The electrical code is part of the building code, and usually (but not always) is comprised of the National Electrical Code. Depending on the state, the building code (which includes the electric code) is either a state code, or a county code, or a city code. Oregon and Washington have state codes. California does not. In California, the code is either a county code or a city code. Los Angeles and Chicago are examples of city codes (which were locally written as opposed to adopting the National Electrical Code). Best regards, Richard Nute Product Safety Consultant San Diego, California, USA - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States
I was recently at a fire scene where the home owner had extended some outlets around a room. The wire he chose to use inside the walls did not have a NRTL approval. Apparently he bought it at a big box store that happened to be orange. Jack Burns -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of rn...@san.rr.com Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:22 PM To: 'Jim Robson'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States Hi Jim: You've had a number of answers with good data. NRTL certification is required for two totally unrelated applications. 1) NRTL is required for workplace safety. 2) NRTL or equivalent is required as a part of the local (city, county, state) building code safety. Certification by a NRTL is required under the USA workplace safety law, aka OSHA. If you sell your product to an employer (who is responsible for workplace safety), the electrical equipment used by his employees must bear the mark of an NRTL. (NRTL is the means for electrical equipment safety administration under OSHA.) Certification by a NRTL or equivalent is required by the USA National Electrical Code. This code (or a version of it) is adopted by local (state or county or city) jurisdictions responsible for building codes. Most codes require certification of electrical equipment. Most codes require certification by an NRTL, but some codes have a specific list of acceptable certification houses. As far as I know, all NRTLs are accepted by all building codes; some codes may specify the cert house, and some codes may include cert houses that are not NRTL. For an example of a local jurisdiction that specifies cert houses, see: http://ladbs.org/LADBSWeb/LADBS_Forms/TestLab/ETL_list_lab.pdf (The City of Los Angeles has its own electrical testing laboratory and safety certification label.) As a general rule for the USA all electrical products must be certified by an NRTL. (Some retailers, such as Wal-Mart, also require safety certification of the products they sell, and often have their own list of acceptable cert houses. NRTL works for them, too.) Here is the current list of NRTLs: http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html Best regards, Richard Nute Product Safety Consultant San Diego, California, USA -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Robson Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States Group, I am in a discussion with one of our customers about NRTL listing for ITE products sold in the US. He sent me this comment. All equipment sold in the State of Alaska as well as at least 20 other states is required to be listed by a nationally recognized testing lab. Is anyone familiar with this requirement, know where to find the more details and where I can find a list of the states that do require a NRTL listing? Google didn't help on this one. Regards, Jim Robson - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States
Hi Jim: You've had a number of answers with good data. NRTL certification is required for two totally unrelated applications. 1) NRTL is required for workplace safety. 2) NRTL or equivalent is required as a part of the local (city, county, state) building code safety. Certification by a NRTL is required under the USA workplace safety law, aka OSHA. If you sell your product to an employer (who is responsible for workplace safety), the electrical equipment used by his employees must bear the mark of an NRTL. (NRTL is the means for electrical equipment safety administration under OSHA.) Certification by a NRTL or equivalent is required by the USA National Electrical Code. This code (or a version of it) is adopted by local (state or county or city) jurisdictions responsible for building codes. Most codes require certification of electrical equipment. Most codes require certification by an NRTL, but some codes have a specific list of acceptable certification houses. As far as I know, all NRTLs are accepted by all building codes; some codes may specify the cert house, and some codes may include cert houses that are not NRTL. For an example of a local jurisdiction that specifies cert houses, see: http://ladbs.org/LADBSWeb/LADBS_Forms/TestLab/ETL_list_lab.pdf (The City of Los Angeles has its own electrical testing laboratory and safety certification label.) As a general rule for the USA all electrical products must be certified by an NRTL. (Some retailers, such as Wal-Mart, also require safety certification of the products they sell, and often have their own list of acceptable cert houses. NRTL works for them, too.) Here is the current list of NRTLs: http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html Best regards, Richard Nute Product Safety Consultant San Diego, California, USA -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Robson Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States Group, I am in a discussion with one of our customers about NRTL listing for ITE products sold in the US. He sent me this comment. All equipment sold in the State of Alaska as well as at least 20 other states is required to be listed by a nationally recognized testing lab. Is anyone familiar with this requirement, know where to find the more details and where I can find a list of the states that do require a NRTL listing? Google didn't help on this one. Regards, Jim Robson - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States
0. Alaska Dept of Labor AKOSH Program Directive 00-05 1. OSHA Directive No CPL 1-0.3 2. In general, if the AHJ has adopted a recent version of the NEC, then compliance with 29CFR1910 will be required. 3. The Three Stooges Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Jim Robson Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States Group, I am in a discussion with one of our customers about NRTL listing for ITE products sold in the US. He sent me this comment. All equipment sold in the State of Alaska as well as at least 20 other states is required to be listed by a nationally recognized testing lab. Is anyone familiar with this requirement, know where to find the more details and where I can find a list of the states that do require a NRTL listing? Google didn't help on this one. Regards, Jim Robson - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States
Jim: For overview see this Technical Bulletin: http://us.sanyo.com/Dynamic/customPages docs/biomedical_TechnicalBulletinFAQ.pdf Samuel Lifshutz Compliance Manager Optical Communications Systems Division MRV Communications 20520 Nordhoff St., Chatsworth , CA 91311 T: 818-772-6235 x265 E: slifsh...@mrv.com W: www.mrv.com This email is intended for the intended recipients(s) and may contain confidential information. Reproduction, dissemination or distribution of this message is prohibited unless authorised by the sender. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and you must not read, keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this email without the sender's prior permission. The views expressed by the sender are not necessarily those of MRV Communications -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Robson Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States Group, I am in a discussion with one of our customers about NRTL listing for ITE products sold in the US. He sent me this comment. All equipment sold in the State of Alaska as well as at least 20 other states is required to be listed by a nationally recognized testing lab. Is anyone familiar with this requirement, know where to find the more details and where I can find a list of the states that do require a NRTL listing? Google didn't help on this one. Regards, Jim Robson -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 9:37 PM To: Huang, Tim; Scott Xe; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Transmitter receiver for audio and video transmission in UK EU The 800 MHz A/V band is being re-allocated for wireless internet handsets (LTE: 790-862 MHz band). Ref World Radiocommunications Conference 2007 (WRC 07) Just for the record... Gert Gremmen ce-test qualified tesging bv -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Huang, Tim Verzonden: maandag 31 januari 2011 4:36 Aan: Scott Xe; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: RE: Transmitter receiver for audio and video transmission in UK EU Hi Scott, Even though a license is not required for UK and EU, the product should be subject to RF testing according to following ESTI standards: For FHSS, the applicable standards are EN300 328 EN301 489-1EN301 489-17; For DSSS, the applicable standards are EN300 440 EN301 489-1EN301 489-3; Regards Tim -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 11:31 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Transmitter receiver for audio and video transmission in UK EU As far as I know 863-865 MHz and 2.4 GHz are allowed for audio and video transmitter receiver in the UK and EU without a license. Can someone advise what sort of standard for such devices, ie., wireless headphones, wireless speaker systems, AV senders, etc. In addition, 5.8 GHz is becoming popular. Are UK and EU allowed for this frequency? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion
RE: NRTL listing for product sold in the United States
Jim, NRTLs and the NRTL program is governed by OSHA. Here are the links you need - http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/ http://63.234.227.130/pls/oshaweb/owadi p.show_document?p_table=standardsp_id=9976 - Following is the text from this link: Acceptable. An installation or equipment is acceptable to the Assistant Secretary of Labor, and approved within the meaning of this Subpart S: (1) If it is accepted, or certified, or listed, or labeled, or otherwise determined to be safe by a nationally recognized testing laboratory recognized pursuant to § 1910.7; or (2) With respect to an installation or equipment of a kind that no nationally recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines to be safe, if it is inspected or tested by another Federal agency, or by a State, municipal, or other local authority responsible for enforcing occupational safety provisions of the National Electrical Code, and found in compliance with the provisions of the National Electrical Code as applied in this subpart; or (3) With respect to custom-made equipment or related installations that are designed, fabricated for, and intended for use by a particular customer, if it is determined to be safe for its intended use by its manufacturer on the basis of test data which the employer keeps and makes available for inspection to the Assistant Secretary and his authorized representatives. Accepted. An installation is accepted if it has been inspected and found by a nationally recognized testing laboratory to conform to specified plans or to procedures of applicable codes. John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. 605 Country Club Drive, Suites IJ Bensenville, IL 60106 P - 630 238-0188 / F - 630 238-0269 1-877-804-3066 jral...@productsafetyinc.com http://www.productsafetyinc.com Although PSC maintains the highest level of virus protection, this e-mail and any attachments should be scanned by your virus protection software. It is the responsibility of the recipient to check that it is virus free. PSC does not accept any responsibility for data loss or systems damage arising in any way from its use. This message is confidential and intended only for the individual to whom or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or addressee, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying, in whole or part, of this message is strictly prohibited. If you believe that you have been sent this message in error, please do not read it. Please immediately reply to sender that you have received this message in error. Then permanently delete all copies of the message. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Jim Robson [mailto:jrob...@zetron.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 3:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] NRTL listing for product sold in the United States Group, I am in a discussion with one of our customers about NRTL listing for ITE products sold in the US. He sent me this comment. All equipment sold in the State of Alaska as well as at least 20 other states is required to be listed by a nationally recognized testing lab. Is anyone familiar with this requirement, know where to find the more details and where I can find a list of the states that do require a NRTL listing? Google didn't help on this one. Regards, Jim Robson -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 9:37 PM To: Huang, Tim; Scott Xe; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Transmitter receiver for audio and video transmission in UK EU The 800 MHz A/V band is being re-allocated for wireless internet handsets (LTE: 790-862 MHz band). Ref World Radiocommunications Conference 2007 (WRC 07) Just for the record... Gert Gremmen ce-test qualified tesging bv -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Huang, Tim Verzonden: maandag 31 januari 2011 4:36 Aan: Scott Xe; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: RE: Transmitter receiver for audio and video transmission in UK EU Hi Scott, Even though a license is not required for UK and EU, the product should be subject to RF testing according to following ESTI standards: For FHSS, the applicable standards are EN300 328 EN301 489-1EN301 489-17; For DSSS, the applicable standards are EN300 440 EN301 489-1EN301 489-3; Regards Tim -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 11:31 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Transmitter receiver for audio and video transmission in UK EU As far as I know 863-865 MHz and 2.4 GHz are allowed for audio and video transmitter receiver in the UK and EU without a license. Can someone advise what sort of standard for such devices, ie.,
Re: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products
Christine, I recommend you read the following from NIST which explains the US certification system. http://ts.nist.gov/Standards/Conformity/govcer.cfm Please note that OSHA regulates the worplace only. However, some home products such as household coffee makers, end up in the workplace also and therefore require the NRTL Listing Many retailers will not place products on their shelves without an NRTL Listing Mark due to product liability laws. Your product, once opened and modified, is no longer safe (spacings to hazardous live parts may have been reduced, fire enclosure requirements may no longer be met, earth bonding may have changed, etc.) Best Regards, Peter Merguerian Christine Rodham chrisrod...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi List Members, While I know not all products require a NRTL ( UL, MET, TUV, etc ) mark, I understood that products used for home use ( 120V) in the USA required a NRTL listing. Is this correct? Isn't this an OSHA requirement? We are looking at buying a product that would be used in the home from a supplier. The supplier gets the product from an OEM, modifies the chassis / enclosure, and then sells it to us. Their modified chassis has no regulatory marks on it but they think...that since the OEM listed the product that they are ok marketing it...even though they made changes. ( No electrical changes ) We are not buying it to this but need to specifically know what is required by law Can anybody shed any light on this..particularly who is the legal authority in the USA? ( OSHA...right? ) Thank you! Christine Rodham _ Food fight? http://answers.yahoo.com/d r/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5Nj 0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdG nbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396545367 Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food http://ans ers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbG hMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMD Ec2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396545367 Drink QA. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks http://us. d.yahoo.com/evt=49979/*http://tv.yahoo.com/ on Yahoo! TV. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products
Hello Christine: For all practical purposes, ALL states require third-party safety certification by an NRTL or equivalent. But, the electrical codes are not necessarily enforced by a state agency. Electrical codes (and safety certification) can also be under the jurisdiction of a county or a city. For example, Washington and Oregon have state electrical code jurisdiction. California has city electrical code jurisdiction. Over the years, UL lobbied all of the various state and local electrical boards so that a mark was required, and that the UL mark was an acceptable mark. CSA has likewise applied to ALL jurisdictions for acceptance of their mark. So have a number of other certifiers. At one time, the US National Electrical Code required Listing (a UL term for certification) of products. Since then, the NEC refers to products being on a certifier's list. Best regards, Richard Nute San Diego - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products
Do you have a list or link of the states which require an NRTL Mark? Christine Rodham Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com wrote: More then a dozen States have legal requirements for a consumer product to have an NRTL Mark on the product to sell to the consumer. This is especially important if the product requires installation where a building inspector will be checking the installation.. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Christine Rodham Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 7:46 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products Hi List Members, While I know not all products require a NRTL ( UL, MET, TUV, etc ) mark, I understood that products used for home use ( 120V) in the USA required a NRTL listing. Is this correct? Isn't this an OSHA requirement? We are looking at buying a product that would be used in the home from a supplier. The supplier gets the product from an OEM, modifies the chassis / enclosure, and then sells it to us. Their modified chassis has no regulatory marks on it but they think...that since the OEM listed the product that they are ok marketing it...even though they made changes. ( No electrical changes ) We are not buying it to this but need to specifically know what is required by law Can anybody shed any light on this..particularly who is the legal authority in the USA? ( OSHA...right? ) Thank you! Christine Rodham _ Food fight? http://answers.yahoo.com/d r/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5Nj 0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdG nbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396545367 Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food http://ans ers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbG hMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMD Ec2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396545367 Drink QA. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting http://us.rd.yahoo. om/evt=48249/*http://search.yahoo.com/s arch?fr=oni_on_mailp=graduation+giftscs=bz gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products
Also, I believe some retailers require an NRTL mark on consumer electrical / electronics products that are sold in their stores, and some retailers have a preference as to the NRTL’s they will accept. Doug Massey _ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tyra, John Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:35 AM To: Christine Rodham; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products More then a dozen States have legal requirements for a consumer product to have an NRTL Mark on the product to sell to the consumer. This is especially important if the product requires installation where a building inspector will be checking the installation.. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Christine Rodham Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 7:46 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products Hi List Members, While I know not all products require a NRTL ( UL, MET, TUV, etc ) mark, I understood that products used for home use ( 120V) in the USA required a NRTL listing. Is this correct? Isn't this an OSHA requirement? We are looking at buying a product that would be used in the home from a supplier. The supplier gets the product from an OEM, modifies the chassis / enclosure, and then sells it to us. Their modified chassis has no regulatory marks on it but they think...that since the OEM listed the product that they are ok marketing it...even though they made changes. ( No electrical changes ) We are not buying it to this but need to specifically know what is required by law Can anybody shed any light on this..particularly who is the legal authority in the USA? ( OSHA...right? ) Thank you! Christine Rodham _ Food http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/inde ;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwO RfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZ RzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396545367 fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! http://answers.yahoo.com dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5 jU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxf GFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396545367 Answers Food Drink QA. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products
More then a dozen States have legal requirements for a consumer product to have an NRTL Mark on the product to sell to the consumer. This is especially important if the product requires installation where a building inspector will be checking the installation.. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Christine Rodham Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 7:46 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products Hi List Members, While I know not all products require a NRTL ( UL, MET, TUV, etc ) mark, I understood that products used for home use ( 120V) in the USA required a NRTL listing. Is this correct? Isn't this an OSHA requirement? We are looking at buying a product that would be used in the home from a supplier. The supplier gets the product from an OEM, modifies the chassis / enclosure, and then sells it to us. Their modified chassis has no regulatory marks on it but they think...that since the OEM listed the product that they are ok marketing it...even though they made changes. ( No electrical changes ) We are not buying it to this but need to specifically know what is required by law Can anybody shed any light on this..particularly who is the legal authority in the USA? ( OSHA...right? ) Thank you! Christine Rodham _ Food http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/ind x;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEw ARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGlu QRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396545367 fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! http://answers.yahoo.co /dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWx dGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396545367 Answers Food Drink QA. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products
I would also add that this looks like a text book example of a Multiple Listing. The OEM can add their customer's product to their Listing Report under the Multiple Listing category. The changes can be listed there (in most cases not safety-affecting and limited to re-branding only). In the event that there are changes that could affect Product safety, this could also be evaluated by the NRTL in question and documented accordingly. Based on the information below, it is not clear what modifications to the enclosure (branding only or mechanical/electrical in nature) are made. Thx, Joe From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 8:45 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products Ted gave a great summary. The only point I would add is the lawsuit liability issue. Without an NRTL, if your product hurts or kills someone, or burns down a building, a million dollar lawsuit can turn into a multi-million dollar lawsuit real quick; and in some cases there may even be jail time. So if you modify another company's product, I highly recommend taking Ted's advice and having it checked out by an NRTL. If the modification truly is minor, the NRTL may consider only the modification and not have to do a full blow evaluation which will save money and time. The Other Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ted.eck...@apcc.com Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 8:11 AM To: chrisrod...@yahoo.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products OSHA only governs safety in the work place and has no authority over residential installations. The requirements for consumer products come from the local electrical codes. The vast majority of electrical codes are based on NFPA 70, the National Electrical Code (NEC). Strictly speaking, the NEC does not require equipment to be Listed. However, equipment that is not listed is subject to review by the local inspector. The NEC states It is the intent of this Code that factory-installed internal wiring or the construction of equipment need not be inspected at the time of installation of the equipment, except to detect alterations or damage, if the equipment has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory Practically speaking, local inspectors don't want to review the construction of every device, so they insist on the use of only Listed products. Any modifications may be considered to violate the Listing of a product. Modifications to the enclosure would definitely violate the Listing. These modifications may not touch the electrical circuits, but there may still be changes affecting safety. The modified enclosure may no longer properly serve as a fire enclosure. It may not properly restrict accessibility to electrical, thermal or mechanical hazards. Spacings may be unacceptably reduced. Flammable materials may be introduced. In my opinion, the supplier needs to contract with an NRTL to get their modified product Listed. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC-MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC-MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Christine Rodham chrisrodham@yaho o.com To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 07/13/2007 06:45 NRTL Listing for Home Use Products AM Hi List Members, While I know not all products require a NRTL ( UL, MET, TUV, etc ) mark, I understood that products used for home use ( 120V) in the USA required a NRTL listing. Is this correct? Isn't this an OSHA requirement? We are looking at buying a product that would be used in the home from a supplier. The supplier gets the product from an OEM, modifies the chassis / enclosure, and then sells it to us. Their modified chassis has no regulatory marks on it but they think...that since the OEM listed the product that they are ok marketing it...even though they made changes. ( No electrical changes ) We are not buying it to this but need to specifically know what is required by law Can anybody shed any light on this..particularly who is the legal authority in the USA? ( OSHA...right? ) Thank you! Christine Rodham Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org
RE: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products
Ted gave a great summary. The only point I would add is the lawsuit liability issue. Without an NRTL, if your product hurts or kills someone, or burns down a building, a million dollar lawsuit can turn into a multi-million dollar lawsuit real quick; and in some cases there may even be jail time. So if you modify another company's product, I highly recommend taking Ted's advice and having it checked out by an NRTL. If the modification truly is minor, the NRTL may consider only the modification and not have to do a full blow evaluation which will save money and time. The Other Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ted.eck...@apcc.com Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 8:11 AM To: chrisrod...@yahoo.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products OSHA only governs safety in the work place and has no authority over residential installations. The requirements for consumer products come from the local electrical codes. The vast majority of electrical codes are based on NFPA 70, the National Electrical Code (NEC). Strictly speaking, the NEC does not require equipment to be Listed. However, equipment that is not listed is subject to review by the local inspector. The NEC states It is the intent of this Code that factory-installed internal wiring or the construction of equipment need not be inspected at the time of installation of the equipment, except to detect alterations or damage, if the equipment has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory Practically speaking, local inspectors don't want to review the construction of every device, so they insist on the use of only Listed products. Any modifications may be considered to violate the Listing of a product. Modifications to the enclosure would definitely violate the Listing. These modifications may not touch the electrical circuits, but there may still be changes affecting safety. The modified enclosure may no longer properly serve as a fire enclosure. It may not properly restrict accessibility to electrical, thermal or mechanical hazards. Spacings may be unacceptably reduced. Flammable materials may be introduced. In my opinion, the supplier needs to contract with an NRTL to get their modified product Listed. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC-MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC-MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Christine Rodham chrisrodham@yaho o.com To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 07/13/2007 06:45 NRTL Listing for Home Use Products AM Hi List Members, While I know not all products require a NRTL ( UL, MET, TUV, etc ) mark, I understood that products used for home use ( 120V) in the USA required a NRTL listing. Is this correct? Isn't this an OSHA requirement? We are looking at buying a product that would be used in the home from a supplier. The supplier gets the product from an OEM, modifies the chassis / enclosure, and then sells it to us. Their modified chassis has no regulatory marks on it but they think...that since the OEM listed the product that they are ok marketing it...even though they made changes. ( No electrical changes ) We are not buying it to this but need to specifically know what is required by law Can anybody shed any light on this..particularly who is the legal authority in the USA? ( OSHA...right? ) Thank you! Christine Rodham Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott
Re: NRTL Listing for Home Use Products
OSHA only governs safety in the work place and has no authority over residential installations. The requirements for consumer products come from the local electrical codes. The vast majority of electrical codes are based on NFPA 70, the National Electrical Code (NEC). Strictly speaking, the NEC does not require equipment to be Listed. However, equipment that is not listed is subject to review by the local inspector. The NEC states It is the intent of this Code that factory-installed internal wiring or the construction of equipment need not be inspected at the time of installation of the equipment, except to detect alterations or damage, if the equipment has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory Practically speaking, local inspectors don't want to review the construction of every device, so they insist on the use of only Listed products. Any modifications may be considered to violate the Listing of a product. Modifications to the enclosure would definitely violate the Listing. These modifications may not touch the electrical circuits, but there may still be changes affecting safety. The modified enclosure may no longer properly serve as a fire enclosure. It may not properly restrict accessibility to electrical, thermal or mechanical hazards. Spacings may be unacceptably reduced. Flammable materials may be introduced. In my opinion, the supplier needs to contract with an NRTL to get their modified product Listed. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC-MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC-MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Christine Rodham chrisrodham@yaho o.com To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 07/13/2007 06:45 NRTL Listing for Home Use Products AM Hi List Members, While I know not all products require a NRTL ( UL, MET, TUV, etc ) mark, I understood that products used for home use ( 120V) in the USA required a NRTL listing. Is this correct? Isn't this an OSHA requirement? We are looking at buying a product that would be used in the home from a supplier. The supplier gets the product from an OEM, modifies the chassis / enclosure, and then sells it to us. Their modified chassis has no regulatory marks on it but they think...that since the OEM listed the product that they are ok marketing it...even though they made changes. ( No electrical changes ) We are not buying it to this but need to specifically know what is required by law Can anybody shed any light on this..particularly who is the legal authority in the USA? ( OSHA...right? ) Thank you! Christine Rodham Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list
RE: NRTL Listing
On Saturday, June 26, 1999 4:30 AM, Finlayson, Joe [SMTP:jfinlay...@nbase-xyplex.com] wrote: Hello Group, I am in the midst of evaluating the compliance status of a particular product for a potential OEM relationship. This product is a standalone box with Ethernet ports powered by an external AC adapter with an output of 7VDC. The adapter is NRTL Listed, IEC 950 CB report, etc. although the box itself has no safety certs whatsoever. My understanding is that there is no legal requirement to have an NRTL Listing, etc. for such a product although my policy has been to get that third party mark to minimize liability and such. Can anyone share some more info as to their reasons for listing or not listing such a product which is well below hazardous limits. Joe, Although devices like these usually seem innocent enoughyou should think about it. For example, under fault conditions, how much current could be supplied by the supplied by the AC adapter. No fire hazard? Burn hazard? Does the box have sharp corners?Contain batteries? If you do rely on an NRTL to set your mind at ease, make sure you get the box approved for use with the specific AC adapter(s) you have in mind. Horror stories are definitely welcome as I would like ammunition to justify my case to force the issue. Horror story? No problem. Ask Kodak. or go to http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml99/99059.html to see this one: CPSC, Kodak Announce Recall of AC Adapters for Digital Cameras WASHINGTON, D.C. In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), Eastman Kodak Company, of Rochester, N.Y., is voluntarily recalling 120,000 AC adapters for use with certain Kodak digital cameras. When the connector plug of the AC adapter is not fully inserted in the camera, the batteries in the camera can overheat to a high temperature. This can cause the batteries to leak acid and explode, possibly causing thermal and chemical burns or lacerations to consumers. Kodak is aware of three reports of the batteries in these cameras overheating and rapidly discharging the battery's contents while using these recalled adapters, including one report of a consumer suffering minor injuries when a battery's content ejected from the camera onto his face and hand. It's clear from the photos that the AC Adapters were approved. I wonder if the Cameras themselves were NRTL tested? Does anyone else know? Matt Thx, Joe * Joe Finlayson Compliance Engineering Manager NBase-Xyplex 295 Foster Street Littleton, MA 01460 Tel: +1 (978) 952-5887 Fax: +1 (978) 952-5054 Email:jfinlay...@nbase-xyplex.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: NRTL Listing
Hi Joe, Personally, in my humble opinion, I'd have to question what would happen to my end user if for any reason what so ever the AC adapter shorted over to the 7vdc side. This is a personal opinion. I try to stand up on a soap box about matters like this and usually lose. But, in my opinion, I try to read the spirit of the standards rather than the black and white. I understand that what I'm suggesting is not really spelled out in black and white somewhere, but if given half the chance, I'd test. One of my jobs is safety whether it's written in some standard or not. I would think of the adapter AND the product to which it's attached as the system. Not only that, but a 115/230 VAC AC powered system and test it as such. Again, simply my opinion ... Regards, Doug McKean At 03:29 PM 6/25/99 -0400, Finlayson, Joe wrote: Hello Group, I am in the midst of evaluating the compliance status of a particular product for a potential OEM relationship. This product is a standalone box with Ethernet ports powered by an external AC adapter with an output of 7VDC. The adapter is NRTL Listed, IEC 950 CB report, etc. although the box itself has no safety certs whatsoever. My understanding is that there is no legal requirement to have an NRTL Listing, etc. for such a product although my policy has been to get that third party mark to minimize liability and such. Can anyone share some more info as to their reasons for listing or not listing such a product which is well below hazardous limits. Horror stories are definitely welcome as I would like ammunition to justify my case to force the issue. Thx, Joe * Joe Finlayson Compliance Engineering Manager NBase-Xyplex 295 Foster Street Littleton, MA 01460 Tel: +1 (978) 952-5887 Fax: +1 (978) 952-5054 Email: jfinlay...@nbase-xyplex.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: NRTL Listing
Richard and Rich, Many persons think of not Listing a product which is powered by a Class 2 source of supply. I would say this: 1. What is the product? For example: if product is a medical product, the system must be assessed to the UL2601-1 and CSA C22.2 601-1 standard; if product has a telecom interface (TNVs) then system must be assessed to UL1950/CSA C22.2 950 3rd Edition; if product is audio/video, then system must be assessed to the applicable audio/video standards (I recently answered a thread on audio video product standards); if product is used around swimming pools, it must be assessed to the applicable US/Canadian Standards depending on the product function. Generally a Class 2 power supply is good for ITE but is not good enough for medical or audio/video applications where additional construction and/or testing is required. Also, if power supply is Class 2 and supplies an outdoor unit, unless the outdoor unit meets the required NEMA designation for enclosures (refer to UL50) and the circuits are not accessible, the Class 2 output should be below 21.2 V peak to be considered safe for wet locations. Based on the above variables, I would strongly suggest you obtain NRTL Listing for your product. I have a client with a battery operated product (2 AA alkaline batteries) who obtained Listing on their portable electronic dictionary; they not only spent money on the Listing process (which was mostly paperwork) but also on the flame rated plastics and PWBs and quarterly inspections required by the NRTL test house and OSHA. Their sales have been oustanding! Good luck with the inspectors out there whatever you do. But most importantly, build your product to meet the applicable safety/emc/etc. standards to minimize lawsuits. I am in basic agreement with Rich. My company makes two types of low voltage products. One type is permanently installed and one is movable. We always use a certified Class 2 or Limited Power Source. Normally we do not obtain certifications for our moveable devices since they are not normally subject to inspection by an electrical inspector. However, experience has shown that the electrical inspectors do ask a lot of questions about the permanetly installed devices, so to prevent the hassle, we do obtain certs on those. However, my understanding of the US and Canadian Electrical codes is that certification is not required for devices powered by a Class 2 source. I once asked the leading manufacture of home intercom/radio equipment is they obtain UL Listing and they said they have never obtained Listing for their Class 2 powered equipment. -- From: Rich Nute [SMTP:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:03 PM To: jfinlay...@nbase-xyplex.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: NRTL Listing Hi Joe: liability and such. Can anyone share some more info as to their reasons for listing or not listing such a product which is well below hazardous limits. There are two schools of thought: 1. Because of its low-voltage supply, the unit is exempt from most safety certifications throughout the world. Therefore, there is no need to obtain any safety certifications. 2. Regardless of being exempt, customers expect most electrical products to bear safety certification marks. Indeed, OSHA and NEC electrical inspectors (and customs inspectors) cannot make field judgements as to whether an electrical product is exempt from safety certification. The presence of the marks assure acceptance without your intervention. I suggest that the decision should be based on your customer base, where the product is used, your company, the product, and the possible difficulties you might encounter without the marks. Any difficulties will have a cost in (1) delaying the product to the customer, and (2) your time to resolve, for the various inspectors, the fact that the product does not require the safety certification. For example, low-voltage products going into the home are not likely to be subject to discrimination due to safety certification marks. On the other hand, products going into the workplace, being part of an electrical installation, or going across borders may very well be subject to inspection for certification marks. Have fun! Rich - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators
RE: NRTL Listing
I am in basic agreement with Rich. My company makes two types of low voltage products. One type is permanently installed and one is movable. We always use a certified Class 2 or Limited Power Source. Normally we do not obtain certifications for our moveable devices since they are not normally subject to inspection by an electrical inspector. However, experience has shown that the electrical inspectors do ask a lot of questions about the permanetly installed devices, so to prevent the hassle, we do obtain certs on those. However, my understanding of the US and Canadian Electrical codes is that certification is not required for devices powered by a Class 2 source. I once asked the leading manufacture of home intercom/radio equipment is they obtain UL Listing and they said they have never obtained Listing for their Class 2 powered equipment. -- From: Rich Nute [SMTP:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:03 PM To: jfinlay...@nbase-xyplex.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: NRTL Listing Hi Joe: liability and such. Can anyone share some more info as to their reasons for listing or not listing such a product which is well below hazardous limits. There are two schools of thought: 1. Because of its low-voltage supply, the unit is exempt from most safety certifications throughout the world. Therefore, there is no need to obtain any safety certifications. 2. Regardless of being exempt, customers expect most electrical products to bear safety certification marks. Indeed, OSHA and NEC electrical inspectors (and customs inspectors) cannot make field judgements as to whether an electrical product is exempt from safety certification. The presence of the marks assure acceptance without your intervention. I suggest that the decision should be based on your customer base, where the product is used, your company, the product, and the possible difficulties you might encounter without the marks. Any difficulties will have a cost in (1) delaying the product to the customer, and (2) your time to resolve, for the various inspectors, the fact that the product does not require the safety certification. For example, low-voltage products going into the home are not likely to be subject to discrimination due to safety certification marks. On the other hand, products going into the workplace, being part of an electrical installation, or going across borders may very well be subject to inspection for certification marks. Have fun! Rich - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: NRTL Listing
Hi Joe: liability and such. Can anyone share some more info as to their reasons for listing or not listing such a product which is well below hazardous limits. There are two schools of thought: 1. Because of its low-voltage supply, the unit is exempt from most safety certifications throughout the world. Therefore, there is no need to obtain any safety certifications. 2. Regardless of being exempt, customers expect most electrical products to bear safety certification marks. Indeed, OSHA and NEC electrical inspectors (and customs inspectors) cannot make field judgements as to whether an electrical product is exempt from safety certification. The presence of the marks assure acceptance without your intervention. I suggest that the decision should be based on your customer base, where the product is used, your company, the product, and the possible difficulties you might encounter without the marks. Any difficulties will have a cost in (1) delaying the product to the customer, and (2) your time to resolve, for the various inspectors, the fact that the product does not require the safety certification. For example, low-voltage products going into the home are not likely to be subject to discrimination due to safety certification marks. On the other hand, products going into the workplace, being part of an electrical installation, or going across borders may very well be subject to inspection for certification marks. Have fun! Rich - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
