Re: RS-103 help
Hi Bill, In the past I was able to get the equipment you seek from Telogy and Metric. As I recall RF generator, TWT amps, and antenna were all available for rent. best regards Tom Cokenias T.N. Cokenias Consulting P.O. Box 1086 El Granada CA 94018 tel 650 726 1263 fax 650 726 1252 At 2:21 PM -0800 11/4/03, Bill Stumpf wrote: Hello all. I need help locating equipment for rent that can achieve the following goals. RS-103 (MIL-STD-461E) testing from 18 GHz to 40 GHz @ 200V/m. If anyone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful. Bill Stumpf William M Stumpf DLS Electronics 166 South Carter St. Genoa City WI 53128 ph: 262-279-0210 fx: 262-279-3630 email: bstu...@dlsemc.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: RS-103 help
-Original Message- From: Ken Javor [ mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 4:03 PM To: Bill Stumpf; 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Re: RS-103 help I am not sure if you are asking for specific equipment model numbers, or general guidance. I will leave the specifics to others. I would start with a high gain horn and a calculation of how far away the far field is developed (2D^2/wavelength). You can use the equation for power density as a function of gain, transmitted power and distance to figure out how much power you need at 1 meter or 2D^2/wavelength. Then you go looking for that TWT power amp. The reason for this approach is that those amps are expensive and hard to find. I don't know if you could rent one at all. If you could find a 1 Watt TWTA, that would work as long as you are satisfied with 2D^2/lambda and not aiming for 1 meter. Also the horn bolts directly to the TWTA waveguide output. You probably can't stand the loss of interconnect between signal generator and amp, unless you plumb the whole thing with rigid waveguide, which would be painful. I recommend the test operator be right in the room with the test sample. I bet I'll draw some flack for that, but that beam is so directional I wouldn't worry about it. If you are worried about it, build a bunker house out of spare foam absorber. Also if you are very close to the EUT there are a couple issues. One is VSWR, you don't want reflected power splashed back into the horn, so you cant the angle slightly (angle of incidence equals angle of reflection) so that the reflected beam is diverted from the horn aperture. A second issue is that with a small illumination spot size you have to have a lot of antenna positions to paint the entire test set-up. MIL-STD-5461E covers that. if you were going to do this all the time it would be worthwhile to plunk down $150K for the 40 Watt amp and get a lower gain horn back at 1 meter and spray the whole test set-up to save time. Like everything else, that decision comes down to time or money. From: Bill Stumpf bstu...@dlsemc.com Reply-To: Bill Stumpf bstu...@dlsemc.com Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:21:20 -0800 To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RS-103 help Hello all. I need help locating equipment for rent that can achieve the following goals. RS-103 (MIL-STD-461E) testing from 18 GHz to 40 GHz @ 200V/m. If anyone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful. Bill Stumpf William M Stumpf DLS Electronics 166 South Carter St. Genoa City WI 53128 ph: 262-279-0210 fx: 262-279-3630 email: bstu...@dlsemc.com Ken hits all the important points, so let me just amplify g on a few of them. I use a 20W TWT amplifier from 8GHz to 18GHz, with an EMCO 3115 double-ridged horn antenna. Since I only go up to 18GHz, I stay in coax. However, I mount the antenna to the coax output of the TWT, to minimize cable loss. I use a long coax (low-power rating, cheap, but very low loss, to run from my external signal generator to the TWT input. This makes best use of the available power, even if the amplifier is within the chamber. My amps are 20W Hughes (not available any more), but check out IFI and Amplifier Research. But once over 18GHz, the best way to go is waveguide. Build up a collection by watching eBay! And a couple of short sections of flex waveguide greatly simplifies your setups. If you have the time, you can easily build a pair (18GHz to 26GHz 26GHz to 40GHz) of pyramidal horns from a section of waveguide and a few sheets of copper (to make the flare). I think you might be able to do the job with 5W TWT's, but 10W units would give you a better margin. I'd guess amps would be in the $12,000 range. And you'll also need a signal source, and maybe PIN diode modulators. You might be able to find an old Gigatronix signal generator, with its external frequency doublers, on the surplus market. Signal sources to 40GHz are either very expensive or science projects. I don't like to use the calculated method of predicting RF exposure; I prefer to stick a bolometer sensor right into the real field. For a sensor, I use the IFI EFS-5 with an external Narda probe (covers 300MHz to 40GHz). New cost is about $4000, but I bought 2 of my EFS-5's off of eBay ($65 $95 each, hah!). Add another $1000 for a remote indicator and some fiberoptic cable. All the trade-offs come down to coverage area. As a rough rule, the 3dB down points of a horn antenna's field are about the same as the visual projection of it's flare; just sight along the antenna edges to see your coverage footprint. It wouldn't be too far off to say that your area of reasonable exposure might only be 6 long! This doesn't pose too much of a problem if you're testing a hand-held gadget, but if you have two 7-foot tall equipment racks, you'll have to make a lot
Re: RS-103 help
I am not sure if you are asking for specific equipment model numbers, or general guidance. I will leave the specifics to others. I would start with a high gain horn and a calculation of how far away the far field is developed (2D^2/wavelength). You can use the equation for power density as a function of gain, transmitted power and distance to figure out how much power you need at 1 meter or 2D^2/wavelength. Then you go looking for that TWT power amp. The reason for this approach is that those amps are expensive and hard to find. I don't know if you could rent one at all. If you could find a 1 Watt TWTA, that would work as long as you are satisfied with 2D^2/lambda and not aiming for 1 meter. Also the horn bolts directly to the TWTA waveguide output. You probably can't stand the loss of interconnect between signal generator and amp, unless you plumb the whole thing with rigid waveguide, which would be painful. I recommend the test operator be right in the room with the test sample. I bet I'll draw some flack for that, but that beam is so directional I wouldn't worry about it. If you are worried about it, build a bunker house out of spare foam absorber. Also if you are very close to the EUT there are a couple issues. One is VSWR, you don't want reflected power splashed back into the horn, so you cant the angle slightly (angle of incidence equals angle of reflection) so that the reflected beam is diverted from the horn aperture. A second issue is that with a small illumination spot size you have to have a lot of antenna positions to paint the entire test set-up. MIL-STD-5461E covers that. if you were going to do this all the time it would be worthwhile to plunk down $150K for the 40 Watt amp and get a lower gain horn back at 1 meter and spray the whole test set-up to save time. Like everything else, that decision comes down to time or money. From: Bill Stumpf bstu...@dlsemc.com Reply-To: Bill Stumpf bstu...@dlsemc.com Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:21:20 -0800 To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RS-103 help Hello all. I need help locating equipment for rent that can achieve the following goals. RS-103 (MIL-STD-461E) testing from 18 GHz to 40 GHz @ 200V/m. If anyone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful. Bill Stumpf William M Stumpf DLS Electronics 166 South Carter St. Genoa City WI 53128 ph: 262-279-0210 fx: 262-279-3630 email: bstu...@dlsemc.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
