Re: DOCOPOCOSS for EN 60065 : 1998
Scott To presume compliance by applying the harmonised standard, the manufacturer need to place the product on the market before the DOCOPOCOSS. Have a look at section 2.3 of Guide to the implementation of directives based on the New Approach and the Global Approach (the blue book)http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/ne approach/legislation/guide/document/1999_1282_en.pdf regards Charlie A question about the Date of Cessation of Presumption of Conformity of the Superseded Standard. If a product is tested to (and the CB Report indicates) EN 60065 : 1998, when is the last time that product can be sold to a customer? More specifically, if a product is near it's end of life by that date, can we build ahead and ship to the warehouse before that date? We will not be able to sell all to customers by that date, but they would be built and in storage. So is it still legal to sell these pre-built products to customers after the date? I know the date is March 1, 2007. We have some products close to end of life, say EOL by June 2007. Can we build that extra few months of sales and put them in storage in February and then still sell them after March? We're not talking RoHS here, only and specifically safety and the CE Mark. As always, I look forward to your expert replies, and I thank you in advance. Scott Douglas sdoug...@ptcnh.net - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: DOCOPOCOSS for EN 60065 : 1998
In message 448e2655.3000...@ptcnh.net, dated Mon, 12 Jun 2006, Scott Douglas sdoug...@ptcnh.net writes If a product is tested to (and the CB Report indicates) EN 60065 : 1998, when is the last time that product can be sold to a customer? More specifically, if a product is near it's end of life by that date, can we build ahead and ship to the warehouse before that date? We will not be able to sell all to customers by that date, but they would be built and in storage. So is it still legal to sell these pre-built products to customers after the date? Not if you have retained ownership after the docopocoss. I know the date is March 1, 2007. We have some products close to end of life, say EOL by June 2007. Can we build that extra few months of sales and put them in storage in February and then still sell them after March? We're not talking RoHS here, only and specifically safety and the CE Mark. No, you must 'place [them] on the market' before the cut-off date, by putting them into the distribution chain. Depending on how you market the products, your distributors may agree to take them into stock, but ownership must be transferred from your company to them. You may feel that this is not sensible, but if it were not so, abuse of the docopocoss would be easy. There seem to be no other way of doing it. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: DOCOPOCOSS?
Ian, Dates in the Official Journal of the European Communities (OJ) are in the form dd.mm.. John Barnes KS4GL, PE, NCE, ESDC Eng, SM IEEE dBi Corporation http://www.dbicorporation.com/ This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: DOCOPOCOSS?
I read in !emc-pstc that Gordon,Ian ian.gor...@edwards.boc.com wrote (in E1BA0362B28ED211A1E80008C71EA3060181920D@EXC_EAS01) about 'DOCOPOCOSS?' on Mon, 6 Jan 2003: In the link supplied below by Peter my concern is with EN61010-1. Will EN61010-1:1993 replace EN61010-1:1990 on 1/4/04? I would not think so; that's an 11 year transition period, which is highly improbable. Does the table show that after 1/4/04 the 2001 version must be used? That would be a normal 3-year transition period. May both the 1993 and 2001 versions be used concurrently after 1/4/04? Most unlikely. By the way, are the dates quoted in the OJ dd/mm/yy or mm/dd/yy? They *should* be (yy)yy-mm-dd, but it's very unlikely indeed that they are mm-dd-yy, unless someone has made a BIG mistake. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: DOCOPOCOSS?
Ian, Up to 1/4/2004 both standards - EN61010-1:1993 and EN61010-1:2001 - can be used for presumption of conformity to the essential requirements of the LVD. From 1/4/2004 , EN61010-1:2001 is the only standard that must be used to show compliance for products that are still put on the EU market from that date. Regards, Kris From: Gordon,Ian [mailto:ian.gor...@edwards.boc.com] Sent: maandag 6 januari 2003 11:57 To: 'IEEE EMC-PSTC GROUP' Cc: 'Peters, Michael' Subject: DOCOPOCOSS? All In the link supplied below by Peter my concern is with EN61010-1. Will EN61010-1:1993 replace EN61010-1:1990 on 1/4/04? Does the table show that after 1/4/04 the 2001 version must be used? May both the 1993 and 2001 versions be used concurrently after 1/4/04? By the way, are the dates quoted in the OJ dd/mm/yy or mm/dd/yy? LVD: Commission communication in the framework of the implementation of Council Directive 73/23/EEC - OJ C 317 of 2002-12-18 (this list replaces all the previous lists published in the Official Journal of the European Communities) http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/oj/2002/c_31720021218en.html Thanks Ian Gordon _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: docopocoss
John: The way I have been pronouncing DOCOPOCOSS, it almost rhymes with HOCUS POCUS, which I judge is more ironical than poetical (sic). Regards, Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org - Original Message - From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: Re: docopocoss I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote (in b78135310217d511907c0090273f5190d0b...@curly.ds.cubic.com) about 'docopocoss' on Wed, 6 Nov 2002: Maybe we could come to admire DOCOPOCOSS more if we could rhyme it with something. It's very difficult to get a true rhyme for multi-syllable words which are accented on the first syllable. Hence: O all ye lords of ladies intellectual, Admit it now; have they not hen-pecked you all. [Author unknown to me] -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: docopocoss
John- I know you invented the word, and thus have first claim on it. But I was putting the accent on the penultimate syllable, making it much easier to rhyme. Don Borowski John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk@majordomo.ieee.org on 11/06/2002 09:03:51 AM Please respond to John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Sent by:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject:Re: docopocoss I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote (in b78135310217d511907c0090273f5190d0b...@curly.ds.cubic.com) about 'docopocoss' on Wed, 6 Nov 2002: Maybe we could come to admire DOCOPOCOSS more if we could rhyme it with something. It's very difficult to get a true rhyme for multi-syllable words which are accented on the first syllable. Hence: O all ye lords of ladies intellectual, Admit it now; have they not hen-pecked you all. [Author unknown to me] -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: docopocoss
I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote (in b78135310217d511907c0090273f5190d0b...@curly.ds.cubic.com) about 'docopocoss' on Wed, 6 Nov 2002: Maybe we could come to admire DOCOPOCOSS more if we could rhyme it with something. It's very difficult to get a true rhyme for multi-syllable words which are accented on the first syllable. Hence: O all ye lords of ladies intellectual, Admit it now; have they not hen-pecked you all. [Author unknown to me] -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: docopocoss
-Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 2:01 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: docopocoss I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote (in b78135310217d511907c0090273f5190d0b...@curly.ds.cubic.com) about 'docopocoss' on Tue, 5 Nov 2002: In view of the elegance of docopocoss, drawing quartering comes to mind. Look, I didn't invent 'date of cessation of presumption of conformity of the superseded standard' - that's probably down to someone in the Commission's legal department. I just balked at typing it out over and over again, so I just copied the 'doa', 'dop', 'dow' system. The initials might have produced an even less elegant 'word'. -- Sorry, John. Try to remember that linguistic pioneers sometimes catch an arrow. I had also done a Google search, and found your name at the top of a very short list of references. The first thing about getting a newly minted word into general usage is to have a snappy pronunciation. Let's take a hint from Spanish, and accent the second syllable. That yields an English-friendly doh coh' poh caws. Maybe we could come to admire DOCOPOCOSS more if we could rhyme it with something. Hmmm: DOCOPOCOSS Don't forget to floss A dirty double-cross Help an old lady across A rock with no moss Here comes the boss And on that note, I realize I better get back to work. Regards, Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: docopocoss
-Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:04 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: docopocoss I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in 200211051744.jaa26...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'docopocoss' on Tue, 5 Nov 2002: docopocoss This word was unknown to me. I checked an American dictionary and could not find it. Then, I called up the Google search engine and entered the word, hoping to find an English dictionary. Google immediately came back with the definition. We just put a new word into English! We should get an award for that. (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. In view of the elegance of docopocoss, drawing quartering comes to mind. g Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: docopocoss
Bob Johnson ITE http://www.itesafety.com/ Safety -Original Message- From: Robert Johnson [mailto:john...@itesafety.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:34 PM To: 'Rich Nute' Subject: RE: docopocoss docopocoss This word was unknown to me. I checked an American Websters New Third World Unabridged dictionary and could not find it. Then, I called up the Google search engine and entered the word, hoping to find an English dictionary. Google immediately came back with the definition. :^) Bob Johnson ITE Safety -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Rich Nute Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 12:44 PM To: j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: docopocoss docopocoss This word was unknown to me. I checked an American dictionary and could not find it. Then, I called up the Google search engine and entered the word, hoping to find an English dictionary. Google immediately came back with the definition. Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: docopocoss
I read in !emc-pstc that Roman, Dan dan.ro...@intel.com wrote (in 3d90571297abd511957400508bf29c43022cc...@pysmsx101.py.intel.com) about 'docopocoss' on Tue, 5 Nov 2002: Yes, with apparently only one user of this word on the face of the planet! :-) You mean little MEEE? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: docopocoss
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in 200211051744.jaa26...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'docopocoss' on Tue, 5 Nov 2002: docopocoss This word was unknown to me. I checked an American dictionary and could not find it. Then, I called up the Google search engine and entered the word, hoping to find an English dictionary. Google immediately came back with the definition. We just put a new word into English! We should get an award for that. (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: docopocoss
Yes, with apparently only one user of this word on the face of the planet! :-) TLAs are bad enough, 10LAs I can't handle (guess that would be a TLA as well). Dan -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 12:44 PM To: j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: docopocoss docopocoss This word was unknown to me. I checked an American dictionary and could not find it. Then, I called up the Google search engine and entered the word, hoping to find an English dictionary. Google immediately came back with the definition. Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
