RE: product modifications by the end user
Thank you for the many replies on this topic, as usual this forum has come up trumps. I managed to compose a memo that persuaded our people that modification kits should only be supplied to suitably qualified distributors. Cheers Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: product modifications by the end user
Et Al: I fully agree with Bob Wilson's comments concerning a good solution. It is only when marketing becomes responsible for its decisions will it provide marketing information that is truly useful. Regards, Jeff -Original Message- From: Robert Wilson [mailto:robert_wil...@tirsys.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 12:16 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: product modifications by the end user One solution that would soon get rid of the problem at its source, would be to have the Marketing Moron do a few of the upgrades himself. With any luck, he would find out firsthand the effects of electrical current flow through the human body. :) Bob Wilson TIR Systems Ltd. Vancouver. -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com] Sent: March 19, 2002 4:36 AM To: 'Emc-Pstc' (E-mail) Subject: product modifications by the end user Hello good people Just say someone in your marketing department came up with the bright idea of selling upgrade kits to an unqualified, untrained end user that involved removing the top cover of a product. In the process not only would the victim be exposed to hazardous voltages (if the product was still connected to the mains) but he/she would also have to wire up mains connections. There would also be a possibility that critical insulation would be disturbed. Apart from telling them that they were mad and suggesting that someone could be killed or seriously injured, would there be any black and white legislation that you could use to help bin this idea? I can't find anything specific in EN60065 or the LVD. Thanks for any input Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing
Re: product modifications by the end user
I read in !emc-pstc that Allen, John john.al...@uk.thalesgroup.com wrote (in 999c839e7e27d41185ec00d0b7473692024cd...@norway.int.rdel.co.u k) about 'product modifications by the end user', on Tue, 19 Mar 2002: John Allen Thales Bracknell (This is probably my last post on the forum as I will be leaving Thales tomorrow! You don't have to leave the group for that reason. (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: product modifications by the end user
Hi Folks Safety compliance for an add-in card is not an impossibiity! You can follow EN 60950 and come up with a compliant product design which allows user access to internal SELV status parts. This is often the case with PC's. You may then design a card for installation within such a product which, together with the installation instructions, is deemed a compliant product. The same is true of certain games machines having SELV cartridge ports where a cover is removed allowing expansion memory etc. to be fitted. PCs designed in this way often require no tools to remove the access cover, some have knurled nuts or twist locks. I even beleive there is a UL scheme (although I haven't checked for a few months) to cover PCs designed in this way and also a scheme to cover a UL Listed Accessory card for use in these. This scheme includes the documentation in the listing. There may still be some EMC issues to address but safety compliance is not impossible! Bill Ellingford -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: 19 March 2002 14:26 To: Colgan, Chris Cc: 'Emc-Pstc' (E-mail) Subject: Re: product modifications by the end user Chris, Every set of existing rules has an intent, to be achieved by following the letter of the rules. Personally, I always consider meeting the intent far superior to meeting the letter of rules. Example, the letter of the law says we must stop at stop signs before proceeding. The intent is to avoid accidents. We all know that sometimes we must exceed the rules, i.e. defensive driving, because the situation demands it. We also know that if the stop sign is in the middle of a desert, and we can see 5 miles in all directions, one would be meeting the intent of the law if no other cars could be seen, an we did not stop at the sign. The intent of IEC 60950 and like standards is to avoid personal injury and property damage. End users are generally considered operators under the standard. As such, they are to be reasonably prevented from access to hazards in the equipment. This does not mean that the equipment must be in a welded steel box, but that tools are required to enter hazardous areas, and the operator manual does not direct the operator to access such areas. The General Principles of 60950 (page 19) clearly states under Electric Shock : Prevent operator access to parts at hazardous voltage by fixed or locked covers, interlocks, etc. Page 17 indicates that operators are assumed to be oblivious to electrical hazards. When all else fails in such situations as yours, I get something in writing indicating that my team has explained the hazards and risks, and the the Product Manager (or other responsible party) understands and accepts these risks. This usually closes the issue. George Colgan, Chris chris.colgan%tagmclaren@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/19/2002 07:36:09 AM Please respond to Colgan, Chris chris.colgan%tagmclaren@interlock.lexmark.com To: 'Emc-Pstc' (E-mail) emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: product modifications by the end user Hello good people Just say someone in your marketing department came up with the bright idea of selling upgrade kits to an unqualified, untrained end user that involved removing the top cover of a product. In the process not only would the victim be exposed to hazardous voltages (if the product was still connected to the mains) but he/she would also have to wire up mains connections. There would also be a possibility that critical insulation would be disturbed. Apart from telling them that they were mad and suggesting that someone could be killed or seriously injured, would there be any black and white legislation that you could use to help bin this idea? I can't find anything specific in EN60065 or the LVD. Thanks for any input Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list * --- This message is from the IEEE EMC
RE: product modifications by the end user
One solution that would soon get rid of the problem at its source, would be to have the Marketing Moron do a few of the upgrades himself. With any luck, he would find out firsthand the effects of electrical current flow through the human body. :) Bob Wilson TIR Systems Ltd. Vancouver. -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com] Sent: March 19, 2002 4:36 AM To: 'Emc-Pstc' (E-mail) Subject: product modifications by the end user Hello good people Just say someone in your marketing department came up with the bright idea of selling upgrade kits to an unqualified, untrained end user that involved removing the top cover of a product. In the process not only would the victim be exposed to hazardous voltages (if the product was still connected to the mains) but he/she would also have to wire up mains connections. There would also be a possibility that critical insulation would be disturbed. Apart from telling them that they were mad and suggesting that someone could be killed or seriously injured, would there be any black and white legislation that you could use to help bin this idea? I can't find anything specific in EN60065 or the LVD. Thanks for any input Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: product modifications by the end user
Hi Chris, In addition to what Richard has said, may I suggest that you take a serious look at the Product Liability Directive, 85/374/EEC along with its amending directive 1999/34/EC. Remember, that it is a fuzzy gray area, indeed, that separates product safety from product liability, no matter how descriptive the standards are. And, due diligence has left the building whereby untrained personnel is allowed into an unsafe area of your product(s), which might be considered as lawyer fodder. Do you really want to go there? Ultimately, the decision must be laid at the feet of your company's management. I hope this helps. Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com richwo...@tycoint.com Sent by: To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org owner-emc-pstc@majordomcc: o.ieee.org Subject: RE: product modifications by the end user 03/19/02 07:38 AM Please respond to richwoods The LVD has an essential requirement for the safety of the user from electrical shock - see 1d, 2a and 2d of Annex 1. This essential requirement is transposed into the user access requirements of EN 60065. Anytime the user instructions instruct the user to open an electrical enclosure, the design must be sufficient to ensure that the user cannot access hazardous parts. Instructing them to remove power is not sufficient. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:36 AM To: 'Emc-Pstc' (E-mail) Subject: product modifications by the end user Hello good people Just say someone in your marketing department came up with the bright idea of selling upgrade kits to an unqualified, untrained end user that involved removing the top cover of a product. In the process not only would the victim be exposed to hazardous voltages (if the product was still connected to the mains) but he/she would also have to wire up mains connections. There would also be a possibility that critical insulation would be disturbed. Apart from telling them that they were mad and suggesting that someone could be killed or seriously injured, would there be any black and white legislation that you could use to help bin this idea? I can't find anything specific in EN60065 or the LVD. Thanks for any input Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line
Re: product modifications by the end user
I read in !emc-pstc that Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclaren.com wrote (in AE0F4BD08FEAD211895900805FE67B1F01090F0D@CAT) about 'product modifications by the end user', on Tue, 19 Mar 2002: Just say someone in your marketing department came up with the bright idea of selling upgrade kits to an unqualified, untrained end user that involved removing the top cover of a product. In the process not only would the victim be exposed to hazardous voltages (if the product was still connected to the mains) but he/she would also have to wire up mains connections. There would also be a possibility that critical insulation would be disturbed. Apart from telling them that they were mad and suggesting that someone could be killed or seriously injured, would there be any black and white legislation that you could use to help bin this idea? I can't find anything specific in EN60065 or the LVD. You wouldn't find such a detailed matter in a well-written new-style Directive. In the EN, (1998 edition) it's in the first sentence of 8.4, if you can get the top off without using a tool, and the first sentence of 9.1.1 if you need a tool to get it off, but instruct the user to use a tool. Operation with the cover off then becomes a 'normal operating condition' under 4.2 and the product would be tested with the cover off as well as on. I agree that the EN is not very specific on this issue, and that is because no-one envisaged that any manufacturer would be daft enough to advise the user to use a tool to take the cover off! If your marketroid persists, I'll take the issue to the committee meeting in April and get a definite interpretation. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: product modifications by the end user
Chris I would be inclined to look at the General Product Safety Directive http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1992/en_392L0059.html and the Product Liability Directive http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1999/en_399L0034.html You would probably also have to look at case law which resulted from the application of these two directives - notably the latter! Probably means that you would need to talk of to relevant legal counsel (e.g. CMS Cameron McKenna = law...@cmck.com) who specialise in these directives. When you have shown how liable the company becomes under these, then maybe you can scare the pants of the marketing department! However, if for some reason, you do have to go ahead with these mod kits, then ensure you have extremely explicit instructions (what to do/not do) and diagrams - preceeed by a clear warning that the mods must only be performed by a techically trained and competant person, and that the owner should not proceed with the mods if he has any doubts on his ability to perform them safely. However, in the marketing department's defence, it must be said that even repairing your own car incorrectly can be extremely dangerous (far more so than these mod kits)- and yet you can buy the parts and the service manuals almost anywhere. So there is some case for saying that such modifications can be quite acceptable if performed by the right person with the correct tools and training. Regards John Allen Thales Bracknell (This is probably my last post on the forum as I will be leaving Thales tomorrow! You might also -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com] Sent: 19 March 2002 12:36 To: 'Emc-Pstc' (E-mail) Subject: product modifications by the end user Hello good people Just say someone in your marketing department came up with the bright idea of selling upgrade kits to an unqualified, untrained end user that involved removing the top cover of a product. In the process not only would the victim be exposed to hazardous voltages (if the product was still connected to the mains) but he/she would also have to wire up mains connections. There would also be a possibility that critical insulation would be disturbed. Apart from telling them that they were mad and suggesting that someone could be killed or seriously injured, would there be any black and white legislation that you could use to help bin this idea? I can't find anything specific in EN60065 or the LVD. Thanks for any input Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the
Re: product modifications by the end user
Chris, Every set of existing rules has an intent, to be achieved by following the letter of the rules. Personally, I always consider meeting the intent far superior to meeting the letter of rules. Example, the letter of the law says we must stop at stop signs before proceeding. The intent is to avoid accidents. We all know that sometimes we must exceed the rules, i.e. defensive driving, because the situation demands it. We also know that if the stop sign is in the middle of a desert, and we can see 5 miles in all directions, one would be meeting the intent of the law if no other cars could be seen, an we did not stop at the sign. The intent of IEC 60950 and like standards is to avoid personal injury and property damage. End users are generally considered operators under the standard. As such, they are to be reasonably prevented from access to hazards in the equipment. This does not mean that the equipment must be in a welded steel box, but that tools are required to enter hazardous areas, and the operator manual does not direct the operator to access such areas. The General Principles of 60950 (page 19) clearly states under Electric Shock : Prevent operator access to parts at hazardous voltage by fixed or locked covers, interlocks, etc. Page 17 indicates that operators are assumed to be oblivious to electrical hazards. When all else fails in such situations as yours, I get something in writing indicating that my team has explained the hazards and risks, and the the Product Manager (or other responsible party) understands and accepts these risks. This usually closes the issue. George Colgan, Chris chris.colgan%tagmclaren@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/19/2002 07:36:09 AM Please respond to Colgan, Chris chris.colgan%tagmclaren@interlock.lexmark.com To: 'Emc-Pstc' (E-mail) emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: product modifications by the end user Hello good people Just say someone in your marketing department came up with the bright idea of selling upgrade kits to an unqualified, untrained end user that involved removing the top cover of a product. In the process not only would the victim be exposed to hazardous voltages (if the product was still connected to the mains) but he/she would also have to wire up mains connections. There would also be a possibility that critical insulation would be disturbed. Apart from telling them that they were mad and suggesting that someone could be killed or seriously injured, would there be any black and white legislation that you could use to help bin this idea? I can't find anything specific in EN60065 or the LVD. Thanks for any input Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: product modifications by the end user
Chris, I'm not sure about EN60065, but in EN60950 the user is always considered to be unqualified personnel and therefore does not know what they are exposing themselves to. If you invite a user to remove a cover from a unit (even if you have told them to disconnect the mains) the whole of the unit becomes user accessible by definition of the standard and must be safe even when powered. The user should not be exposed to any hazardous energy / voltages i.e. all circuits should be SELV. Maybe you should ask the bright marketing person to have a go. If he survives then it is OK. Cheers, Chris. Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclaren.com on 19/03/2002 12:36:09 Please respond to Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclaren.com Sent by: Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclaren.com To: 'Emc-Pstc' cc:(Chris Allen/GB/3Com) Subject: product modifications by the end user Hello good people Just say someone in your marketing department came up with the bright idea of selling upgrade kits to an unqualified, untrained end user that involved removing the top cover of a product. In the process not only would the victim be exposed to hazardous voltages (if the product was still connected to the mains) but he/she would also have to wire up mains connections. There would also be a possibility that critical insulation would be disturbed. Apart from telling them that they were mad and suggesting that someone could be killed or seriously injured, would there be any black and white legislation that you could use to help bin this idea? I can't find anything specific in EN60065 or the LVD. Thanks for any input Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) ** Please visit us at www.tagmclaren.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
