RE: surges on 24VAC
At 15:16 21/12/01 -0500, John Juhasz wrote: > >If the 24V AC is generated via a Class II Direct Plug-In power >pack, wouldn't the test be run 'through' the power pack - the power >pack plugged into the outlet on the surge tester? I see your point, but as I understand it, only if the power pack is made available with the apparatus to the end user, i.e. a system. This is up to the manufacturer to define. Enci --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: surges on 24VAC
I read in !emc-pstc that John Juhasz wrote (in <2a1845f4cde8d511b4400090279c703b14e...@bctexc10.na.ilxi.net>) about 'surges on 24VAC', on Fri, 21 Dec 2001: >The functional circuit operates off of 24V AC, >but the primary power is AC Mains - whether it's >supplied through a line cord/power entry module combo >or a direct plug-in transformer. We aren't told what supplies the 24 V a.c. . It may be a supply that is highly unlikely to experience a surge of any sort. Whatever the supply system is, the surge test intended for mains voltage ports is not appropriate to be applied to the 24 V a.c. port. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: surges on 24VAC
I read in !emc-pstc that Mavis, Robert wrote (in ) about 'surges on 24VAC', on Fri, 21 Dec 2001: >The AC Mains test is just that AC Mains. The Definition of AC mains is >basically what comes out of the wall. Since the product is 24VAC it falls >under low voltage/signal lines. Test is as a signal line. No, the standard uses the term 'a.c. power port' in Table 4. It says noting about 'mains'. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: surges on 24VAC
If the 24V AC is generated via a Class II Direct Plug-In power pack, wouldn't the test be run 'through' the power pack - the power pack plugged into the outlet on the surge tester? The power pack runs off of AC Mains. For argument sake, what's the difference of that scenario as compared to having to test a product which is configured with an IEC 320 power entry module through which a 24V AC transformer inside the product receives it's AC Mains? The functional circuit operates off of 24V AC, but the primary power is AC Mains - whether it's supplied through a line cord/power entry module combo or a direct plug-in transformer. My opinion only . . . John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Mavis, Robert [mailto:rma...@pelco.com] Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 1:46 PM To: Jennifer Banh; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: surges on 24VAC The AC Mains test is just that AC Mains. The Definition of AC mains is basically what comes out of the wall. Since the product is 24VAC it falls under low voltage/signal lines. Test is as a signal line. -Original Message- From: Jennifer Banh [mailto:jb...@bb-elec.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:44 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: surges on 24VAC Hello everyone, I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN 61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. Thanks, Jennifer Banh BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: surges on 24VAC
The AC Mains test is just that AC Mains. The Definition of AC mains is basically what comes out of the wall. Since the product is 24VAC it falls under low voltage/signal lines. Test is as a signal line. -Original Message- From: Jennifer Banh [mailto:jb...@bb-elec.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:44 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: surges on 24VAC Hello everyone, I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN 61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. Thanks, Jennifer Banh BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: surges on 24VAC
Blush you appear correct. Availability error I guess. The most available situation to my mind was my own recent DC situation. Actually, it makes this a even more intersting question. I apologize if I confused anyone Gary -Original Message- From: Yow, Steve (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [mailto:steve@gefanuc.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:19 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: surges on 24VAC It seems all the answers are for DC power. I thought the question was for 24V AC. At least that is how it read in the subject.. Any changes to the comments. -Original Message- From: Michael Taylor [mailto:mtay...@hach.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:34 AM To: 'KC CHAN [PDD]'; jb...@bb-elec.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: surges on 24VAC As a matter of policy my company tests DC ports to the appropriate levels on all products where we do not supply the external DC Power Supply. As we cannot guarantee the quality of the DC power supply the customer will use or the installation, we assume the worst. In this instance you would be relying on a DC supply you know nothing about to protect your product from transients. It's simply a matter of "Do you want to be known as a supplier of products that work ALL THE TIME - or SOME of the time. Occasionally you have to remind the marketing department of the cost of poor quality. While it may cost a dollar or two to add appropriate protection, the cost of no protection is much higher in the long run. Warranty costs can eat a company alive not to mention the reputation one could acquire for quality problems. In my opinion, it's not worth the risk to not test & fix, where appropriate. Just one guy's opinion. Regards, Michael Taylor Colorado -Original Message- From: KC CHAN [PDD] [ mailto:kcc...@hkpc.org <mailto:kcc...@hkpc.org> ] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:49 PM To: jb...@bb-elec.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: surges on 24VAC I am thinking if it is possible to connect the source input to the surge tester to a DC source, instead of the AC source, then you can apply the surge tests to the DC input of your product. >>> "Jennifer Banh" 12/18/01 03:43am >>> Hello everyone, I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN 61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. Thanks, Jennifer Banh BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ <http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/> To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ <http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/> To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: ma
RE: surges on 24VAC
I couldn't find a requirement either when I looked under various standards that I have to comply with 55024 which calls out the 82-1 requirements, NEBS and some ETSI standards. I was a little more concerned because the equipment I am looking at is actually outdoors so there will be copper lines that don't have any primary protection and are as exposed to lightning strikes and power cross as are AC supply lines. The lines will be feet rather than kilometers for the AC power grid and that is beneficial but doesn't solve it all, IMHO. However, I did decide to put transient protection on the product regardless of a known requirement to test, but again I am in somewhat of an unusual position. Powered by DC but up on a power pole or power strand line. If you run across anything that requires the test from any direct e-mail please let me know also. Thanks Gary -Original Message- From: Mike Hopkins [mailto:mhopk...@thermokeytek.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:40 AM To: 'KC CHAN [PDD]'; jb...@bb-elec.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: surges on 24VAC Most Surge testers having ac mains couplers will also work with DC power (some require minor options to work), so actually doing the test is pretty easy Question as I read it was if it is in fact reasonable Mike Hopkins Thermo KeyTek -Original Message- From: KC CHAN [PDD] [mailto:kcc...@hkpc.org] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:49 PM To: jb...@bb-elec.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: surges on 24VAC I am thinking if it is possible to connect the source input to the surge tester to a DC source, instead of the AC source, then you can apply the surge tests to the DC input of your product. >>> "Jennifer Banh" 12/18/01 03:43am >>> Hello everyone, I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN 61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. Thanks, Jennifer Banh BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This mes
Re: surges on 24VAC
I read in !emc-pstc that Michael Taylor wrote (in ) about 'surges on 24VAC', on Tue, 18 Dec 2001: >As a matter of policy my company tests DC ports to the appropriate levels on >all products where we do not supply the external DC Power Supply. As we >cannot guarantee the quality of the DC power supply the customer will use or >the installation, we assume the worst. In this instance you would be >relying on a DC supply you know nothing about to protect your product from >transients. He quite clearly says it's a 24 V AC, not DC, power port. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: surges on 24VAC
It seems all the answers are for DC power. I thought the question was for 24V AC. At least that is how it read in the subject.. Any changes to the comments. -Original Message- From: Michael Taylor [mailto:mtay...@hach.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:34 AM To: 'KC CHAN [PDD]'; jb...@bb-elec.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: surges on 24VAC As a matter of policy my company tests DC ports to the appropriate levels on all products where we do not supply the external DC Power Supply. As we cannot guarantee the quality of the DC power supply the customer will use or the installation, we assume the worst. In this instance you would be relying on a DC supply you know nothing about to protect your product from transients. It's simply a matter of "Do you want to be known as a supplier of products that work ALL THE TIME - or SOME of the time. Occasionally you have to remind the marketing department of the cost of poor quality. While it may cost a dollar or two to add appropriate protection, the cost of no protection is much higher in the long run. Warranty costs can eat a company alive not to mention the reputation one could acquire for quality problems. In my opinion, it's not worth the risk to not test & fix, where appropriate. Just one guy's opinion. Regards, Michael Taylor Colorado -Original Message- From: KC CHAN [PDD] [ mailto:kcc...@hkpc.org <mailto:kcc...@hkpc.org> ] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:49 PM To: jb...@bb-elec.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: surges on 24VAC I am thinking if it is possible to connect the source input to the surge tester to a DC source, instead of the AC source, then you can apply the surge tests to the DC input of your product. >>> "Jennifer Banh" 12/18/01 03:43am >>> Hello everyone, I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN 61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. Thanks, Jennifer Banh BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ <http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/> To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ <http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/> To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer
RE: surges on 24VAC
Most Surge testers having ac mains couplers will also work with DC power (some require minor options to work), so actually doing the test is pretty easy Question as I read it was if it is in fact reasonable Mike Hopkins Thermo KeyTek -Original Message- From: KC CHAN [PDD] [mailto:kcc...@hkpc.org] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:49 PM To: jb...@bb-elec.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: surges on 24VAC I am thinking if it is possible to connect the source input to the surge tester to a DC source, instead of the AC source, then you can apply the surge tests to the DC input of your product. >>> "Jennifer Banh" 12/18/01 03:43am >>> Hello everyone, I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN 61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. Thanks, Jennifer Banh BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: surges on 24VAC
As a matter of policy my company tests DC ports to the appropriate levels on all products where we do not supply the external DC Power Supply. As we cannot guarantee the quality of the DC power supply the customer will use or the installation, we assume the worst. In this instance you would be relying on a DC supply you know nothing about to protect your product from transients. It's simply a matter of "Do you want to be known as a supplier of products that work ALL THE TIME - or SOME of the time. Occasionally you have to remind the marketing department of the cost of poor quality. While it may cost a dollar or two to add appropriate protection, the cost of no protection is much higher in the long run. Warranty costs can eat a company alive not to mention the reputation one could acquire for quality problems. In my opinion, it's not worth the risk to not test & fix, where appropriate. Just one guy's opinion. Regards, Michael Taylor Colorado -Original Message- From: KC CHAN [PDD] [mailto:kcc...@hkpc.org] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:49 PM To: jb...@bb-elec.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: surges on 24VAC I am thinking if it is possible to connect the source input to the surge tester to a DC source, instead of the AC source, then you can apply the surge tests to the DC input of your product. >>> "Jennifer Banh" 12/18/01 03:43am >>> Hello everyone, I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN 61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. Thanks, Jennifer Banh BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: surges on 24VAC
Hi Jennifer, I would argue that the test should not be applied that port, simply because that port is fed from a 24V supply upstream. It is perfectly reasonable to specify in the product documentation that the supply upstream must meet the requirements. Why make the compliance process more onerous? Furthermore, Annex A, and Annex B of EN61000-4-5, recognises a product such as yours by allowing you to specify the installation classification, e.g. Class 0, look at Table A.1 and all the tests are not applicable. Regards, Enci At 13:43 17/12/01 -0600, you wrote: > >Hello everyone, > I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 >generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we >have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN >61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems >that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that >says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside >opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. > >Thanks, >Jennifer Banh > >BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions >on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. > > > >--- >This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety >Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > >Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > >To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org >with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > >For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net > >For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > >All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: surges on 24VAC
Jennifer, I have instructed those clients I deal with to test the input as follows: Get a transformer thats typical for your unit, and apply the surge to the input of it. Keep the leads short. By doing this you have made an attempt to met the standard. And, yes I know it's not perfect, but it beats doing nothing Derek. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: surges on 24VAC
I am thinking if it is possible to connect the source input to the surge tester to a DC source, instead of the AC source, then you can apply the surge tests to the DC input of your product. >>> "Jennifer Banh" 12/18/01 03:43am >>> Hello everyone, I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN 61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. Thanks, Jennifer Banh BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: surges on 24VAC
I read in !emc-pstc that Jennifer Banh wrote (in ) about 'surges on 24VAC', on Mon, 17 Dec 2001: >I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 >generic standard for light industrial equipment. If this is a new product, you should be using EN61000-6-1. Look at clause 8. It is indeed not reasonable to apply the mains surge test to a 24 V power port. Make sure you explain this fully in your technical file. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: surges on 24VAC
The surge test in 61000-4-5 is for testing for the effects of a lightning remnants getting into the mains or an I-O/Telecom line. Some product committees require surge tests to any power port, regardless of the source of that power, but it seems to me that unless the 24V power is from a distributed DC system coming from outside a structure where a lightning remnant could get in, lightning testing doesn't make much sense. We it WOULD make sense is to unit that converts the AC into 24V!. It seems there are such things as distributed DC systems (i.e. the telephone system in the US is a 48V DC system bring DC into homes and buildings from wires strung on telephone poles) and for these systems, lightning testing might make sense -- hence no provision in the standard that makes DC systems exempt from testing. Hope this is helpful... Mike Hopkins Thermo KeyTek -Original Message- From: Jennifer Banh [mailto:jb...@bb-elec.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 2:44 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: surges on 24VAC Hello everyone, I am currently trying to test a product of ours that falls under 50082-1 generic standard for light industrial equipment. Our problem is that we have a 24VAC power input port. The generic standard calls out for EN 61000-4-5 on AC power input ports. After looking at EN 61000-4-5 it seems that it is intended for AC mains voltages, but I couldn't find anything that says a 24VAC input is exempt from this test. I am looking for outside opinions on whether this test is truly applicable. Thanks, Jennifer Banh BTW, we already tried just testing to the spec, and failed. Any suggestions on how to protect against this test would also be appreciated. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
