Re: RES: Pro-audio and ground lifting

2002-03-20 Thread CherryClough
Dear Sergio
Many thanks for replying.
I have no problems with switches such as you describe, and have used them 
myself.

It is switches that disconnect the protective earth, which I have also seen 
(plus just plain disconnecting the green/yellow wire) that I am concerned 
about.

All the very best!
Keith

In a message dated 20/03/02 17:45:50 GMT Standard Time, 
sergioro...@siemens.com.br writes:

 Subj:RES: Pro-audio and ground lifting
 Date:20/03/02 17:45:50 GMT Standard Time
 From:sergioro...@siemens.com.br (SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES)
 To:cherryclo...@aol.com, emc-p...@ieee.org
 CC:t...@cadac-sound.com
  
 keith,
  
 In pro-audio systems, normally you found a ground lift switch. This switch 
 disconnects the signal shield from the equipment ground. It doesn’t 
 disconnect the protection earth from the main supply.
  
 Regards
  
 Sérgio L. Rocha Loures
 Siemens Ltda. - Brazil
 Supply Chain - Quality and Engineering
 IC SC QE L
 Tel:  +55 41 341-5898
 Fax: +55 41 341-5058
 E-mail: sergioro...@siemens.com.br
 
 Minha opinião e não necessariamente a do meu empregador.
 
  
  -Mensagem original-
 De: cherryclo...@aol.com [mailto:cherryclo...@aol.com] 
 Enviada em: quarta-feira, 20 de março de 2002 13:59
 Para: emc-p...@ieee.org
 Cc: t...@cadac-sound.com
 Assunto: Pro-audio and ground lifting
 
 
 Dear Group 
 
 Does anyone know if it is legally permissible in the USA to remove the 
 safety grounds from Class I equipment used in pro-audio systems and 
 installations? 
 
 It has been a common practice over many many years in professional audio 
 systems and installations to 'lift the grounds' on equipment to cure hum 
 problems. 
 
 I'm comfortable with the knowledge that in Europe it is a breach of the 
 Low Voltage Directive to supply equipment that is constructed using Class 
 I methods if its protective ground conductor is not connected, or if it 
 could be 'lifted' by operation of a user-accessible switch or jumper. 
 
 I am also comfortable with the idea that in Europe if the user does not 
 connect a protective ground conductor to Class I equipment, the health and 
 safety at work directives mean that he/she is probably committing a 
 criminal act. A Health and Safety Inspector could close down his/her 
 facility if he/she discovered such an error. 
 
 My question concerns the comparable situation in the USA. 
 
 I am under the impression that my summary above for European protective 
 grounding requirements for Class I equipment also applies to the US, both 
 for the supply of the equipment and the installation of systems using it. 
 
 But I am reliably told that there are a great many pro-audio products, 
 systems, and installations in the USA where protective grounding is 
 treated as just a hum control measure and safety issues take second place. 
 
 I am also reliably told that in the US one can even find whole buildings 
 wired using two-core mains cables, without any safety ground wires to any 
 of the pro-audio equipment. 
 
 So what are your views on removing the safety grounds from Class I 
 equipment used in pro-audio systems and installations? 
 
 Can anyone defend this practice or show that it is legal in the USA? 
 
 All the very best 
 Keith Armstrong 
 
 Note: 
 Class I equipment uses basic insulation plus protective ground bonding to 
 protect against electrical hazards, and must use three-pin mains 
 connectors and three-core mains leads (for single-phase supplies). 
 
 The only alternative permitted (in Europe, anyway) for mains-powered 
 equipment is Class II - 'double insulation' . This must have no protective 
 ground conductor and must use two-pin mains connectors and two-core mains 
 leads (again, for single phase supplies). 


RES: Pro-audio and ground lifting

2002-03-20 Thread SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES
keith,

 

In pro-audio systems, normally you found a ground lift switch.
This switch disconnects the signal shield from the equipment ground. It
doesn't disconnect the protection earth from the main supply.

 

Regards

 
Sérgio L. Rocha Loures
Siemens Ltda. - Brazil
Supply Chain - Quality and Engineering
IC SC QE L
Tel:  +55 41 341-5898
Fax: +55 41 341-5058
E-mail: sergioro...@siemens.com.br

Minha opinião e não necessariamente a do meu empregador.

 
 -Mensagem original-
De: cherryclo...@aol.com [mailto:cherryclo...@aol.com] 
Enviada em: quarta-feira, 20 de março de 2002 13:59
Para: emc-p...@ieee.org
Cc: t...@cadac-sound.com
Assunto: Pro-audio and ground lifting


Dear Group 

Does anyone know if it is legally permissible in the USA to
remove the safety grounds from Class I equipment used in pro-audio
systems and installations? 

It has been a common practice over many many years in
professional audio systems and installations to 'lift the grounds' on
equipment to cure hum problems. 

I'm comfortable with the knowledge that in Europe it is a breach
of the Low Voltage Directive to supply equipment that is constructed
using Class I methods if its protective ground conductor is not
connected, or if it could be 'lifted' by operation of a user-accessible
switch or jumper. 

I am also comfortable with the idea that in Europe if the user
does not connect a protective ground conductor to Class I equipment, the
health and safety at work directives mean that he/she is probably
committing a criminal act. A Health and Safety Inspector could close
down his/her facility if he/she discovered such an error. 

My question concerns the comparable situation in the USA. 

I am under the impression that my summary above for European
protective grounding requirements for Class I equipment also applies to
the US, both for the supply of the equipment and the installation of
systems using it. 

But I am reliably told that there are a great many pro-audio
products, systems, and installations in the USA where protective
grounding is treated as just a hum control measure and safety issues
take second place. 

I am also reliably told that in the US one can even find whole
buildings wired using two-core mains cables, without any safety ground
wires to any of the pro-audio equipment. 

So what are your views on removing the safety grounds from Class
I equipment used in pro-audio systems and installations? 

Can anyone defend this practice or show that it is legal in the
USA? 

All the very best 
Keith Armstrong 

Note: 
Class I equipment uses basic insulation plus protective ground
bonding to protect against electrical hazards, and must use three-pin
mains connectors and three-core mains leads (for single-phase supplies).


The only alternative permitted (in Europe, anyway) for
mains-powered equipment is Class II - 'double insulation' . This must
have no protective ground conductor and must use two-pin mains
connectors and two-core mains leads (again, for single phase supplies).