RE: Product Safety Symbol Legalities
Joe I agree with the others who responded earlier to your question, but I would also add another: All these answers, and current/future wording of EU Directives, are tending towards the risk assessment approach to product safety, i.e. perform an identification and assessment excercise on the possible hazards and accidents that can result from the product and it's intended use, and foreseeable misuse (such as someone not understanding the caution symbol and so not looking at the instructions), and the effects of the mitigations that you put in place to reduce those effects. You need to take into account the total numbers of products in the field and the foreseeable service life thereof (the chances of one product causing an accident may be low, but if there are large numbers of products in service for long periods then the chances of one or more accidents are potentially much higher). Statitistics come into play in a big way. That should begin to tell you if you have reasonable grounds for relying on any particular, or combination of, safety measures to protect people potentially at risk from the product, or if you need to do something else. Then talk to your corporate lawyers and product liability insurers! Should you then conclude that you do have a safe product, then the steps you have taken above (and thoroughly documented!) should help you to defend against any liability claims that are made (you may still lose the case, but may well not be punished as heavily because you had done everything reasonable and practicable). Regards John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 -Original Message- From: Joe P Martin [ mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: 14 April 2004 19:47 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Product Safety Symbol Legalities Greetings, A common product safety symbol, the exclamation point within a triangle, is used to refer the user to the manual. General questions: As a manufacturer, are we covered from any liability as a result of the user not being aware of what the symbol means? Do we assume that users know to refer to the manual when they see that symbol? Are there any court cases that have set precedents on this issue or related safety marking issues? Any personal experiences? All responses are greatly appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems marti...@appliedbiosystems.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com ** Copyright ERA Technology Ltd. 2004. (www.era.co.uk). All rights reserved. The information supplied in this Commercial Communication should be treated in confidence. No liability whatsoever is accepted for any loss or damage suffered as a result of accessing this message or any attachments. ** _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com
RE: Product Safety Symbol Legalities
You are not going to get a clear answer. You liability is a probability calculation, no a yes or no answer. You can provide an attendant to personally warn users as they do the wrong thing and still have liability. If your product is attractive enough to distract someone's glance as they walk through a second story window, they have the right to sue you no matter how your product is designed. How much you are liable depends on the jury, how much money you have, your legal defense and a lot of other things unrelated to the product. Getting down to your question, I am unaware of the exclamation in a triangle label being part of any lawsuit. You will have to use judgment about your application. If you are using it to prevent electrocution, you are on pretty thin ice. If you are using it to prevent minor burns, you might be OK. What's the probability and damage from misuse? Keep in mind an auto manufacturer who lost an unbuckled seat belt suit in spite of the presence of five labels in sight of the passenger. Labels aren't much defense. As a manufacturer, are we covered from any liability as a result of the user not being aware of what the symbol means? No Do we assume that users know to refer to the manual when they see that symbol? No Are there any court cases that have set precedents on this issue or related safety marking issues? Yes, Definitive answers? No. Your lawyer can provide case law. If you have to ask, you should reconsider. Bob Johnson ITE Safety From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Joe P Martin Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:47 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Product Safety Symbol Legalities Greetings, A common product safety symbol, the exclamation point within a triangle, is used to refer the user to the manual. General questions: As a manufacturer, are we covered from any liability as a result of the user not being aware of what the symbol means? Do we assume that users know to refer to the manual when they see that symbol? Are there any court cases that have set precedents on this issue or related safety marking issues? Any personal experiences? All responses are greatly appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems marti...@appliedbiosystems.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Product Safety Symbol Legalities
Hi Joe: As a manufacturer, are we covered from any liability as a result of the user not being aware of what the symbol means? Do we assume that users know to refer to the manual when they see that symbol? Are there any court cases that have set precedents on this issue or related safety marking issues? Any personal experiences? Liability arises after someone has been injured, or after someone PERCIEVES that they have been injured. Liability is determined in a court of law, and is a function of the lawyers, the legal theories, the judge, and the jury. Liability has been levied even with specific, plain-language warnings against the action that caused the injury. Best regards, Rich This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Product Safety Symbol Legalities
Greetings, A common product safety symbol, the exclamation point within a triangle, is used to refer the user to the manual. General questions: As a manufacturer, are we covered from any liability as a result of the user not being aware of what the symbol means? Do we assume that users know to refer to the manual when they see that symbol? Are there any court cases that have set precedents on this issue or related safety marking issues? Any personal experiences? All responses are greatly appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems marti...@appliedbiosystems.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Safety Symbol / Hot surfaces
Hello David / Neil, I wasn't sure if either of you were in the UK or on the other side of the pond. In the UK I have been supplied with these labels from a company called HTE Controls. Their phone number is +44 (0) 1355 238641. They have many different labels in different sizes , printed on self adhesive plastic. I have no connection with this company other than to occasionally buy labels from them. Best regards, David Sproul, Alexander Lynn Approvals Management Services -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Neil Helsby Sent: 26 September 2002 08:34 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Hot surfaces The hot symbol is also found at ISO 7000 pattern 0535 and BS 6217 pattern 5041. We have recently introduced this symbol on some of our products. The problem with this, and other safety required symbols, is that we have been unable to locate a source that supplies these as standard off the shelf items. It has therefore been necessary to pay for artworks to be designed and this adds considerable cost to the product. Once the artwork has been paid for, the cost between printing 100 and 1000 labels s generally minimal in comparison so our batch of labels should last a long time. Does anyone know of a source of these types of labels or is this a business opening for someone? Regards, Neil Helsby ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Safety Symbol
Hello Dave, IEC 417, Symbol 5041 is for hot surfaces.. Check this link for a picture: http://w3.hike.te.chiba-u.ac.jp/iec417/html/doc/5041f.html Robert Mavis -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Cereceres, David Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 4:13 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Safety Symbol Hello Group, Does anyone know if there is a specific symbol for hot surfaces? I looked in IEC 417, but have been unable to locate anything specific. Thanks, David Cereceres Pelco --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Safety Symbol
Horizontal bar with three (vertical) wavy lines/ G -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Cereceres, David Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:13 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Safety Symbol Hello Group, Does anyone know if there is a specific symbol for hot surfaces? I looked in IEC 417, but have been unable to locate anything specific. Thanks, David Cereceres Pelco --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Safety Symbol
David, Do a search on google as follows: 417-IEC-5041 and the symbol you're looking for will appear. Regards This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: Cereceres, David [mailto:dcerece...@pelco.com] Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Safety Symbol Hello Group, Does anyone know if there is a specific symbol for hot surfaces? I looked in IEC 417, but have been unable to locate anything specific. Thanks, David Cereceres Pelco --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Safety Symbol
Probably will get a deluge of replies, but in case not, I think you are looking for symbol 5041 in IEC 60417. (Three wiggly lines [S-shaped] suspended above a horizontal line, all surrounded be the usual warning triangle.) (Also referenced in IEC 61010-1.) best regards, glyn -- TUV Rheinland of North America, Inc. Product Safety Quality Industrial Machinery Division (Chicago Office) Glyn R. Garside Senior Engineer 1945 Techny Rd, Unit 4 NORTHBROOK, IL 60062-5357, USA Tel (847)562-9888 ext 25 Cell (847)612-1574 Fax (847)562-0688 email ggars...@us.tuv.com http://www.us.tuv.com Cereceres, David dcerece...@pelco.comTo: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Safety Symbol o.ieee.org 09/25/2002 18:13 Please respond to Cereceres, David Hello Group, Does anyone know if there is a specific symbol for hot surfaces? I looked in IEC 417, but have been unable to locate anything specific. Thanks, David Cereceres Pelco --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Safety Symbol
Hello Group, Does anyone know if there is a specific symbol for hot surfaces? I looked in IEC 417, but have been unable to locate anything specific. Thanks, David Cereceres Pelco --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Safety symbol
The only one I have seen is a house with an arrow pointing in that desigates it's for indoor use. Dave Clement Motorola Inc. Global Homologation Engineering 20 Cabot Blvd. Mansfield, MA 02048 P:508-851-8259 F:508-851-8512 C:508-725-9689 mailto:dave.clem...@motorola.com mailto:dave.clem...@motorola.com -Original Message- From: Desmond Fraser [mailto:desm...@rheintech.com] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:44 PM To: Emc-Pstc (E-mail) Subject: Safety symbol Hi All; Does any know the purpose of a safety symbol depicting a house with a small window on the right side? I will be grateful if someone can provide information such as its use, safety standard, and exactly what the correct symbol should look like. Best regards, Des Fraser
Safety symbol
Hi All; Does any know the purpose of a safety symbol depicting a house with a small window on the right side? I will be grateful if someone can provide information such as its use, safety standard, and exactly what the correct symbol should look like. Best regards, Des Fraser
