Re: [Emc-users] Rotate Workpiece Coordinate System?

2012-07-04 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2012/7/3 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
 On 2 July 2012 22:45, Florian Rist fr...@fs.tum.de wrote:

 I.E. I'd like to be able to place my work-piece anywhere on the table,
 in any orientation and then somehow measure positions and orientation
 and then be able to compensate both it so that I can run a my prepared job.

 See: 
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=viewcatid=40id=20912#20912

Wow, thanks to John Thornton!

I was asked for a solution for this exact alignment issue by a client
I am trying to get a contract with.

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotate Workpiece Coordinate System?

2012-07-04 Thread Gene Heskett
On Wednesday 04 July 2012 07:37:20 Viesturs Lācis did opine:

 2012/7/3 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
  On 2 July 2012 22:45, Florian Rist fr...@fs.tum.de wrote:
  I.E. I'd like to be able to place my work-piece anywhere on the
  table, in any orientation and then somehow measure positions and
  orientation and then be able to compensate both it so that I can run
  a my prepared job.
  
  See:
  http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view
  catid=40id=20912#20912
 
 Wow, thanks to John Thornton!

I'll second that, thanks John.  I have often battled 'square to the table' 
problems when clamping down my vices, so I am sure that this will be 
useful.
 
 I was asked for a solution for this exact alignment issue by a client
 I am trying to get a contract with.


Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Plasma

2012-07-04 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2012/7/3 mark center mcen...@gmail.com:
 Vibration consideration and rigidity are usually more limiting factors
 in machining than HP.

Yes, of course. And that is why I would like to have servos being able
to get full power out of spindle, so that I can learn about the
vibrations on that machine. We have been told about these things
theoretically at school, so I want some practical experience as well.
And machine for all kinds of soft materials seems like a nice starting
point for me.

 Consider a design approach based on experience (look at what someone
 has done that works) rather than deterministic choice (formulas).

Yes, I do not intend to reinvent the wheel. Actually I do have a
little experience as well, but certainly not enough yet.

2012/7/3 Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net:

 Google end mill cutting forces loads of information including this if
 you like math :)

Thanks! Selecting right keywords is 80% of success in web search.

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Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

2012-07-04 Thread andy pugh
On 4 July 2012 15:00, Kasey Matejcek someo...@lkm.bz wrote:

 I want to be able to turn down the part then change the tool to drimal type
 cutter tool and cut a pattern into the peace with one gcode file

 Is this possible?

It is possible. It isn't especially easy. It is probably easier with
servos than with steppers though.

The solution is probably to have two separate PID controllers in the
HAL file, one taking a command from axis.3.motor-position-cmd and one
taking an input from motion.spindle-speed-out (pin names from memory,
not from the docs).

You would then use a mux2 HAL component to send one or other of the
PID outputs to the PWM generator. You could switch the mux2 on the
basis of motion.spindle-on. Then M3 / M4 would disable A-axis control.

The main complication to this simple scheme is that the A-axis PID
will try to unwind all the lathe-mode rotations when you switch to
lathe-mode.

To counteract this you would need to force the encoder.N.index-enable
pin high when the mode changes. This will take a slightly complex
array of HAL functions, an edge-detector (HAL oneshot) to set the
index, and a HAL tristate_bit to set the encoder index-enable.
You would probably (this is untested) simply setp the
tristate-bit.0.in to 1, and net the oneshot output to
tristate-bit.0.enable.

The behaviour would then be that the axis would move in A-word control
until an M3 or M4, at which point the mux would direct the speed PID
to the PWM generator. On M5 the mux would switch to the old A-axis
position control, the oneshot would trigger, loading a true to the
encoder.N.index-enable pin. Because the spindle is many turns away
from it's required position the A-axis PID controller will be maxed
out, so the spindle will do at least one turn past the index. When it
passes the index the encoder counts will go to zero, the PID will no
longer be saturated, and the spindle should return to the last
commanded angular position.

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/intro.html
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/mux2.9.html
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/oneshot.9.html
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/tristate_bit.9.html

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[Emc-users] Serial comms within a userspace component

2012-07-04 Thread Schooner
Hi
I have been playing with a C userspace component to pass values from 
Linuxcnc to an arduino for display on a pendant LCD.

The code works perfectly from a commandline program but when inserted 
into a component, it compiles and runs but each
write(fd, buff, sizeof(buff)) goes to stdout / stderr instead of the
place fd points to, which is /dev/ttyUSB0

I can connect to a socket server from within the userspace component
and pass the values indirectly, but it is bugging me to distraction that 
perfectly normal serial comms code which can be shown to work elsewhere 
will not work properly in the component.

If anyone has any ideas why this should be, I would be grateful!

regards

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Re: [Emc-users] Serial comms within a userspace component

2012-07-04 Thread Gene Heskett
On Wednesday 04 July 2012 14:32:06 Schooner did opine:

 Hi
 I have been playing with a C userspace component to pass values from
 Linuxcnc to an arduino for display on a pendant LCD.
 
 The code works perfectly from a commandline program but when inserted
 into a component, it compiles and runs but each
 write(fd, buff, sizeof(buff)) goes to stdout / stderr instead of the
 place fd points to, which is /dev/ttyUSB0
 

Basic C stuff AIRemember:

You did #include stdio.h I assume...

And what is the type of 'fd'?  studio.h should define that globally, or did 
the last time I used it. (And I am assuming you are in fact opening a path 
to it prior to the write)

I'm thinking that because of the type you used for 'fd', that it may well 
be volatile, and out of that functions 'scope' by the time you actually do 
the above write.  Some printf's to stdout as to the value of 'fd' may be 
enlightening, bearing in mind that 'fd' should be a pointer, and should 
retain its value when printf'd in the next line after the open, and should 
be identical in a printf in front of your write, both as 'fd' and as '*fd'.

OTOH its been much of a decade since I last carved any fresh C, so my 
ancient memory could well be full of it.

 I can connect to a socket server from within the userspace component
 and pass the values indirectly, but it is bugging me to distraction that
 perfectly normal serial comms code which can be shown to work elsewhere
 will not work properly in the component.
 
 If anyone has any ideas why this should be, I would be grateful!
 
 regards
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

2012-07-04 Thread Jon Elson
andy pugh wrote:
 The behaviour would then be that the axis would move in A-word control
 until an M3 or M4, at which point the mux would direct the speed PID
 to the PWM generator. On M5 the mux would switch to the old A-axis
 position control, the oneshot would trigger, loading a true to the
 encoder.N.index-enable pin. Because the spindle is many turns away
 from it's required position the A-axis PID controller will be maxed
 out, so the spindle will do at least one turn past the index. When it
 passes the index the encoder counts will go to zero, the PID will no
 longer be saturated, and the spindle should return to the last
 commanded angular position.

   
And, how to do this without causing a momentary huge following error 
that either
causes a following error abort or a servo amp trip is not clear.  I 
think it needs
some kind of gradual gain change to allow the servo to catch up 
gradually before
going to full gain.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

2012-07-04 Thread andy pugh
On 4 July 2012 21:00, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 And, how to do this without causing a momentary huge following error

Ah, yes. Good point.
Given that, I think it has got to the point where a custom HAL module
is called for which mediates the position feedback. (though another
mux to short-circuit the feedback would work, connecting
axis.M.pos-feedback to either position-command or encoder-position as
required. (possibly triggered by a timedelay component).
The spindle doesn't have an f-error problem. I guess you could just
ignore f-error on A too, and short-circuit the feedback.

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Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

2012-07-04 Thread Terry Christophersen
I dont know how this is done on newer lathes but Ive seen
older ones with an electric clutch on the spindle that engages
and a seperate servo motor that does the milling or positioning moves
then disenguages for normal lathe turing.
Could an encoder be put on a the servo(except for the index pulse)
this way the servo encoder would not have the wrap up from turning
operations as it would be disengaged most of the time?
I am sorry that this is probably not helping this person but I am
thinking about doing this to a lathe of mine and this
topic reminded me of my question

Terry  

 
- Original Message -
From: Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

andy pugh wrote:
 The behaviour would then be that the axis would move in A-word control
 until an M3 or M4, at which point the mux would direct the speed PID
 to the PWM generator. On M5 the mux would switch to the old A-axis
 position control, the oneshot would trigger, loading a true to the
 encoder.N.index-enable pin. Because the spindle is many turns away
 from it's required position the A-axis PID controller will be maxed
 out, so the spindle will do at least one turn past the index. When it
 passes the index the encoder counts will go to zero, the PID will no
 longer be saturated, and the spindle should return to the last
 commanded angular position.

  
And, how to do this without causing a momentary huge following error 
that either
causes a following error abort or a servo amp trip is not clear.  I 
think it needs
some kind of gradual gain change to allow the servo to catch up 
gradually before
going to full gain.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

2012-07-04 Thread Ralph Stirling
It is really a C axis lathe being described I believe (spindle
rotates about Z), and a C axis live tooled lathe is such a
mainstream machine in the industrial world that it seems a
shame not to have a robust, well-thought-out LinuxCNC
configuration for this application.

My thought is that it should use the C encoder all the time,
but with a velocity mode for normal turning, threading, and
CSS.  Encoder rollover would be needed, but 64 bits should
handle an awful lot of revolutions of the spindle.

-- Ralph

From: andy pugh [bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 1:15 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

On 4 July 2012 21:00, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 And, how to do this without causing a momentary huge following error

Ah, yes. Good point.
Given that, I think it has got to the point where a custom HAL module
is called for which mediates the position feedback. (though another
mux to short-circuit the feedback would work, connecting
axis.M.pos-feedback to either position-command or encoder-position as
required. (possibly triggered by a timedelay component).
The spindle doesn't have an f-error problem. I guess you could just
ignore f-error on A too, and short-circuit the feedback.

--
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto


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Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

2012-07-04 Thread andy pugh
On 4 July 2012 21:37, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote:

 My thought is that it should use the C encoder all the time,
 but with a velocity mode for normal turning, threading, and
 CSS.  Encoder rollover would be needed, but 64 bits should
 handle an awful lot of revolutions of the spindle.

Rollover is a non-issue within the lifespan of most machines (5
million years at 3000rpm and 2048 counts per rev)
There is (somewhere) a config for aligning a milling spindle for tool
change, so it's a solved problem. I just couldn't find it.

-- 
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[Emc-users] C Axis in Lathe

2012-07-04 Thread k...@gmail.com
Searched Youtube and Google for any info or examples of
the use of C axis in Lathe but found nothing.

Any one using it and how well does it work?

Thanks!
dan k
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[Emc-users] C Axis in Lathe

2012-07-04 Thread k...@gmail.com
Ah!
I should have read the latest posts!

Guess it's referred to as A axis not C ??
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Re: [Emc-users] C Axis in Lathe

2012-07-04 Thread Ralph Stirling
Google c axis lathe and you'll get plenty of examples.
The convention for identifying axes on a CNC lathe is
X perpendicular to spindle centerline, Z along spindle
centerline, so C is spindle rotation.  A-axis would be the
rotation of a live tool for drilling into the side of your
work (rotation about X).

-- Ralph

From: k...@gmail.com [kliegelmach...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:52 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] C Axis in Lathe

Ah!
I should have read the latest posts!

Guess it's referred to as A axis not C ??
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Re: [Emc-users] my issue with G38.4 again

2012-07-04 Thread John Stewart
Figured it out!

I added a little G1 X+0.02 (mm) to push the probe against the materiel before 
doing the retract; I guess that, sometimes, the touch probe is on the verge of 
being either on/off and the slightest bit of vibration will change state. 

Adding the little push made the probe routine work reliably 4 times so far.

I'll send a note in to the author.

John A. Stewart.
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Re: [Emc-users] C Axis in Lathe

2012-07-04 Thread Brian May
I use it and it works good.  It is much easier to generate the g code in cam, 
there are not a lot of lathe specific canned cycles yet.  

I have not done anything too complicate, just machined flats on the od.

Sent from my iPod

On Jul 4, 2012, at 6:49 PM, k...@gmail.com kliegelmach...@gmail.com wrote:

 Searched Youtube and Google for any info or examples of
 the use of C axis in Lathe but found nothing.
 
 Any one using it and how well does it work?
 
 Thanks!
 dan k
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Re: [Emc-users] C Axis in Lathe

2012-07-04 Thread Jack Coats
Years ago I read an article on a guy that used a small lathe to make
the hundreds of 'pull stop handles' they needed for rebuilding large
pipe organs.

... A great use of CNC work!  A simple thing, but they needed so many
that doing them by hand was problematic.

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Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

2012-07-04 Thread Jon Elson
andy pugh wrote:
 Given that, I think it has got to the point where a custom HAL module
 is called for which mediates the position feedback.
Yes, that sounds right.
 The spindle doesn't have an f-error problem. I guess you could just
 ignore f-error on A too, and short-circuit the feedback.
   
Right, going from axis to spindle shouldn't be a big problem, just 
freeze the encoder position
so it doesn't think C is moving.  But, going from spindle mode to axis 
mode is trickier,
as it has to gently engage the position servo.

When the spindle is being positioned, technically is is a C axis, as in 
rotating parallel to the
Z axis.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

2012-07-04 Thread Jon Elson
Terry Christophersen wrote:
 I dont know how this is done on newer lathes but Ive seen
 older ones with an electric clutch on the spindle that engages
 and a seperate servo motor that does the milling or positioning moves
 then disenguages for normal lathe turing.
 Could an encoder be put on a the servo(except for the index pulse)
 this way the servo encoder would not have the wrap up from turning
 operations as it would be disengaged most of the time?
 I am sorry that this is probably not helping this person but I am
 thinking about doing this to a lathe of mine and this
 topic reminded me of my question
   
If you need really rigid holding of the spindle then what you describe 
is probably the only
way to do it on a home shop budget.  If it is for very light work, then 
maybe a single
motor can do it without it being massive.  Then, it mostly becomes a 
software problem.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] A axis and spindle

2012-07-04 Thread Jon Elson
andy pugh wrote:
 On 4 July 2012 21:37, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote:

   
 My thought is that it should use the C encoder all the time,
 but with a velocity mode for normal turning, threading, and
 CSS.  Encoder rollover would be needed, but 64 bits should
 handle an awful lot of revolutions of the spindle.
 

 Rollover is a non-issue within the lifespan of most machines (5
 million years at 3000rpm and 2048 counts per rev)
 There is (somewhere) a config for aligning a milling spindle for tool
 change, so it's a solved problem. I just couldn't find it.

   
Not necessarily.  Assume 3000 RPM and a 1000 cycle/rev encoder.  Typical 
24-bit
encoder counters will roll over on a bit over a minute (16 mil/12 mil).
That gets overflowed to 32 bits, so it would take 358 minutes to overflow
the 32-bit count.  I think all the encoder counters on LinuxCNC currently
use a 32-bit count internally.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] C Axis in Lathe

2012-07-04 Thread k...@gmail.com
Wow, that's cool.but all I wanna do is index to drill
and chamfer a cross hole in a small 'hitch pin'.
Simple stuff comparatively, but a lot less work in the
lathe instead of a second operation in a mill w/ indexer

dk



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Years ago I read an article on a guy that used a small lathe to make
the hundreds of 'pull stop handles' they needed for rebuilding large
pipe organs.

... A great use of CNC work!  A simple thing, but they needed so many
that doing them by hand was problematic.
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