Re: [Emc-users] program building puzzlement

[lloyd wilson]

Thanks for the reply - I discovered that yesterday by perusing an 
include file from another C program linked with C++ -
hadn't had time to post reply.

On 02/18/2013 05:45 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:10 PM, lloyd wilson
>   wrote:
>
>> MODBUSUISRCS := emc/usr_intf/modbusui.cc \
>>   emc/usr_intf/modbus_rtu.c
> ..
>> with these entries, both source files compile as expected, but in the
>> link stage, I get errors that the functions which are located in the
>> modbus_rtu object file can't be found; it's like the linker doesn't know
>> about the .o file (which it just compiled).
> I didn't try to figure out your overall layout, but in the interest of
> getting the simple issues out of the way, are you declaring the C
> functions properly in the C++ modules? Unlike C, C++ function cpfun
> results in external symbol name decorated with typing information. For
> instance, this code:
>
> int cfun(int x){return x;}
>
> when compiled with gcc -c t.c creates an object t.o which defines
> function 'cfun'; when you compile it as C++ with 'g++ -c t.c' the
> object contains the function symbol _Z4cfuni
>
> In order to use C functions in C++ you have to declare them as extern
> "C" int cfun(int x);
>
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Re: [Emc-users] program building puzzlement

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:10 PM, lloyd wilson
 wrote:

> MODBUSUISRCS := emc/usr_intf/modbusui.cc \
>  emc/usr_intf/modbus_rtu.c
..
> with these entries, both source files compile as expected, but in the
> link stage, I get errors that the functions which are located in the
> modbus_rtu object file can't be found; it's like the linker doesn't know
> about the .o file (which it just compiled).

I didn't try to figure out your overall layout, but in the interest of
getting the simple issues out of the way, are you declaring the C
functions properly in the C++ modules? Unlike C, C++ function cpfun
results in external symbol name decorated with typing information. For
instance, this code:

int cfun(int x){return x;}

when compiled with gcc -c t.c creates an object t.o which defines
function 'cfun'; when you compile it as C++ with 'g++ -c t.c' the
object contains the function symbol _Z4cfuni

In order to use C functions in C++ you have to declare them as extern
"C" int cfun(int x);

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[Tomaz T .]

So something like this could work?:


# load a near component and attach it to a thread
loadrt near
addf near.0 servo-thread

# connect one input to the commanded spindle speed
net spindle-cmd => near.0.in1

# connect one input to the encoder-measured spindle speed
net stepgen.2.velocity-fb => near.0.in2

# connect the output to the spindle-at-speed input
net spindle-at-speed motion.spindle-at-speed <= near.0.out

# set the spindle speed inputs to agree if within 1%
setp near.0.scale 1.01




> >
>
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_pins_3
>
> stepgen has a pin velocity-fb
>
> compare velocity feedback to the commanded velocity, that gets you spindle at 
> speed.
>
> connect your spindle display to velocity-fb, that gets you a ramped display.
>
> While it is still open loop, it's reasonable to expect the spindle motor is 
> at the RPM the stepgen
> says it is.
>
> You may need to adjust the units on the commanded and stepgens velocity-fb.
> May be other little details but you get the idea.
>
> Chris M
>
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[Emc-users] I crashed my machine, now I need a new drill chuck

[Roland Jollivet]

On 30 October 2012 06:26, Sebastian Kuzminsky  wrote:

> Bone headed error...  I am doing a small production run, using three
> different drills, each mounted in its own tool holder.  I had carefully
> measured the length of each tool and recorded them all in the tool
> table.  I had run about 10 parts, everything was going great, just a few
> left to go.
>
> Then I got distracted and loaded the wrong tool...  Unlucky for me, the
> tool I loaded was much longer than the tool the machine asked for, and
> the machine happily drove a drill chuck with a #39 drill right into the
> work.
>
> The drill shattered and disappeared in a spray of shrapnel (no one was
> hit).  The jaws of the drill chuck drilled about 0.100 inches down into
> the work piece (soft aluminum, fortunately).  The Z servo finally
> signaled a following error and e-stopped the machine.  The work and the
> fixture plate absorbed all the damage, the table of the machine is still
> unmarked.  So it could have been worse.
>
> But the chuck is completely ruined.  It used to be a pretty nice keyless
> chuck, 1/32" to 1/2" gripping range, J6 taper.  Now it's garbage: the
> body (what I would normally turn to tighten and loosen the jaws) turns
> very reluctantly, and the jaws don't move at all when i turn it...
>
> I got it off the J6 tool holder, and the J6 taper on the tool holder has
> ~0.001 inches of runout now (measured with a DTI on the taper, while
> mounted in the spindle and turning slowly).  I don't know what the
> runout was before the crash, and I don't know what's acceptable.  Does
> this seem reasonable, or should I scrap the tool holder too and look for
> another?  My spindle has a QC-30 taper, which is somewhat unusual - tool
> holders like this can be hard to come by.
>
> In either case I need a new drill chuck.
>
> The wrecked chuck is of the keyless variety, and while that's convenient
> I'm considering replacing it with a keyed chuck because they tend to be
> shorter, and my quill is a bit limited in Z travel. Why do CNC machines
> usually have keyless chucks?
>
> What do you all recommend for a good value on a drill chuck, about 1/32"
> to 1/2", J6 taper?
>
> Keyed or keyless?
>
> Help me emc-users, you're my only hope!
>
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky
>
>
>
And old thread, but is your spindle like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIDGEPORT-CNC-EZ-TRAK-ERICKSON-QC30-30-TAPER-SPINDLE-/150283516254

If so, the taper should be the same as most '30' tapers, ie 7/24. If it is
you should be able to adapt an ISO30 or BT30.

Regards
Roland
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[Chris Morley]

> Now there is one more thing I would need to add to my spindle section in hal, 
> and that is "Spindle at speed" future (machine waits for spindle to reach 
> rpm's).
> I found this guide for implementing this:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html (section 5 & 6.2)
> 
> As I have a bit different case (using sptepgen), I would need some help what 
> and where to use it.
> 
> Here is my section for running spindle:
> 

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_pins_3

stepgen has a pin velocity-fb

compare velocity feedback to the commanded velocity, that gets you spindle at 
speed.

connect your spindle display to velocity-fb, that gets you a ramped display.

While it is still open loop, it's reasonable to expect the spindle motor is at 
the RPM the stepgen
says it is.

You may need to adjust the units on the commanded and stepgens velocity-fb.
May be other little details but you get the idea.

Chris M
  
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 18 February 2013 14:37:33 Tomaz T. did opine:

> I'm using Meter for visual presentation and it now well calibrated (with
> tacho) so it is showing accurate rpm-s. What is happening is that when
> there comes ie. M3 S15000 gauge shoots instantly to that value, so it
> doesn't follow acceleration that I programmed. So probably spindle-cmd
> is not a "realtime" signal to use for presentation, also for
> determination when spindle reaches desired speed and also used for
> triggering motion.spindle-at-speed
> 
You could put a limit2 module in series with the pyvcp meter only, to slow 
it down to an approximation of the spindles ballistics, but without the 
encoder to actually report the speed, it will be a SWAG.

I actually have such a module in use here, but set quite a bit faster, 
basically to de-noise the display else the needle jitters anywhere up to 50 
rpm from actual, very nervous.  My encoder is only a 50 cycle + index, no 
room for anything more.

[...]

Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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My views 

BOFH excuse #269:

Melting hard drives
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harder and harder to find any...

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 18 February 2013 14:14:35 John Stewart did opine:

> Gene;
> 
> I purchased a tachometer from that bay store, and plotted the effects of
> the pwmgen input value.
> 
> I was very surprised to find the results linear; I wrote up my stuff on
> my blog  - http://cnc-for-model-engineers.blogspot.com
> 
> It was linear, and when I request a spindle speed, it usually comes out
> within 5%, many times within less than 1% now that it is calibrated
> properly.
> 
> I generally put a 2 second wait into my GCODE, because it takes a bit
> less than that to max the spindle from full stop.
> 
> (I'd give you a direct link, etc, but I can't get to the web this week
> very well. (i.e., it times out) but email works.)
> 
> JohnS.
> Stuck in Turks and Cacos,
> wishing I was in my workshop!
 
Apparently, in the 250 watt motor controller (no schematics are available) 
in the OEM mini-lathe, the pot arm connection goes straight to the feedback 
summing junction in the circuit, presumably using the 10k pot as a build-
out resistor, a voltage to current converter IOW.

With the LF357's output impedance likely under 10 ohms since its a gain of 
1 voltage follower, it overpowers the sum junction and becomes almost an 
on-off switch that the PID module cannot linearize.  Since the pot I took 
out was 10k, I took a SWAG and added a 10k to the C6 by cutting the trace 
to the output connector from the LF357 and cleaned up the trace enough to 
solder the 10k to it.  First 10k value worked so well I never tried 
anything different.  From the gui, clicking the CW start button on causes 
the motor to creep & jerk along slowly at about 1 rpm, and any following 
clicks on the plus or minus buttons run it up or down by 100 rpms/click.  
Above 200 revs its extremely stiff, a pony brake made of an old leather 
belt can pull it down to perhaps 190 rpm by the time I can smell hot 
leather from the belt.

I don't think Arturo ever dreamed his C6 would be used inside the feedback 
loop of a PID controller though. :(

Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] Oversized balls

[Chuck]

A MFG of CNC Routers no longer in business use to buy cheap ball screws and re 
load with over size balls to make them appear more accurate.  And at first they 
were, but they would in short order destroy the ballscrew.  





 From: ed 
To: st...@pilotltd.net; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
 
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Oversized balls
 
Steve Blackmore wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 13:34:52 +, you wrote:
>
>  
>> Has anyone tried reducing the backlash in a ballnut by fitting oversized 
>> balls?
>> If so, how did it turn out?
>>    
>
> Andy - commercially they don't replace every ball with oversize ones.
>  
Some do, some don't.


> They replace every "n" th ball with a slightly oversize one.

If the rebuilder uses two different sizes then the smaller ones 
alternate with the larger, that way the smaller counter rotate to keep 
down friction. The load capacity decreases. Any other ratio defeats the 
purpose.



>  It's a bit
> of a black art and the guys sort of do it by feel.

Feel is the key, that and having a varied selection of sizes to try.


>  I've seen a screw
> that was rebuilt by some company in the midlands and it was superb, and
> much cheaper than a replacement, but still out of my pocket. 
>
> I did have a go doing all the linear slides on an Isel router, I
> replaced every 5th ball with oversize ones and replaced all the other
> balls with correctly sized ones and it worked great.

Only having 1 of 5 oversize either loses rigidity with the correct size 
or greatly increases the strain on the individual balls and the contact 
points of the slide if you go oversize and go by feel



>  That had had a hard
> life cutting ceramic and the dust had got in despite the fact the ways
> are covered and the inside was air pressurized in an attempt to keep the
> dust out. 
>
> Steve Blackmore
> --
>  




Ed.


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[Tomaz T .]

I'm using Meter for visual presentation and it now well calibrated (with tacho) 
so it is showing accurate rpm-s.
What is happening is that when there comes ie. M3 S15000 gauge shoots instantly 
to that value, so it doesn't follow acceleration that I programmed. So probably 
spindle-cmd is not a "realtime" signal to use for presentation, also for 
determination when spindle reaches desired speed and also used for triggering 
motion.spindle-at-speed


> >
> I am using a pwmgen to run the mills spindle, and like you, no feedback.
> So its impossible to know if the spindle is 'at speed' so that usually gets
> fudged true. I have a bar graphic that does show the requested speed.
>
> >From that custom_postgui.hal;
> =
> # Include your customized HAL commands here
> # The commands in this file are run after the AXIS GUI (including PyVCP
> panel) starts
>
> #  Setup of spindle speed display using pyvcp -START 
> #  Use COMMANDED spindle velocity from EMC because no spindle encoder
> was specified
> #  COMANDED velocity is signed so we use absolute component (abs.0) to
> remove sign
>
> net spindle-cmd => abs.0.in
> net absolute-spindle-vel <= abs.0.out => pyvcp.spindle-speed
>
> #  force spindle at speed indicator true because we have no feedback
> 
>
> net spindle-at-speed => pyvcp.spindle-at-speed-led
> sets spindle-at-speed true
> ==
>
  
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Re: [Emc-users] Trim Posts

[John Kasunich]

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013, at 10:06 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> Another thing I dislike about the mailing list is all the ads that get 
> tacked onto each message like this:

If you are trimming your posts, you are also trimming the ads.
It took me about three seconds to click my mouse near the top
of this message (after the part I wanted to keep), drag it
to the bottom, and hit the delete key.

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  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] Cincinnati Arrow 500 retrofit...

[Pete Matos]

John,
   Yes exactly LOLthanks man.peace

Pete


On Monday, February 18, 2013, Jon Elson  wrote:
> Pete Matos wrote:
>>   Besides I like the idea of
>> having the encoder on the spindle and not on the motor somehow it just
>> seems more precise to me that way.
> If there is gearing between motor and spindle, then this eliminates gear
> backlash and
> makes sure the encoder gets one pulse/rev no matter what gear the head
> is in.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[John Stewart]

Gene;

I purchased a tachometer from that bay store, and plotted the effects of the 
pwmgen input value. 

I was very surprised to find the results linear; I wrote up my stuff on my blog 
 - http://cnc-for-model-engineers.blogspot.com

It was linear, and when I request a spindle speed, it usually comes out within 
5%, many times within less than 1% now that it is calibrated properly.

I generally put a 2 second wait into my GCODE, because it takes a bit less than 
that to max the spindle from full stop.

(I'd give you a direct link, etc, but I can't get to the web this week very 
well. (i.e., it times out) but email works.)

JohnS.
Stuck in Turks and Cacos, 
wishing I was in my workshop!





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Re: [Emc-users] Cincinnati Arrow 500 retrofit...

[Jon Elson]

Pete Matos wrote:
>   Besides I like the idea of
> having the encoder on the spindle and not on the motor somehow it just
> seems more precise to me that way.
If there is gearing between motor and spindle, then this eliminates gear 
backlash and
makes sure the encoder gets one pulse/rev no matter what gear the head 
is in.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Trim Posts

[Jon Elson]

John Thornton wrote:
> Another thing I dislike about the mailing list is all the ads that get 
> tacked onto each message like this:
>   
Yes, but that ad supports SourceForge.  We are using the service for free.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 18 February 2013 11:13:24 Tomaz T. did opine:

> Now there is one more thing I would need to add to my spindle section in
> hal, and that is "Spindle at speed" future (machine waits for spindle
> to reach rpm's). I found this guide for implementing this:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html (section 5 & 6.2)
> 
> As I have a bit different case (using sptepgen), I would need some help
> what and where to use it.
> 
> Here is my section for running spindle:
> 
> loadrt scale count=1
> setp scale.0.in 0
> setp scale.0.gain 0.14
> setp scale.0.offset 0
> addf scale.0 servo-thread
> 
> setp stepgen.2.position-scale 1
> setp stepgen.2.maxvel 18000
> setp stepgen.2.steplen 1
> setp stepgen.2.stepspace 0
> setp stepgen.2.dirhold 2
> setp stepgen.2.dirsetup 2
> setp stepgen.2.maxaccel 100
> 
> #   Enable
> net spindle-enable <= motion.spindle-on => stepgen.2.enable
> 
> #   Connect spindle speed to scaler
> net spindle-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => scale.0.in 
> 
> #   Connect scaler output to stepgen velocity
> net spindle-freq <= scale.0.out => stepgen.2.velocity-cmd 
> 
> #   Connect output to the pin for the analog voltage of C6 board
> net spindle-out <= stepgen.2.step => parport.0.pin-14-out 
> 
> #   Control of spindle on/off over the relay
> net spindle-fwd motion.spindle-forward => parport.0.pin-16-out
> 
I am using a pwmgen to run the mills spindle, and like you, no feedback.  
So its impossible to know if the spindle is 'at speed' so that usually gets 
fudged true.  I have a bar graphic that does show the requested speed.

>From that custom_postgui.hal;
=
# Include your customized HAL commands here
# The commands in this file are run after the AXIS GUI (including PyVCP 
panel) starts

#  Setup of spindle speed display using pyvcp -START 
#  Use COMMANDED spindle velocity from EMC because no spindle encoder 
was specified
#  COMANDED velocity is signed so we use absolute component (abs.0) to 
remove sign

net spindle-cmd => abs.0.in
net absolute-spindle-vel <= abs.0.out => pyvcp.spindle-speed

#  force spindle at speed indicator true because we have no feedback 


net spindle-at-speed => pyvcp.spindle-at-speed-led
sets spindle-at-speed true
== 

> 
> Do I need to add another function for spindle-ramp or can I use
> stepgen.2.maxaccel, where I already defined acceleration? If so, which
> lines and connections I still need to use in my case then?
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Re: [Emc-users] Cincinnati Arrow 500 retrofit...

[Pete Matos]

Sam,
 That's what I figured my friend thanks for sharing that information.
It seems like if it worked for you and also for someone else's MAZAK
machine then changes are it will work for me...  Besides I like the idea of
having the encoder on the spindle and not on the motor somehow it just
seems more precise to me that way. I have plenty of room inside that
massive head casting to make something like that and it sounds like it
should take care of my rigid tapping as well as my spindle alignment
concerns all at once. We are getting this puzzle sorted out one step at a
timepeace

Pete


On Monday, February 18, 2013, sam sokolik  wrote:
> 1:1 - must be an optical illusion...  We did have one of the encoders go
> bad - the shaft to bearing seemed to be glued and just fell apart.  We
> machined the housing of the encoder to add a bearing right at the timing
> pully.  The spindle maxes out at 3000rpm.  (old machine)
>
> sam
> On 2/18/2013 5:40 AM, Pete Matos wrote:
>> Sam,
>>  Hey man thanks for the pictures and videos.  That setup doesn't look
>> 1-1 is it just an optical illusion or am I missing something?  It sure
>> looks well done this.   What is the spindle Max RPM and does it  take the
>> spindle speeds okay?   Apparently it does or you'd have r and r'd it by
now
>> I am guessing.  Perhaps this is my answer as wellpeace
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 18, 2013, sam sokolik  wrote:
>>> that is what we did -
>>>
>>> K&T spindle encoder with collet unclamp/clamp
>>>
>>> it works well..  It was about the only place we could fit the encoder
>>> without major hacking..
>>>
>>>
>>
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/spindletiminggear.JPG
>>> sam
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/17/2013 10:25 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
 On Sun, Feb 17, 2013, at 10:57 PM, Pete Matos wrote:

> The third option I could go with would be to buy two timing pulleys of
> large diameter and machine one to fit over the approx 3" diameter
>> spindle
> body and another of the same diameter that would mount off to the side
>> of
> the spindle body and install an encoder wheel on it being a 1-1 belt
>> ratio
> that would allow me to track speed as well as use the index pulse on
the
> encoder to index for toolchange.
 The 1:1 pulley idea is what was done on the Mazak at the EMC workshop.
 Worked quite well.  Since the belt is only driving an encoder, it
doesn't
 need to be very big.  1/4" wide XL belt would be fine.  Maybe even an
>> MXL.
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Trim Posts

[John Thornton]

No, the forum is like the IRC and a separate communications medium that 
many prefer.

You can't miss it if you tried when you visit linuxcnc.org...

John

On 2/18/2013 8:23 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 18.02.13 06:55, John Thornton wrote the following, but with a 37 line
> fullquote following the 2 line reply. Here is how it's squeezed by t-prot:
>> I use the delete key... and that is why I prefer the forum you don't
>> have to wade through all the repeat posts.
>>
>> On 2/16/2013 6:05 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> [---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 27 lines snipped |=---]
>>> I wouldn't hold my breath while hoping to change the habits of a list.
>>> (Even though everyone would benefit. ;-)
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>> ¹ t-prot filters from stdin to stdout, so works in any pipeline.
>>> It should then be compatible with a number of MUAs, I figure.
> T-prot has shrunk the fullquote by 27 lines, making a good¹ attempt to do
> what the poster could have done. If there were any reason to refer back
> to the full quoted text, Esc-0 expands it in the display.
>
> Is the forum a GUI view of the mailing list then? If so, can it really
> automatically edit out excessive quoted text? Sounds equally useful.
>
> Erik
>
> ¹ User tunable too.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Trim Posts

[John Thornton]

Another thing I dislike about the mailing list is all the ads that get 
tacked onto each message like this:

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On 2/18/2013 8:23 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 18.02.13 06:55, John Thornton wrote the following, but with a 37 line
> fullquote following the 2 line reply. Here is how it's squeezed by t-prot:
>> I use the delete key... and that is why I prefer the forum you don't
>> have to wade through all the repeat posts.
>>
>> On 2/16/2013 6:05 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> [---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 27 lines snipped |=---]
>>> I wouldn't hold my breath while hoping to change the habits of a list.
>>> (Even though everyone would benefit. ;-)
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>> ¹ t-prot filters from stdin to stdout, so works in any pipeline.
>>> It should then be compatible with a number of MUAs, I figure.
> T-prot has shrunk the fullquote by 27 lines, making a good¹ attempt to do
> what the poster could have done. If there were any reason to refer back
> to the full quoted text, Esc-0 expands it in the display.
>
> Is the forum a GUI view of the mailing list then? If so, can it really
> automatically edit out excessive quoted text? Sounds equally useful.
>
> Erik
>
> ¹ User tunable too.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[Tomaz T .]

Now there is one more thing I would need to add to my spindle section in hal, 
and that is "Spindle at speed" future (machine waits for spindle to reach 
rpm's).
I found this guide for implementing this:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html (section 5 & 6.2)

As I have a bit different case (using sptepgen), I would need some help what 
and where to use it.

Here is my section for running spindle:

loadrt scale count=1
setp scale.0.in 0
setp scale.0.gain 0.14
setp scale.0.offset 0
addf scale.0 servo-thread

setp stepgen.2.position-scale 1
setp stepgen.2.maxvel 18000
setp stepgen.2.steplen 1
setp stepgen.2.stepspace 0
setp stepgen.2.dirhold 2
setp stepgen.2.dirsetup 2
setp stepgen.2.maxaccel 100

#   Enable
net spindle-enable <= motion.spindle-on => stepgen.2.enable

#   Connect spindle speed to scaler
net spindle-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => scale.0.in 

#   Connect scaler output to stepgen velocity
net spindle-freq <= scale.0.out => stepgen.2.velocity-cmd 

#   Connect output to the pin for the analog voltage of C6 board
net spindle-out <= stepgen.2.step => parport.0.pin-14-out 

#   Control of spindle on/off over the relay
net spindle-fwd motion.spindle-forward => parport.0.pin-16-out



Do I need to add another function for spindle-ramp or can I use 
stepgen.2.maxaccel, where I already defined acceleration? If so, which lines 
and connections I still need to use in my case then?
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 18 February 2013 09:45:38 Tomaz T. did opine:

> > Thanks Andy, but that will probably need sent through a scale module
> > to calibrate, and lacking the feedback path, will at best be a SWAG
> > that will not show slowing vs loading. Adequate for surface speed
> > calcs though.
> 
> That's correct, I calibrated RPM's with right gain value for scale
> (helped with tachometer):
> 
> loadrt scale count=1
> setp scale.0.in 0
> setp scale.0.gain 0.14
> setp scale.0.offset 0
> addf scale.0 servo-thread
> 
> > His use of the C6 brings up a question in my mind as to "how is the
> > 0-10 volts from the C6 actually coupled into the VFD?"
> 
> My VFD has 0-10V reference input, on which I connected C6 output.

, just checking.  That should have the proper buildout to make the 
input response to output rpms pretty linear then.

[...]

Cheers, Gene
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  you will be.. <=:]
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rpm display

[Tomaz T .]

>
> Thanks Andy, but that will probably need sent through a scale module to
> calibrate, and lacking the feedback path, will at best be a SWAG that will
> not show slowing vs loading. Adequate for surface speed calcs though.
>
That's correct, I calibrated RPM's with right gain value for scale (helped with 
tachometer):

loadrt scale count=1
setp scale.0.in 0
setp scale.0.gain 0.14
setp scale.0.offset 0
addf scale.0 servo-thread

>
> His use of the C6 brings up a question in my mind as to "how is the 0-10
> volts from the C6 actually coupled into the VFD?"


My VFD has 0-10V reference input, on which I connected C6 output.


> In my lathes lashup I found that a direct connection to the pot arm
> terminal as the C6 docs show, gave an extremely non-linear control that no
> amount of faffing about with pid terms made satisfactory, but it was made
> quite linear, enough that a pid module could cope with it, by inserting a
> 10k resistor between the C6's output and the pot arm terminal of the motor
> controller. The OP might want to test that as it might improve the
> accuracy of the tach dials SWAG quite a bit. The voltage drop across that
> 10k was, in my case, only a millivolt or so, but it made a huge difference
> in the control characteristics.
>
> I might also add that the C6, if part of a feedback loop, is call a
> surveyor and set stakes slow device, so those 2 10 uf electrolytic can caps
> were replaced with .1 uf mylars in mine. One is in the analog out,
> adjacent to the terminals, the other is in the charge pump detector that
> runs the relays, time lag there is a huge problem for the motor controller
> in a mini-lathe. It sees any speed sig as an error if the relay is slow.
> His vfd may, or may not have similar don't even power up if the speed isn't
> zero logic.
>
> Just a thought. BTDT :)
>
> Cheers, Gene
  
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Re: [Emc-users] Trim Posts

[Erik Christiansen]

On 18.02.13 06:55, John Thornton wrote the following, but with a 37 line
fullquote following the 2 line reply. Here is how it's squeezed by t-prot: 
> 
> I use the delete key... and that is why I prefer the forum you don't
> have to wade through all the repeat posts.
> 
> On 2/16/2013 6:05 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
[---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 27 lines snipped |=---]
> >
> > I wouldn't hold my breath while hoping to change the habits of a list.
> > (Even though everyone would benefit. ;-)
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > ¹ t-prot filters from stdin to stdout, so works in any pipeline.
> >It should then be compatible with a number of MUAs, I figure.

T-prot has shrunk the fullquote by 27 lines, making a good¹ attempt to do
what the poster could have done. If there were any reason to refer back
to the full quoted text, Esc-0 expands it in the display.

Is the forum a GUI view of the mailing list then? If so, can it really
automatically edit out excessive quoted text? Sounds equally useful.

Erik

¹ User tunable too.

-- 
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has printed gibberish all over it and put your name at the top.   
- Ohio U. English professor


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Re: [Emc-users] Cincinnati Arrow 500 retrofit...

[sam sokolik]

1:1 - must be an optical illusion...  We did have one of the encoders go 
bad - the shaft to bearing seemed to be glued and just fell apart.  We 
machined the housing of the encoder to add a bearing right at the timing 
pully.  The spindle maxes out at 3000rpm.  (old machine)

sam
On 2/18/2013 5:40 AM, Pete Matos wrote:
> Sam,
>  Hey man thanks for the pictures and videos.  That setup doesn't look
> 1-1 is it just an optical illusion or am I missing something?  It sure
> looks well done this.   What is the spindle Max RPM and does it  take the
> spindle speeds okay?   Apparently it does or you'd have r and r'd it by now
> I am guessing.  Perhaps this is my answer as wellpeace
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 18, 2013, sam sokolik  wrote:
>> that is what we did -
>>
>> K&T spindle encoder with collet unclamp/clamp
>>
>> it works well..  It was about the only place we could fit the encoder
>> without major hacking..
>>
>>
> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/spindletiminggear.JPG
>> sam
>>
>>
>> On 02/17/2013 10:25 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
>>> On Sun, Feb 17, 2013, at 10:57 PM, Pete Matos wrote:
>>>
 The third option I could go with would be to buy two timing pulleys of
 large diameter and machine one to fit over the approx 3" diameter
> spindle
 body and another of the same diameter that would mount off to the side
> of
 the spindle body and install an encoder wheel on it being a 1-1 belt
> ratio
 that would allow me to track speed as well as use the index pulse on the
 encoder to index for toolchange.
>>> The 1:1 pulley idea is what was done on the Mazak at the EMC workshop.
>>> Worked quite well.  Since the belt is only driving an encoder, it doesn't
>>> need to be very big.  1/4" wide XL belt would be fine.  Maybe even an
> MXL.
>>
>>
> --
>> The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel - in partnership with Geeknet,
>> is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly
> thought
>> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials, tech docs,
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>> recent posts - join the conversation now.
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Re: [Emc-users] Trim Posts

[John Thornton]

I use the delete key... and that is why I prefer the forum you don't 
have to wade through all the repeat posts.

On 2/16/2013 6:05 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 16.02.13 11:32, Marshland Engineering wrote:
>> Hi Chaps. Could you please trim your posts. They are getting quite long at 
>> this point.
> Fullquoting does give all of the list recipients a lot of repeated words
> to wade through, and can lead to planet-wide cursing. But hobby lists
> are not renowned for making the effort to trim the bits not directly
> being replied to. So it's probably worthwhile for recipients to also see
> what can be done to bury some of the needlessly repeated verbiage.
>
> One tool I use is:
>
> $ apt-cache search t-prot
> t-prot - display filter for RFC822 messages
>
> It takes a bunch of options, to control what it compresses. I use it as
> the display_filter in mutt¹. As an example, it compressed a TOFU post of
> 4 lines of reply, followed by "- Original Message -", then 7
> times as much text, to just the reply, followed by:
>
> - Original Message -
> [---=| TOFU protection by t-prot: 28 lines snipped |=---]
>
> A couple of mutt macros allow me to activate and deactivate the
> compression while viewing a post, but it's rarely needed.
>
> I will admit that otherwise reader-friendly bottom posts are not
> improved by fullquoting, and my current t-prot settings don't handle
> that well. I may have a go at optimising the settings.
>
> I wouldn't hold my breath while hoping to change the habits of a list.
> (Even though everyone would benefit. ;-)
>
> Erik
>
> ¹ t-prot filters from stdin to stdout, so works in any pipeline.
>It should then be compatible with a number of MUAs, I figure.
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Cincinnati Arrow 500 retrofit...

[Pete Matos]

Sam,
Hey man thanks for the pictures and videos.  That setup doesn't look
1-1 is it just an optical illusion or am I missing something?  It sure
looks well done this.   What is the spindle Max RPM and does it  take the
spindle speeds okay?   Apparently it does or you'd have r and r'd it by now
I am guessing.  Perhaps this is my answer as wellpeace

Pete



On Monday, February 18, 2013, sam sokolik  wrote:
> that is what we did -
>
> K&T spindle encoder with collet unclamp/clamp
>
> it works well..  It was about the only place we could fit the encoder
> without major hacking..
>
>
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/spindletiminggear.JPG
>
> sam
>
>
> On 02/17/2013 10:25 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 17, 2013, at 10:57 PM, Pete Matos wrote:
>>
>>> The third option I could go with would be to buy two timing pulleys of
>>> large diameter and machine one to fit over the approx 3" diameter
spindle
>>> body and another of the same diameter that would mount off to the side
of
>>> the spindle body and install an encoder wheel on it being a 1-1 belt
ratio
>>> that would allow me to track speed as well as use the index pulse on the
>>> encoder to index for toolchange.
>> The 1:1 pulley idea is what was done on the Mazak at the EMC workshop.
>> Worked quite well.  Since the belt is only driving an encoder, it doesn't
>> need to be very big.  1/4" wide XL belt would be fine.  Maybe even an
MXL.
>>
>
>
>
--
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> is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly
thought
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials, tech docs,
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> recent posts - join the conversation now.
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