[Emc-users] Converting a Proto-Trak 15020
When I asked about this before, I had hoped someone would have seen one of these before. Since that didn't happen, I opened it up and took some pictures. This is a Bridgeport mill with a 2-axis CNC controller and a 3-axis DRO, owned by a member of Milwaukeemakerspace.org The front panel looks like this: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/front-panel.JPG All program entry is through this control panel. There's no obvious way to connect it to a computer. Label on the back panel: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/back-panel.JPG The connectors labeled X, Y, and Z are for the DRO. [Note the connector for the cassette-tape interface, which we don't have] Label on the power supply: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/power-supply.JPG Note the date: 9/89 (~25 years old) The servos and encoders plug into this box, and there's a cable from here to the control box. In addition to the power supply, this box contains two boards labeled X and Y, I assume these are servo amps: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/servo-board1.JPG The big thing in the middle is a heat sink, with power transistors on both sides of it. The data connection is on the other side, through a hole in the plate it's mounted to. Visible chips include: TSC426CPA dual power mosfet driver TSC427CPA dual power mosfet driver HP 2601 line receiver optocoupler HP 2531 optocoupler Another view of the board: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/servo-board2.JPG Here are two views of the servo encoders: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/encoder1.JPG The chip is a DS8830N dual differential line driver http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/encoder2.JPG The chip is a HEDS9000 optical incremental encoder Here's the label on one of the servos: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/label1.JPG http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/label2.JPG Unfortunately it's very hard to read, and it appears that the vital info was not filled in. Here's what I think it says: DC MOTOR 60V ARPM DUTY CUST P/N 14969 REV D I G P/N 4020D-143 S N 4320 ASSEMBLED IN MEXICO BY INDIANA GENERAL HPL 730-352 Finally, here are the two logic boards inside the control box: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/logic-board1.JPG http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/logic-board2.JPG (I just realised these pics are upside down :-) Each board has a MC6809 CPU and a whole bunch of 74LS-series logic chips. I think the chips in the yellow packages are resistor networks. Also visible on the 2nd board are: Intersil ICL232CPE dual line driver/receiver MC6850P UART MC1411P (7 darlington drivers) And some other stuff I couldn't identify. The owner says the machine is usable, but one axis stops working occasionally (I don't know which one). He'd like to get it working reliably with a way to input programs from a computer, and add a Z axis servo. Questions: Are these servos likely to be usable? Are the servo amps likely to be usable, and if so, what kind of input might they be expecting? [Do servo amps want step and direction inputs, or something else?] Do servo systems like this use a combination of data from the DRO and the servo encoders, or is the DRO separate? If you wanted to modernize this machine and add a 3rd axis, how would you go about it? We've gotten some interesting but questionable suggestions from members who were born around the time this machine was made... Some people assume it must use Gcode internally, and there must be a way to load Gcode into it from a computer. I think both are unlikely, although I suppose it's possible. The connector between the power box and the control box looks like a serial port, but I doubt it. The idea of somehow loading data through the cassette tape interface seems unlikely to be worthwhile, despite one member's insistance that it would be a reasonable thing to do. In any case, that wouldn't get us a 3rd axis, nor would it explain why one axis occasionally stops working. Several people have suggested replacing the servos with big steppers, on the theory that stepper drivers will be cheaper than servo drivers. I don't know if that's a reasonable thing to do or not. One member works for a company that's about to throw away a somewhat newer conversion kit (perhaps only 15 years old instead of 25), and he's asked them to consider donating it to us instead. That's working it's way through their bureaucracy, I'll believe it when I see it. Any other suggestions or comments? -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may
Re: [Emc-users] Converting a Proto-Trak 15020
On 8 May 2013 07:05, Ron Bean bucketwo...@rbean.users.panix.com wrote: Are the servo amps likely to be usable, and if so, what kind of input might they be expecting It looks like a brushed DC servo machine. The amps are probably usable, unless they are the part that keep failing. The amps _probably_ take an analogue voltage signal from the controller. A rough wiring diagram would help. An oscilloscope on the control wiring when running a program would show what the protocol was. I think it is unlikely to be PWM, it will definitely not be step and direction. I see 5 large wires to the servo amps, which is one more than I expected I also don't see any control signal wiring. If they are analogue-control amps and brushed DC servos then it is a very simple conversion, and will require only a PC, LinuxCNC and an interface board. Either http://www.pico-systems.com/PPMC.html Or the 5i25 / 7i77 plug-and-go kit from: www.mesanet.com or http://www.vitalsystem.com/web/motion/motionLite.php There are other options too. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Creep in X axis
Peter, Thanks for the info. It might just be the problem. I am waiting to get access to the machine and then I will test all the advise I received here. I will give feedback on my findings. On 2013/05/07 04:11 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: On Tue, 7 May 2013, Roland Jollivet wrote: Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 15:41:39 +0200 From: Roland Jollivet roland.jolli...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Creep in X axis On 7 May 2013 07:17, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: New machine Stuart. It is a custom machine that processes structural beams. the machine is 30m long with 5 axis and many pneumatic controls. The x axis is the material that is moved and not the machine. Hi Marius Have you tried doing a very slow movement, like at 50mm/min or even slower. Place a ruler on the table and compare the DRO to physical movement. Check again at the halfway mark, then again at the end. You can then determine whether the error is at start, or at end, or in scaling. Also, if the output, possibly, from the encoder is not exactly 50/50, it could accumulate an error at anything faster than slow stepping. And maybe this is not applicable, but is the index pulse mathematically, or logically involved in the distance calculation. It could be being subtracted? in the computation of position. Regards Roland -- If the drives encoder output cable was wired wrong so that index and one of the A, /A, B, /B lines were swapped, It might cause strange behaviour like this. Also with a 3500 count/mm scale and 2 mm/m the count rate is 1.16 MHz. Can the drive actually generate good quadrature at that rate? If the Drive has quadrature output hardware hardware or a FPGA this should be easy, but if this is being done by a DSP, its quadrature is probably pretty lumpy at this rate. This should be testable by doing a motion at say 1/2 the maximum speed. If the error goes away, you might try lowering the drives quadrature output resolution. Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Regards / Groete Marius D. Liebenberg MasterCut cc Cel: +27 82 698 3251 Tel: +27 12 743 6064 Fax: +27 86 551 8029 Skype: marius_d.liebenberg Skype Me^(TM)! skype:marius_d.liebenberg?call Get Skype http://www.skype.com/go/download and call me for free. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 130507-2, 2013/05/08 Tested on: 2013/05/08 01:07:44 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2013 AVAST Software. http://www.avast.com -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Converting a Proto-Trak 15020
1. Does this machine have Trak sensors? These are devices that ride along the table (X) and saddle area (Y) and have cables that attach to the system. These are electronic Trav-a-dials. 2. These systems were very popular back in that time (late 80's early 90's). The motors are brushed DC servos. The amplifiers probably take an analog control voltage proportional to the desired axis velocity. This could be +/-10V, +/-5V, or a single 0-5V or 0-10V signal combined with a direction bit. 3. There's two ways to go I think: A. See if you can get the old motors and amps to work. If so, and you are inclined towards a science project, use one of the systems Andy described in his reply. B. My best advise would be to see if you can adapt a standard NEMA 34 (or 42) stepper motor to the mounting scheme on your machine. If so, build a new system and eBay the old one. I recommend this course of action due to my concern that eventually brush wear will kill the existing motors, and you'll be back in this same position too soon. 4. To do the Z axis, you need a quill drive mechanism. Jon Elson has (I think) pictures of his that he made from scratch on his web site. If money is no object (!), Elrod Machine has a kit: http://www.elrodmachine.com/Z%20Axis%20CNC%20Quill%20kit.htm Or you can CNC the knee, but this is tougher due to the power required. Thanks, Matt On Wed, 8 May 2013 02:05:05 -0400 Ron Bean bucketwo...@rbean.users.panix.com wrote: When I asked about this before, I had hoped someone would have seen one of these before. Since that didn't happen, I opened it up and took some pictures. This is a Bridgeport mill with a 2-axis CNC controller and a 3-axis DRO, owned by a member of Milwaukeemakerspace.org The front panel looks like this: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/front-panel.JPG All program entry is through this control panel. There's no obvious way to connect it to a computer. Label on the back panel: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/back-panel.JPG The connectors labeled X, Y, and Z are for the DRO. [Note the connector for the cassette-tape interface, which we don't have] Label on the power supply: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/power-supply.JPG Note the date: 9/89 (~25 years old) The servos and encoders plug into this box, and there's a cable from here to the control box. In addition to the power supply, this box contains two boards labeled X and Y, I assume these are servo amps: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/servo-board1.JPG The big thing in the middle is a heat sink, with power transistors on both sides of it. The data connection is on the other side, through a hole in the plate it's mounted to. Visible chips include: TSC426CPA dual power mosfet driver TSC427CPA dual power mosfet driver HP 2601 line receiver optocoupler HP 2531 optocoupler Another view of the board: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/servo-board2.JPG Here are two views of the servo encoders: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/encoder1.JPG The chip is a DS8830N dual differential line driver http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/encoder2.JPG The chip is a HEDS9000 optical incremental encoder Here's the label on one of the servos: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/label1.JPG http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/label2.JPG Unfortunately it's very hard to read, and it appears that the vital info was not filled in. Here's what I think it says: DC MOTOR 60V ARPM DUTY CUST P/N 14969 REV D I G P/N 4020D-143 S N 4320 ASSEMBLED IN MEXICO BY INDIANA GENERAL HPL 730-352 Finally, here are the two logic boards inside the control box: http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/logic-board1.JPG http://www.panix.com/~rbean/temp/bridgeport/logic-board2.JPG (I just realised these pics are upside down :-) Each board has a MC6809 CPU and a whole bunch of 74LS-series logic chips. I think the chips in the yellow packages are resistor networks. Also visible on the 2nd board are: Intersil ICL232CPE dual line driver/receiver MC6850P UART MC1411P (7 darlington drivers) And some other stuff I couldn't identify. The owner says the machine is usable, but one axis stops working occasionally (I don't know which one). He'd like to get it working reliably with a way to input programs from a computer, and add a Z axis servo. Questions: Are these servos likely to be usable? Are the servo amps likely to be usable, and if so, what kind of input might they be expecting? [Do servo amps want step and direction inputs, or something else?] Do servo systems like this use a combination of data from the DRO and the servo encoders, or is the DRO separate? If you wanted to modernize this machine and add a 3rd axis, how would you go about it? We've gotten some interesting but questionable suggestions from members who were born
Re: [Emc-users] Converting a Proto-Trak 15020
On 8 May 2013 13:17, Matt Shaver m...@mattshaver.com wrote: B. My best advise would be to see if you can adapt a standard NEMA 34 (or 42) stepper motor to the mounting scheme on your machine. If so, build a new system and eBay the old one. I recommend this course of action due to my concern that eventually brush wear will kill the existing motors, and you'll be back in this same position too soon. I find it hard to support the idea of replacing servos with steppers, and replacing worn brushes shouldn't be especially difficult. As far as I have heard large steppers are rarely particularly satisfactory, as they tend to be rather sluggish. For a full motor and drive replacement I would be tempted to look at the DMM-tech sets: http://www.dmm-tech.com/Dyn3-H.html Should be LinuxCNC compatible (the other drives they have aren't). That motor and drive might be a good start for motorising the Z.The fact that they are mains-input devices is helpful as the existing PSU on that machine seems less than huge at 800W. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] convert mill
Has anyone any experience converting a Grizzly G8689 mini mill Richard -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On 8 May 2013 14:05, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone any experience converting a Grizzly G8689 mini mill I have converted something very similar. and a chap called Hoss (largely on the Mach3 side) has published a lot of info on similar machines: http://www.hossmachine.info/cnc_conversion.html It is an easy way to sink a fair bit of money into a pile of junk to end up with a computer-controlled pile of junk. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On Wed, 8 May 2013, andy pugh wrote: On 8 May 2013 14:05, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone any experience converting a Grizzly G8689 mini mill I have converted something very similar. and a chap called Hoss (largely on the Mach3 side) has published a lot of info on similar machines: http://www.hossmachine.info/cnc_conversion.html It is an easy way to sink a fair bit of money into a pile of junk to end up with a computer-controlled pile of junk. Ask before you buy It would save us time if you would say what you think :) Thanks Richard -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:22 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Ask before you buy It would save us time if you would say what you think :) Thanks Richard Jon Elson has one of those for demos. That's a really good mill for demos. Not sure it's so great for doing any work. I always thought it was a bit unfortunate that they decided to tilt the column. I keep considering the G704 since a lot of people I know have them, but I never get around to it. Eric -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
I converted one of these. Adding CNC to it just automates junk IMHO. I would say after you convert it, its 'average' but I'm glad I got rid of it. I sold it, and for not much more than I sold it for, got a used BOSSV with a working original control. 1000x more capable. I wish I had not bothered with the G8689 conversion.. You will spend more time working around the limitations of the machine and fixing problems with the machine than making parts. Lead screws are bad, adding a Z axis will require a lot of gearing or a pnuematic lift... On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 7:05 AM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone any experience converting a Grizzly G8689 mini mill Richard -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On 8 May 2013 15:22, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: It is an easy way to sink a fair bit of money into a pile of junk to end up with a computer-controlled pile of junk. Ask before you buy It would save us time if you would say what you think :) To be fair, it probably depends on what you want it for. However, it is instructive to slap the head of one, and watch it go boing It may be that mine is a particularly poor example of the genre, and having a table that is really meant to be a lathe cross-slide does not do my variant (a combination machine) any favours. A second-hand industrial machine will make you happier, though. Ooh! Look! http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACIERA-F1-UNIVERSAL-MILLING-MACHINE-/130902771785?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1e7a69c849 Needs a vertical head, though. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On 8 May 2013 16:11, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACIERA-F1-UNIVERSAL-MILLING-MACHINE-/130902771785?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1e7a69c849 It's one of these. Of course without the amazing array of accessories it is a bit less desirable: http://www.lathes.co.uk/aciera/index.html -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On 8 May 2013 16:14, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 May 2013 16:11, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACIERA-F1-UNIVERSAL-MILLING-MACHINE-/130902771785?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1e7a69c849 It's one of these. Of course without the amazing array of accessories it is a bit less desirable: http://www.lathes.co.uk/aciera/index.html Sorry to keep following myself up... It seems that the vertical head is purely a bracket to mount the spindle in a different orientation (and there is a universal variant too) Making a new one of those would not be at all difficult. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On Wednesday 08 May 2013 09:36:18 kqt4a...@gmail.com did opine: Has anyone any experience converting a Grizzly G8689 mini mill Richard Not that one specifically, but I've done the micro-mill. I made the motor mounts and all metal sliding joint couplings to connect nema 23 steppers to the x,y screws, mostly on my then manual 7x12 lathe. Its now LCNC'd too. Then I bought 2 more of the bearing hubs on the ends of the tables the screws run in and carved them back a bit to put small ball bearing thrust washers in each face which reduced the motor required torque by half or more. I also drill tapped them for grease fittings. And somewhere along the line LMS sold me the bigger table kit for it. On those smaller mills where the Z screw is behind the post, don't waste _any_ time trying to motorize that, the Z ways are about 3 too short and the instant a drill bit touches down it will wedge itself to the post. I tried that, but 5 lbs on the drill bit was the best a 425oz motor could muster. Very bad design, and one that, given the tools to cut v-ways, will get fixed with a whole new slider to run up and down the post. Eventually. If I don't fall over first. Also, the pull handle to advance the spindle has been removed, and the draw bolt in the casting to adjust the tension on the spindle barrel has been pulled up tight so that doesn't move and screw up LCNC's idea of where Z might be. The rack and pinion that drives that is so sloppy with backlash I never considered trying to motorize that with its 1/16 or more of backlash. The only thing it was good for was to supply the push the Z screw couldn't when using it for a drill press In the meantime, I turned the gearcase 90 degrees to make some clearance between the case and the post, and drilled into the top of the casting and planted a 1/2 Acme thread bolt about 1.5 inches or so in front of the post and thereby reducing the tilt leverage by about 5, then made an assembly that is bolted to the sides of the post, holding a ball bearing nut carrier carrying two of the nook nuts so I can adjust backlash, with the whole nut assembly turned by a 425oz motor with about a 2.5/1 geardown via a timing belt. I can now put a bath scale under the head and push the down button and get 155lbs of push to drill a hole. But as its worn into the post, stiction seems to be the order of the day, so if I need to do a 1 thou down move, I pick it up 20 thou and set it back down 21 thou in G0 move. I can fix it for an hours or so by splashing the ways with Vactra and running it up and down to distribute it, but it may come back mid job so I've gotten into the habit of just writing the rapids moves into my code. There are some pix on my web page in the sig below, click emc link, somewhat old now, but they show how the rebuilt Z is made. As far as linuxcnc, and its interface, a cnc4pc C1G breakout board, a 28 volt 10 amp switchmode supply, and 4 2m542 drivers are all in one box on a shelf above. Box is mostly sealed against swarf, has a strong internal fan to move the heat to the box walls, and the box walls are then cooled with a muffin fan blowing across the top of it. I also have a 425 motor on a 4 inch el-cheapo rotary table. Mountable as A,B,C depending on what I am doing. Also, the circuit board for the speed control in the gearcase was removed because it was catching flying grease, and it and a PMDX-106 were built into a separate box so I have LCNC control over spindle speed and direction of rotation. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml BOFH excuse #94: Internet outage A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On Wednesday 08 May 2013 11:19:17 andy pugh did opine: On 8 May 2013 14:05, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone any experience converting a Grizzly G8689 mini mill I have converted something very similar. and a chap called Hoss (largely on the Mach3 side) has published a lot of info on similar machines: http://www.hossmachine.info/cnc_conversion.html It is an easy way to sink a fair bit of money into a pile of junk to end up with a computer-controlled pile of junk. While I can't argue with the pile of junk part Andy, I do make useful things with it. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
andy pugh wrote: On 8 May 2013 15:22, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: To be fair, it probably depends on what you want it for. However, it is instructive to slap the head of one, and watch it go boing It may be that mine is a particularly poor example of the genre, and having a table that is really meant to be a lathe cross-slide does not do my variant (a combination machine) any favours. A second-hand industrial machine will make you happier, though. Ooh! Look! http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACIERA-F1-UNIVERSAL-MILLING-MACHINE-/130902771785?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1e7a69c849 Needs a vertical head, though. Take off the overarm and you have a small HMC!! Where's the tool changer? ;-) Ed. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
Eric Keller wrote: Jon Elson has one of those for demos. That's a really good mill for demos. Not sure it's so great for doing any work. I always thought it was a bit unfortunate that they decided to tilt the column. Here is some text and pics of my 150-Lb minimill converted to CNC. http://pico-systems.com/minimill.html This is actually my second version of this, first I did it with steppers, then sold the complete stepper system off it when I converted it to servos. I made two major changes to the machine. First, the Y leadscrew bushing had no bearings in it, so I bored out the bushing block to accept small bearings just like the X axis of the machine. (Can't understand why they have paired ball bearings on X and brass bushings on Y.) The second mod was to retrofit a ballscrew to the Z axis to bypass the very coarse rack and pinion drive. Since I have a Bridgeport, I use this machine mostly as a drill press and for demos. The 4 Y travel is the most limiting feature. Jon -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
John Murphy j...@wyosip.com writes: I sold it, and for not much more than I sold it for, got a used BOSSV with a working original control. What is a BOSSV? Google image search does not turn up anything related to metalworking. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 09:22 -0500, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 8 May 2013, andy pugh wrote: On 8 May 2013 14:05, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone any experience converting a Grizzly G8689 mini mill I have converted something very similar. and a chap called Hoss (largely on the Mach3 side) has published a lot of info on similar machines: http://www.hossmachine.info/cnc_conversion.html It is an easy way to sink a fair bit of money into a pile of junk to end up with a computer-controlled pile of junk. Ask before you buy It would save us time if you would say what you think :) Thanks Richard Roland Friestad of Cardinal Engineering at Galesburg used to convert Grizzly mill. He built good motor mounts swapped in ball screws and added a control. You were in fair money at the end and you still had a Grizzly. Starting with a cnc machine with a dead control is by far the easier and better way to go. That way you get servo motors matched to the iron, limit switches, etc. Best of luck which ever way you decide to go. Dave -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 12:35 -0400, Ron Bean wrote: John Murphy j...@wyosip.com writes: I sold it, and for not much more than I sold it for, got a used BOSSV with a working original control. What is a BOSSV? Google image search does not turn up anything related to metalworking. A search for Boss milling machine works! Dave -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On 5/8/2013 11:19 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Wednesday 08 May 2013 11:19:17 andy pugh did opine: On 8 May 2013 14:05,kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone any experience converting a Grizzly G8689 mini mill I have converted something very similar. and a chap called Hoss (largely on the Mach3 side) has published a lot of info on similar machines: http://www.hossmachine.info/cnc_conversion.html It is an easy way to sink a fair bit of money into a pile of junk to end up with a computer-controlled pile of junk. While I can't argue with the pile of junk part Andy, I do make useful things with it. Cheers, Gene Then I would argue with it being a pile of junk. I have a lot of tools of varying quality. Some were free and some were very cheap, yet they are still useful. The useless junk, goes to the scrap yard. Dave -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
A Bridgeport Mill with a Boss V control? Dave On 5/8/2013 2:56 PM, dave wrote: On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 12:35 -0400, Ron Bean wrote: John Murphyj...@wyosip.com writes: I sold it, and for not much more than I sold it for, got a used BOSSV with a working original control. What is a BOSSV? Google image search does not turn up anything related to metalworking. A search for Boss milling machine works! Dave -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
On 8 May 2013 16:19, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: While I can't argue with the pile of junk part Andy, I do make useful things with it. Mine can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4 But it isn't a joy to use like the Harrison is. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)
If that would suit then I'm happy with that Andy I would have too much io on the intended machine for just the p port I was wanting to use the Mesa 5i25 7i76 png kit Then the strip board with uln chip - is there anything else to go with the chip apart from the required connectors Is it just a case of field power to the chip signal to the chip and output from the chip John d norton C/o John Norton Fabs Ltd On 7 May 2013, at 02:04, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 7 May 2013 01:07, john d norton j...@jnfabs.co.uk wrote: http://www.baldor.com/support/Literature/Load.ashx/MN1942?ManNumber=MN1942 Ah, OK, servo in step-dir mode. I was assuming stepper motors. 8.1.6 says minimum 12V, max 30V, so you are going to need a buffer. The inputs are already opto-isolated so the UNL2003 seems about right. I suspect that many of the breakout boards on the market that say that they need a 5V supply would actually work perfectly happily on 24V (things like http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/breakout-boards/398-zp5a-int.html for example), though I could imagine the indicator LEDs dying instantly. I have a whole tube of ULN2003 if you want me to bung a couple in the post. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)
On 8 May 2013 23:09, john d norton j...@jnfabs.co.uk wrote: I would have too much io on the intended machine for just the p port I was wanting to use the Mesa 5i25 7i76 png kit In that case you might want to discuss with Mesa. it is entirely possible that there is an easy way to make the 7i76 24V-compatible. Then the strip board with uln chip - is there anything else to go with the chip apart from the required connectors Is it just a case of field power to the chip signal to the chip and output from the chip Pretty much, yes. The ULN is a switch-to-0V device, though, which requires a bit of mental gymnastics if you are used to thinking about +5V = yes 0V = no. You need to think in terms of current flow through the optos on the drive inputs. So +24V from your PSU goes to the + terminal of the input, the relevant pin of the ULN connects to the - terminal of the input, and the common ULN Earth/ground pin connects to the PSU 0V. When there is 5V on the ULN input pin, then there is current flow into the output pin to earth, the LED in the opto lights up, and a signal is seen by the drive. The ULN2003 is capable of 50V and 0.5A per output. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Converting a Proto-Trak 15020
--- On Wed, 5/8/13, Matt Shaver m...@mattshaver.com wrote: 4. To do the Z axis, you need a quill drive mechanism. Jon Elson has (I think) pictures of his that he made from scratch on his web site. If money is no object (!), Elrod Machine has a kit: http://www.elrodmachine.com/Z%20Axis%20CNC%20Quill%20kit.htm Or you can CNC the knee, but this is tougher due to the power required. I've seen pictures of a couple of BP style CNC knee mills with a vertical slide between the head and ram. That way the head retains all its original manual functions and power feed. Gas struts or air cylinders can be used to take some load off the knee for power or manual motion. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] convert mill
--- On Wed, 5/8/13, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote: Jon Elson has one of those for demos. That's a really good mill for demos. Not sure it's so great for doing any work. I always thought it was a bit unfortunate that they decided to tilt the column. That's when you borrow the use of a big mill to do a bit of creative machining to fix it so it no longer tilts and is perpendicular to the table. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Converting a Proto-Trak 15020
On Wed, 8 May 2013 13:49:59 +0100 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 May 2013 13:17, Matt Shaver m...@mattshaver.com wrote: B. My best advise would be to see if you can adapt a standard NEMA 34 (or 42) stepper motor to the mounting scheme on your machine. If so, build a new system and eBay the old one. I recommend this course of action due to my concern that eventually brush wear will kill the existing motors, and you'll be back in this same position too soon. I find it hard to support the idea of replacing servos with steppers, and replacing worn brushes shouldn't be especially difficult. I will agree that the best cheap way to go is to see if the amps and motors can be re-used. That said, if this machine is like the ones I recall seeing, the existing servo motors are much smaller than the typical ones used on a Series 1 Bridgeport. I also agree that if the motors and drives are to be replaced, the 3 phase AC servos you linked to are really nice, but we don't know the budget yet :) As far as I have heard large steppers are rarely particularly satisfactory, as they tend to be rather sluggish. You'd be amazed at the the performance you can get out of 86mm and 110mm two and three phase Chinese stepper motors and line voltage powered drives from Leadshine. Thanks, Matt -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
