Re: [Emc-users] A lot of input/output. Cheap

[Dave Cole]

On 9/22/2015 3:45 AM, Sven Wesley wrote:
> 2015-09-21 9:24 GMT+02:00 alex chiosso :
>
>> Hi Sven.
>> Can you send a picture of the machine you have to retrofit ?
>> Is it an injection moulding machine ?
>> If yes how many tons is the closing clamp force and how many heating zones
>> have the injection barrel/chamber ?
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> Here you go.
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5652/20606563013_d2a911f7e7_b.jpg
>
> It's a really nice machine, a Stübbe that has been running extremely fine
> moulds. I can even rotate the moulding line to vertical position. I am
> actually thinking of ripping the machine a part and make a new base with
> the clamps fixed in vertical position to save space.
> --

I would avoid putting the machine vertical unless you have no choice.   
The machine likely is setup for ejectors that push the molded parts out 
so they can drop down.

It will also mess with your mold heat control since you will have one 
above the other.   Heat rises and you will be surprised how much the 
heat will transfer from the bottom plate to the top plate.

Last, how will you change molds with one on top of the other.   With it 
vertical, now you can't drop them in with a crane/lift.

Also the granule feed system for the screw is usually gravity feed.   
That would need some rework.  You will be surprised how difficult doing 
that will be.

There are some good reasons why they are made in a horizontal fashion.  
You will also likely need to alter the hydraulics so the machine doesn't 
fall open or closed if it loses power.

Dave

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[Emc-users] R: R: A lot of input/output. Cheap

[Alex Chiosso]

If you would like a 'personal" usage machine you can try what ever Solution 
should work.
But if you are searching For a reliable industrial grade Solution you have to 
spend some Money. This is my experience on that specific argument. Sometimes 
cheap is not good. ;-)

- Messaggio originale -
Da: "Karlsson & Wang" 
Inviato: ‎22/‎09/‎2015 19:28
A: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] R:  A lot of input/output. Cheap

> Hi Sven.
> It is a small machine but in any case I suggest to you to use a plc in stead 
> on LCNC.
> I mean it is possibile to do it even with LCNC but will be much difficult.
> I did many injection  molding machine retrofit (the electric and Electronic 
> and software part) and a plc+hmi is the much confortable solution.
> Realtime is needed as per machine cycle control (you have to be deterministic 
> for a precise and reliable control).
> A 10ms task can be acceptable.
> I personally made a hw and sw package with Schneider Electric plc M258 and 
> hmi Magelis GTO 10"" touch screen plus a software Application that I 
> personally developed.
> But if you have time to spend and less money you cam try LCNC + MODBUS IO . 
> ;-)

I would say HMIs are quite exensive comparted to slightly outdated PC, what do 
you say about that?

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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Charles Buckley]

  I have not been keeping up with machinekit as much as I should, but it
does look like they are moving to server/client. Looks like they have moved
the UI, task scheduler, RS274 interpreter, and basic machine commands to
use API's. Trajectory planner, kinematics, hardware drivers, etc, etc
remain on the Beaglebone. If I am reading this doc correctly, I would think
that you could program pretty much anything to connect to the API's. Should
be OS agnostic where the UI is running. I do know they are doing the
development against tablets as I have downloaded that.

Hmm..  there even looks to be a thread for windows machinekit clients..
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/machinekit/machinekit$20windows/machinekit/fHCykq4nXHA/3VYwQEQAFgAJ
 If I am reading this correctly, they just don't have a lot of developers
working compared to the tablet option.

Personally, I have been more interested in an industrial setting whereby I
could integrate a lot of systems into a monitoring and tracking system to
show where systems are in their machine cycle. If nothing else, then maybe
something as straightforward as SNMP traps so that monitoring systems -
such as Nagios - could pick that up. Or, a single UI driving multiple
machines, which would be possible with an API model - similar to octoprint.
With the cost of BBB and similar x86 or ARM systems, linuxcnc as a
standalone PC is not necessarily where things will end up long term.
(conjecture on my part. I am not involved in an architectural discussions
and I'm a weak coder).

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 1:45 AM, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:

> On 9/21/2015 2:20 PM, Charles Buckley wrote:
> > Well, you can eliminate windows completely, if you have a phone or
> android
> > tablet.
> >
> >
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.machinekit.appdiscover=en
> >
> > I would argue that the ability to split the GUI from the engine is a good
> > thing overall, but at your core, you're still looking at having a full OS
> > sitting out there and the underlying architecture and filesystem layout
> can
> > not easily be circumvented.
>
> What that would be is a client-server type of system, with LCNC running
> on a micro-system in the role of the server, with the GUI running on the
> Windows or OS X or other system as the client.
>
> The trick is to achieve transparency of operation so that GCODE and
> commands for start, stop, E-stop etc sent to the LCNC server and
> feedback returned to the client operates seamlessly and without
> interference with the micro-system actually operating the CNC machine.
>
> It would (should) also be simpler to adapt the client to different
> versions of its host OS since the data going both ways from the server
> wouldn't change.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] R: R: A lot of input/output. Cheap

[Sven Wesley]

It is either throw out the door or retrofit it to run a couple of more
years.
I might even rip it in pieces and use some of the parts to make a smaller
vertical machine.



2015-09-22 19:37 GMT+02:00 Alex Chiosso :

> If you would like a 'personal" usage machine you can try what ever
> Solution should work.
> But if you are searching For a reliable industrial grade Solution you have
> to spend some Money. This is my experience on that specific argument.
> Sometimes cheap is not good. ;-)
>
> - Messaggio originale -
> Da: "Karlsson & Wang" 
> Inviato: ‎22/‎09/‎2015 19:28
> A: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] R:  A lot of input/output. Cheap
>
> > Hi Sven.
> > It is a small machine but in any case I suggest to you to use a plc in
> stead on LCNC.
> > I mean it is possibile to do it even with LCNC but will be much
> difficult.
> > I did many injection  molding machine retrofit (the electric and
> Electronic and software part) and a plc+hmi is the much confortable
> solution.
> > Realtime is needed as per machine cycle control (you have to be
> deterministic for a precise and reliable control).
> > A 10ms task can be acceptable.
> > I personally made a hw and sw package with Schneider Electric plc M258
> and hmi Magelis GTO 10"" touch screen plus a software Application that I
> personally developed.
> > But if you have time to spend and less money you cam try LCNC + MODBUS
> IO . ;-)
>
> I would say HMIs are quite exensive comparted to slightly outdated PC,
> what do you say about that?
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Viesturs Lācis]

2015-09-22 21:54 GMT+03:00 Charles Buckley :
>  If I am reading this correctly, they just don't have a lot of developers
> working compared to the tablet option.

Well, it seems that you did not read correctly - Alex Rossler is the
author of machinekit-client application. All of its versions -
android, linux, windows, macos. So the number of devs is the same for
all the target environments. Regarding particular GUIs - Cetus,
Machineface or maybe something new - all the xml files reside on BBB,
so it does not depend on target environment.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] lathe G71

[Marius Liebenberg]

Rudy du Preez did some work on that. He sent me some stuff to test that 
you could look at if you wanted to.

-- Original Message --
From: "Tom Easterday" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller" 
Sent: 2015-09-22 01:11:08
Subject: [Emc-users] lathe G71

>Does anyone know what became of this discussion in 2012?  
>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/39104
>
>Was there an G71 implementation done based on remapping?
>
>Thanks,
>-Tom
>
>
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[Emc-users] R: A lot of input/output. Cheap

[Alex Chiosso]

Hi Sven.
It is a small machine but in any case I suggest to you to use a plc in stead on 
LCNC.
I mean it is possibile to do it even with LCNC but will be much difficult.
I did many injection  molding machine retrofit (the electric and Electronic and 
software part) and a plc+hmi is the much confortable solution.
Realtime is needed as per machine cycle control (you have to be deterministic 
for a precise and reliable control).
A 10ms task can be acceptable.
I personally made a hw and sw package with Schneider Electric plc M258 and hmi 
Magelis GTO 10"" touch screen plus a software Application that I personally 
developed.
But if you have time to spend and less money you cam try LCNC + MODBUS IO . ;-)



- Messaggio originale -
Da: "Karlsson & Wang" 
Inviato: ‎22/‎09/‎2015 15:56
A: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] A lot of input/output. Cheap

> > Hi Sven.
> > Can you send a picture of the machine you have to retrofit ?
> > Is it an injection moulding machine ?
> > If yes how many tons is the closing clamp force and how many heating zones
> > have the injection barrel/chamber ?
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > Here you go.
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5652/20606563013_d2a911f7e7_b.jpg
> 
> It's a really nice machine, a Stübbe that has been running extremely fine
> moulds. I can even rotate the moulding line to vertical position. I am
> actually thinking of ripping the machine a part and make a new base with
> the clamps fixed in vertical position to save space.

I also have an old injection mould machine I plan to retrofit. But I also have 
other problems power supply is limited so fuses will before correct pressure is 
reached.

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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

I Agree!  For the same reason seeing windows MACH3 hang and the USB smooth
stepper continue to send out stepping pulses on the Z throwing the machine
alignment out as it pushes against the table.  (router bit not turning and
didn't break).

An ESTOP and limits have to be part of the hardware interface side of the
equation.And there has to be enough intelligence to let the trajectory
planner know what has happened.  Even with as simple a feature as a remote
feed hold button.

One can't just send large blocks of motion information to the target
hardware and then tap feed hold and wait for 30 seconds worth of queued
motion to play out.  By the same token the graphic display and trajectory
planner needs to know when the hardware did actually stop so it can rewind
back to that point and start again.  So it's a tightly  coupled closed loop
control.  All currently done on one computer with access to both sets of
data structures for motion commands and motion implementation.

But the future _is_ separate drive and interface.   When I have some time
I'll look further into this.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Wendt [mailto:wendt.m...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-22-15 2:47 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM
> for LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Gregg Eshelman 
> wrote:
> 
> > The trick is to achieve transparency of operation so that GCODE and
> > commands for start, stop, E-stop etc sent to the LCNC server and
> > feedback returned to the client operates seamlessly and without
> > interference with the micro-system actually operating the CNC machine.
> 
> That.
> 
> That's the biggest concern I have for a heavy machine, spinning sharp
> objects, and whoops!  The wireless went down.  Or the wired switch
> decided to take a dump.
> 
> Those reasons are why I don't use wireless or bluetooth keyboards,
> mice and pendants.  A hard wire connect to a single computer running
> the code to me is just the safest way of doing things.  Drip feed by
> DNC is okay, that's a horse of a different course.
> 
> Mark
> 
> --
> One Man, One Machine, One Computer!  
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 22 September 2015 10:36:03 Rick Lair wrote:

> Attached is a copy of the pinout, the connector is in the red box
> pertaining to the crt.
>
> Rick
>
> On 9/22/2015 10:23 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > 2015-09-22 11:19 GMT-03:00 Rick Lair :
> >> Would something along these lines work?
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-MDA-RGB-CGA-EGA-to-VGA-industrial
> >>-Converter-/250851103017?hash=item3a67e41129
> >
> > I guess that board woul work ok since it looks a lot better than
> > mine. If you have the CGA frequencies you should have no problems.
> >
> > Mine was the same as this:
> >
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Arcade-game-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-vi
> >deo-converter-board-HD9800-GBS8200-/170860805754?hash=item27c818fe7a

There was a link from that to another one at $19, free ship.  It should 
do the job.


It should do the job.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] R: A lot of input/output. Cheap

[Karlsson & Wang]

> Hi Sven.
> It is a small machine but in any case I suggest to you to use a plc in stead 
> on LCNC.
> I mean it is possibile to do it even with LCNC but will be much difficult.
> I did many injection  molding machine retrofit (the electric and Electronic 
> and software part) and a plc+hmi is the much confortable solution.
> Realtime is needed as per machine cycle control (you have to be deterministic 
> for a precise and reliable control).
> A 10ms task can be acceptable.
> I personally made a hw and sw package with Schneider Electric plc M258 and 
> hmi Magelis GTO 10"" touch screen plus a software Application that I 
> personally developed.
> But if you have time to spend and less money you cam try LCNC + MODBUS IO . 
> ;-)

I would say HMIs are quite exensive comparted to slightly outdated PC, what do 
you say about that?

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[Emc-users] Need a computer (LinuxCNC & Mesa) Advice

[Willy Snow]

Hi,

I am looking for a computer which works with the Mesa cards (5i25 in
particular). This is for professional use. If a higher priced one saves me
time, I am all for it. Size is not a big issue. I can use mini ATX or mini
ITX. I also may buy more than one. Future availability would save
configuration time.

I tried an old CAD station and desktop with no luck. This may be due to
video card and ram respectively. It works pretty well on my current CAD
station (17 micro sec latency)

I am not sure of the best way to find one. My thoughts were to just go on
craigslist and test computers.

These are the computers I found on this or other lists, but these are ITX.
I read ATX is more reliable??
mini ITX (seem to be returnable (if open?))
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138412
www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home...A=REG=details


This is a cheap duo core refurb. I think it is ATX?? But it is not
returnable.
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883798414

I also read latency does not matter much if I use the Mesa cards. So all
these may work? I may be making too big a deal out of it? I am definitely
confused.

Bill
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Re: [Emc-users] Need a computer (LinuxCNC & Mesa) Advice

[Jerry Scharf]

Bill,

If it is for professional use, I would not get a refurb unit. Why take
someone else's problem for a few bucks. For the mini(itx,atx) systems,
cooling is the biggest issue. They tend to often focus on home media apps,
and they want the lowest sound, which means poor thermal management. I's
the same reason you don't use a laptop in a server situation, no matter how
cheap it is. Depending on the mounting, either small towers or small 1U
rack mount chassis do the best, IMO.

Just about any modern processor chip will have plenty of horsepower for
this kind of app. Buying the lower end of the latest generation is the best
way to make sure that the parts will be available for a while.

jerry


On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Willy Snow  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a computer which works with the Mesa cards (5i25 in
> particular). This is for professional use. If a higher priced one saves me
> time, I am all for it. Size is not a big issue. I can use mini ATX or mini
> ITX. I also may buy more than one. Future availability would save
> configuration time.
>
> I tried an old CAD station and desktop with no luck. This may be due to
> video card and ram respectively. It works pretty well on my current CAD
> station (17 micro sec latency)
>
> I am not sure of the best way to find one. My thoughts were to just go on
> craigslist and test computers.
>
> These are the computers I found on this or other lists, but these are ITX.
> I read ATX is more reliable??
> mini ITX (seem to be returnable (if open?))
> www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138412
> www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home...A=REG=details
> <
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1044669=CKS50NfVgMgCFUuSfgodd8II9A=REG=details
> >
>
> This is a cheap duo core refurb. I think it is ATX?? But it is not
> returnable.
> www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883798414
>
> I also read latency does not matter much if I use the Mesa cards. So all
> these may work? I may be making too big a deal out of it? I am definitely
> confused.
>
> Bill
>
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-- 
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FINsix IT
650.285.6361 w
650.279.7017 m
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 9/22/2015 7:42 AM, Rick Lair wrote:
> Hello Guys,
>
> This is off topic for sure, but knew of no better place to ask with all
> the electronics knowledge floating around here.
>
> On our big vertical lathe, it has an old 9" CRT that is starting to give
> us troubles, and I would like to convert it to an LCD, the only problem
> is, that I am having a hard time figuring out the signaling going to the
> new monitor. It is a Fanuc control, so it has a Honda 20 pin male
> connector going to the CRT unit, which I scavenged up the diagram for
> the pin-out. I have 20 pin female connectors here already, so I can make
> a patch cable to VGA to connect it to the new monitor, but the signals
> are different from one to another. The current CRT has Hsync, Vsync, and
> a single wire Video signal, along with three 0V wires in the harness,
> and on a separate connector, the power for the monitor. But a standard
> VGA has Red, Green, Blue, then Hsync, and Vsync, and a few GRD connections.
>
> Maybe I need a signal converter, I have found quite a few of them on
> eBay, or can I just make up a cable and run with it?

Those old monochrome monitors would be some variety of digital TTL 
signaling instead of the analog signaling VGA used.

I'd bet it's not the same as the TTL method IBM used on their old mono 
monitors.


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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 9/22/2015 10:47 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> I Agree!  For the same reason seeing windows MACH3 hang and the USB smooth
> stepper continue to send out stepping pulses on the Z throwing the machine
> alignment out as it pushes against the table.  (router bit not turning and
> didn't break).
>
> An ESTOP and limits have to be part of the hardware interface side of the
> equation.And there has to be enough intelligence to let the trajectory
> planner know what has happened.  Even with as simple a feature as a remote
> feed hold button.
>
> One can't just send large blocks of motion information to the target
> hardware and then tap feed hold and wait for 30 seconds worth of queued
> motion to play out.  By the same token the graphic display and trajectory
> planner needs to know when the hardware did actually stop so it can rewind
> back to that point and start again.  So it's a tightly  coupled closed loop
> control.  All currently done on one computer with access to both sets of
> data structures for motion commands and motion implementation.
>
> But the future _is_ separate drive and interface.   When I have some time
> I'll look further into this.

The machine hardware needs to be smart enough to monitor for 
communication failures. There should be full duplex communication so 
that every command either way is answered by an ACK. No response, it 
shuts down.


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Re: [Emc-users] Need a computer (LinuxCNC & Mesa) Advice

[Karlsson & Wang]

> If it is for professional use, I would not get a refurb unit. Why take
> someone else's problem for a few bucks. For the mini(itx,atx) systems,
> cooling is the biggest issue. They tend to often focus on home media apps,
> and they want the lowest sound, which means poor thermal management. I's
> the same reason you don't use a laptop in a server situation, no matter how
> cheap it is. Depending on the mounting, either small towers or small 1U
> rack mount chassis do the best, IMO.

According to my experience old servers or other large computer often could be 
bought cheap.

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Re: [Emc-users] R: R: A lot of input/output. Cheap

[Karlsson & Wang]

> If you would like a 'personal" usage machine you can try what ever Solution 
> should work.
> But if you are searching For a reliable industrial grade Solution you have to 
> spend some Money. This is my experience on that specific argument. Sometimes 
> cheap is not good. ;-)

This is also my view and that is why it could be better to buy old industrial 
machine instead of a brand new hobby machine. But if a few year old computer is 
good enough it so cheap I take the risc to replace it later.

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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Charles,
> 
>   I have not been keeping up with machinekit as much as I should, but it
> does look like they are moving to server/client. Looks like they have
moved
> the UI, task scheduler, RS274 interpreter, and basic machine commands to
> use API's. Trajectory planner, kinematics, hardware drivers, etc, etc
> remain on the Beaglebone. If I am reading this doc correctly, I would
think
> that you could program pretty much anything to connect to the API's.
Should
> be OS agnostic where the UI is running. I do know they are doing the
> development against tablets as I have downloaded that.

Because the BBB has the two PRU processors all the stepping movement etc.
has been offloaded.  At the moment though, last I checked, support for a
spindle encoder for lathe threading isn't there yet.  With that in mind I
doubt that encoder feedback for DC Servos is there either.  And the Beagle
doesn't have 5 or 6 QEI devices (only 2) so some sort of external cape would
still be required if you wanted a full 5 axis system along with an encoder
on the spindle.  But then that's true for a desktop PC too right?

The Beagle won't be the ultimate solution even for the embedded systems I
design.  It's got only two CAN bus ports.  I'm still stuck using a Freescale
9S12 8/16 bit controller because it has 5 CAN bus channels of which I use 3
or 4.  And the development, debugging and programming software for that is
stuck at the WIN-XP level and isn't available at all for Linux.

The Beagle could do a Lathe with an encoder and stepper motors.  Even with a
small touch screen interface.  The world has changed a lot in the last 5
years.

John
  


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Re: [Emc-users] R: A lot of input/output. Cheap

[John Thornton]

ClassicLadder is just as good as a PLC for this kind of machine...

On 9/22/2015 12:08 PM, Alex Chiosso wrote:
> Hi Sven.
> It is a small machine but in any case I suggest to you to use a plc in stead 
> on LCNC.
> I mean it is possibile to do it even with LCNC but will be much difficult.
> I did many injection  molding machine retrofit (the electric and Electronic 
> and software part) and a plc+hmi is the much confortable solution.
> Realtime is needed as per machine cycle control (you have to be deterministic 
> for a precise and reliable control).
> A 10ms task can be acceptable.
> I personally made a hw and sw package with Schneider Electric plc M258 and 
> hmi Magelis GTO 10"" touch screen plus a software Application that I 
> personally developed.
> But if you have time to spend and less money you cam try LCNC + MODBUS IO . 
> ;-)
>
>
>
> - Messaggio originale -
> Da: "Karlsson & Wang" 
> Inviato: ‎22/‎09/‎2015 15:56
> A: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] A lot of input/output. Cheap
>
>>> Hi Sven.
>>> Can you send a picture of the machine you have to retrofit ?
>>> Is it an injection moulding machine ?
>>> If yes how many tons is the closing clamp force and how many heating zones
>>> have the injection barrel/chamber ?
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> Here you go.
>> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5652/20606563013_d2a911f7e7_b.jpg
>>
>> It's a really nice machine, a Stübbe that has been running extremely fine
>> moulds. I can even rotate the moulding line to vertical position. I am
>> actually thinking of ripping the machine a part and make a new base with
>> the clamps fixed in vertical position to save space.
> I also have an old injection mould machine I plan to retrofit. But I also 
> have other problems power supply is limited so fuses will before correct 
> pressure is reached.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Need a computer (LinuxCNC & Mesa) Advice

[John Thornton]

http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/18-computer/29147-intel-cpu-on-board-motherboard-suggestion?start=20#62849

On 9/22/2015 11:24 AM, Willy Snow wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a computer which works with the Mesa cards (5i25 in
> particular). This is for professional use.


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Re: [Emc-users] R: A lot of input/output. Cheap

[John Thornton]

I'd say the smallest touch panel you could get would be twice the price 
of a good PC...

On 9/22/2015 12:25 PM, Karlsson & Wang wrote:
>> Hi Sven.
>> It is a small machine but in any case I suggest to you to use a plc in stead 
>> on LCNC.
>> I mean it is possibile to do it even with LCNC but will be much difficult.
>> I did many injection  molding machine retrofit (the electric and Electronic 
>> and software part) and a plc+hmi is the much confortable solution.
>> Realtime is needed as per machine cycle control (you have to be 
>> deterministic for a precise and reliable control).
>> A 10ms task can be acceptable.
>> I personally made a hw and sw package with Schneider Electric plc M258 and 
>> hmi Magelis GTO 10"" touch screen plus a software Application that I 
>> personally developed.
>> But if you have time to spend and less money you cam try LCNC + MODBUS IO . 
>> ;-)
> I would say HMIs are quite exensive comparted to slightly outdated PC, what 
> do you say about that?
>
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Re: [Emc-users] R: A lot of input/output. Cheap

[Dave Cole]

The controls on some of those smaller injection moulders was pretty 
sophisticated even back in the day.

The shot control was the critical thing, assuming it has a proportional 
hydraulic control valve on the ram.   It was and still is very common to 
run a pressure vs position curve on the ram as it injects to fill the 
mold properly.And at some point the control mode would be switched 
to a pressure control mode at the end of the stroke to pack the mold 
full.  A fast PLC can do it.I suppose it could also be done with a 
LCNC and a bunch of time.   The barrel temp control usually has a number 
of zones and uses electric heater bands and a thermocouple for each 
zone.   The ram position sensor on those older machines is usually a 
Temposonics type sensor.   A lot of them had the driver hardware built 
right into the controller boards to drive the Temposonics position 
sensor.  If you are lucky there is a standalone Temposonics interface 
board that puts out 0-10VDC.  I've worked on several injection molding 
machines.

Dave



On 9/22/2015 7:15 PM, John Thornton wrote:
> I'd say the smallest touch panel you could get would be twice the price
> of a good PC...
>
> On 9/22/2015 12:25 PM, Karlsson & Wang wrote:
>>> Hi Sven.
>>> It is a small machine but in any case I suggest to you to use a plc in 
>>> stead on LCNC.
>>> I mean it is possibile to do it even with LCNC but will be much difficult.
>>> I did many injection  molding machine retrofit (the electric and Electronic 
>>> and software part) and a plc+hmi is the much confortable solution.
>>> Realtime is needed as per machine cycle control (you have to be 
>>> deterministic for a precise and reliable control).
>>> A 10ms task can be acceptable.
>>> I personally made a hw and sw package with Schneider Electric plc M258 and 
>>> hmi Magelis GTO 10"" touch screen plus a software Application that I 
>>> personally developed.
>>> But if you have time to spend and less money you cam try LCNC + MODBUS IO . 
>>> ;-)
>> I would say HMIs are quite exensive comparted to slightly outdated PC, what 
>> do you say about that?
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] A lot of input/output. Cheap

[Sven Wesley]

2015-09-21 9:24 GMT+02:00 alex chiosso :

> Hi Sven.
> Can you send a picture of the machine you have to retrofit ?
> Is it an injection moulding machine ?
> If yes how many tons is the closing clamp force and how many heating zones
> have the injection barrel/chamber ?
>
> Regards.
>
> Alex
>
> Here you go.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5652/20606563013_d2a911f7e7_b.jpg

It's a really nice machine, a Stübbe that has been running extremely fine
moulds. I can even rotate the moulding line to vertical position. I am
actually thinking of ripping the machine a part and make a new base with
the clamps fixed in vertical position to save space.
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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 9/21/2015 2:20 PM, Charles Buckley wrote:
> Well, you can eliminate windows completely, if you have a phone or android
> tablet.
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.machinekit.appdiscover=en
>
> I would argue that the ability to split the GUI from the engine is a good
> thing overall, but at your core, you're still looking at having a full OS
> sitting out there and the underlying architecture and filesystem layout can
> not easily be circumvented.

What that would be is a client-server type of system, with LCNC running 
on a micro-system in the role of the server, with the GUI running on the 
Windows or OS X or other system as the client.

The trick is to achieve transparency of operation so that GCODE and 
commands for start, stop, E-stop etc sent to the LCNC server and 
feedback returned to the client operates seamlessly and without 
interference with the micro-system actually operating the CNC machine.

It would (should) also be simpler to adapt the client to different 
versions of its host OS since the data going both ways from the server 
wouldn't change.

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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

> 
> What that would be is a client-server type of system, with LCNC running
> on a micro-system in the role of the server, with the GUI running on the
> Windows or OS X or other system as the client.
> 
> The trick is to achieve transparency of operation so that GCODE and
> commands for start, stop, E-stop etc sent to the LCNC server and
> feedback returned to the client operates seamlessly and without
> interference with the micro-system actually operating the CNC machine.
> 
> It would (should) also be simpler to adapt the client to different
> versions of its host OS since the data going both ways from the server
> wouldn't change.
> 

Quite right but it does come down to the definition of LCNC.  What it is and
what it does.  I'd suggest, like on the Windows side the control of the
hardware part of the device driver and can be handled with some sort of
external controller.  Like on the windows side the Smooth Stepper family,
on the Linux side the Mesa cards and other specialty hardware.  

And that's where the Beagle Bone would fit in - as the mechanical interface
to the motion planning and display which is the core of Linux.

Given my experience with USB on Windows I'd suggest that it isn't the way to
go.  A dedicated Ethernet connection with 100Mbps data rates is more than
fast enough to provide any sort of timely feedback.  That means a WizNet
Ethernet Module at 9600 baud to an Arduino is _not_ the way to go.  I'm not
sure a tablet running windows with a wifi connection to a beagle is the
right way either.  Reliability is a bit suspect.

But Ethernet is becoming the new industrial control bus so it's not an
unreasonable assumption that splitting the system wouldn't work quite well.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Tuesday 22 September 2015 05:46:42 Mark Wendt wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Gregg Eshelman 
> wrote:
>> > The trick is to achieve transparency of operation so that GCODE and
>> > commands for start, stop, E-stop etc sent to the LCNC server and
>> > feedback returned to the client operates seamlessly and without
>> > interference with the micro-system actually operating the CNC
>> > machine.
>>
>> That.
>>
>> That's the biggest concern I have for a heavy machine, spinning sharp
>> objects, and whoops!  The wireless went down.  Or the wired switch
>> decided to take a dump.
>>
>> Those reasons are why I don't use wireless or bluetooth keyboards,
>> mice and pendants.  A hard wire connect to a single computer running
>> the code to me is just the safest way of doing things.  Drip feed by
>> DNC is okay, that's a horse of a different course.
>>
>> Mark
>
> And I haven't had a wireless mouse or keyboard that if the batteries were
> good, did anything but work.  The keyboard in particular is extremely
> handy without the distance limiting cord, as I can pick it up off its
> normal resting place about 3 deet from the machine, carry it over and
> park it on the Y motor when I am setting up for the next operation.
>
> >From where I sit at the operating position Z is the only axis I can see
> well enough when jogging. So I either need to get a camera, and camview
> and align setup and calibrated, or go over to the machine with the
> keyboard.  As for batteries failing, I've not had them fail in anything
> but the key up position.  Ever.
>
> Now, if I could just find a fitted cover for a logitech K360 keyboard to
> keep the swarf and coffee drippings out of it.  I find that even with
> the square sided keys, swarf can jam it.
>
> YMMV of course.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

All it takes is a bit of interference in the band of radios waves
those devices use.  I still prefer hardwired connections rather than
trusting radio waves on stuff like that.  Or, as you mentioned, the
batteries.  It only has to happen once.

Mark

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[Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Rick Lair]

Hello Guys,

This is off topic for sure, but knew of no better place to ask with all 
the electronics knowledge floating around here.

On our big vertical lathe, it has an old 9" CRT that is starting to give 
us troubles, and I would like to convert it to an LCD, the only problem 
is, that I am having a hard time figuring out the signaling going to the 
new monitor. It is a Fanuc control, so it has a Honda 20 pin male 
connector going to the CRT unit, which I scavenged up the diagram for 
the pin-out. I have 20 pin female connectors here already, so I can make 
a patch cable to VGA to connect it to the new monitor, but the signals 
are different from one to another. The current CRT has Hsync, Vsync, and 
a single wire Video signal, along with three 0V wires in the harness, 
and on a separate connector, the power for the monitor. But a standard 
VGA has Red, Green, Blue, then Hsync, and Vsync, and a few GRD connections.

Maybe I need a signal converter, I have found quite a few of them on 
eBay, or can I just make up a cable and run with it?

-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 22 September 2015 05:46:42 Mark Wendt wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Gregg Eshelman  
wrote:
> > The trick is to achieve transparency of operation so that GCODE and
> > commands for start, stop, E-stop etc sent to the LCNC server and
> > feedback returned to the client operates seamlessly and without
> > interference with the micro-system actually operating the CNC
> > machine.
>
> That.
>
> That's the biggest concern I have for a heavy machine, spinning sharp
> objects, and whoops!  The wireless went down.  Or the wired switch
> decided to take a dump.
>
> Those reasons are why I don't use wireless or bluetooth keyboards,
> mice and pendants.  A hard wire connect to a single computer running
> the code to me is just the safest way of doing things.  Drip feed by
> DNC is okay, that's a horse of a different course.
>
> Mark

And I haven't had a wireless mouse or keyboard that if the batteries were 
good, did anything but work.  The keyboard in particular is extremely 
handy without the distance limiting cord, as I can pick it up off its 
normal resting place about 3 deet from the machine, carry it over and 
park it on the Y motor when I am setting up for the next operation.

>From where I sit at the operating position Z is the only axis I can see 
well enough when jogging. So I either need to get a camera, and camview 
and align setup and calibrated, or go over to the machine with the  
keyboard.  As for batteries failing, I've not had them fail in anything 
but the key up position.  Ever.

Now, if I could just find a fitted cover for a logitech K360 keyboard to 
keep the swarf and coffee drippings out of it.  I find that even with 
the square sided keys, swarf can jam it.

YMMV of course.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] A lot of input/output. Cheap

[Karlsson & Wang]

> > Hi Sven.
> > Can you send a picture of the machine you have to retrofit ?
> > Is it an injection moulding machine ?
> > If yes how many tons is the closing clamp force and how many heating zones
> > have the injection barrel/chamber ?
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > Here you go.
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5652/20606563013_d2a911f7e7_b.jpg
> 
> It's a really nice machine, a Stübbe that has been running extremely fine
> moulds. I can even rotate the moulding line to vertical position. I am
> actually thinking of ripping the machine a part and make a new base with
> the clamps fixed in vertical position to save space.

I also have an old injection mould machine I plan to retrofit. But I also have 
other problems power supply is limited so fuses will before correct pressure is 
reached.

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[Emc-users] Roboting vid

[Sven Wesley]

This guy just posted over at cnczone. Good work I say. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH1eaS56UvI
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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:

> The trick is to achieve transparency of operation so that GCODE and
> commands for start, stop, E-stop etc sent to the LCNC server and
> feedback returned to the client operates seamlessly and without
> interference with the micro-system actually operating the CNC machine.

That.

That's the biggest concern I have for a heavy machine, spinning sharp
objects, and whoops!  The wireless went down.  Or the wired switch
decided to take a dump.

Those reasons are why I don't use wireless or bluetooth keyboards,
mice and pendants.  A hard wire connect to a single computer running
the code to me is just the safest way of doing things.  Drip feed by
DNC is okay, that's a horse of a different course.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] lathe G71

[Tom Easterday]

Sure, do you have a pointer to it?
Thanks,
-Tom

> On Sep 22, 2015, at 2:07 AM, Marius Liebenberg  wrote:
> 
> Rudy du Preez did some work on that. He sent me some stuff to test that 
> you could look at if you wanted to.
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Tom Easterday" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller" 
> Sent: 2015-09-22 01:11:08
> Subject: [Emc-users] lathe G71
> 
>> Does anyone know what became of this discussion in 2012?  
>> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/39104
>> 
>> Was there an G71 implementation done based on remapping?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Tom
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>>
>> When something absolutely has to have a solid connection, whether it's
>> controller to machine, or keyboard to the controller, you just can't
>> beat a good shielded hardware connection between the two.
>>
>> Mark
>
> Chuckle, good, shielded, and hardware.  Pick any 2. :)
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Nuts.  Typo on my part.  "Hardware" shoulda read "hardwire."  ;-)

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 22 September 2015 10:39:05 Mark Wendt wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> >> All it takes is a bit of interference in the band of radios waves
> >> those devices use.  I still prefer hardwired connections rather
> >> than trusting radio waves on stuff like that.  Or, as you
> >> mentioned, the batteries.  It only has to happen once.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >
> > This also is true, but I am not in an industrial environment where
> > such interference is at all common.  Whats in the shop or garage is
> > not of course semi-shielded by the alu siding on this house and
> > would be 10+ db more susceptible.  This is a relatively quiet, 50
> > yards from the city limits residential area, with more electronics
> > here than exists anyplace but a fast food place in the whole town, a
> > physical limit enforced by a huge to me hill that only small
> > children could negotiate, very thick brush, but don't as its also
> > multiflora rose and copperhead country.  So here, that interference
> > has not been a problem. I think that isolation from technology is
> > without a doubt a good thing for me.
> >
> > I have no experience in a busy job shop with 5 or more machines in
> > the same big room.  In the shop in the back yard, the toy mill and
> > the lathe are about 4 feet apart, but the lathe is the only wireless
> > equipt machine.  The operating position of the toy mill is actually
> > above the right end of its table, so I can see it well while jogging
> > with my right hand.  No need for the radios.
> >
> > In the garage with the GO704, I do need to put up a sheet of lexan
> > to deflect airborne swarf between the operating position and the
> > machine as it would help keep swarf out of both the keyboard and my
> > coffee cup. :)
> >
> > OTOH, the spindle motors max at 1 hp here, are the strongest motors
> > involved. All could throw a key on startup plenty hard enough to
> > hurt.
> >
> > Axis motors are more than strong enough to break or crush tools
> > though. I sheared a 4 mm capscrew sunday by leaving something on the
> > bellows I had added to better shield the Y ball screw from debris,
> > so they are certainly capable of crushing a wayward finger.  One of
> > todays projects I think along with finding a fly cutter to level the
> > front of that jig addition installed yesterday. And I need to make
> > some narrow, say 5" wide, binder high pocket shelving additions to
> > the "furniture" for holding gcode manuals and printouts of some of
> > the files so I don't forget what it was I was doing. :)
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Gene,
>
> Like I said, it's my dislike for radio waves in an environment where
> they are the connection between the controller and the machine.  Being
> a radio tech in the USAF, working with both voice radios and ECM gear,
> I know it doesn't take much to disrupt communications, both voice and
> data.  Voice is a little more forgiving than data.  If a voice
> transmission is disrupted/corrupted, you can ask for a repeat.  If a
> data transmission is corrupted, the machine isn't always smart enough
> to ask for a repeat - it may take the corrupted packet as legit.
>
> There may not be any commercial or residential interference nearby
> you, but there's that really big interference generator 93 million
> miles away from your doorstep that appears every day.  ;-)
>
> When something absolutely has to have a solid connection, whether it's
> controller to machine, or keyboard to the controller, you just can't
> beat a good shielded hardware connection between the two.
>
> Mark

Chuckle, good, shielded, and hardware.  Pick any 2. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Off topic. Open CV and Newts

[andy pugh]

A friend is a professional newt-spotter. He is an ecologist who has a
lot of dealings with the Great Crested Newt, a protected species.
Part of his work involves identifying individual newts by their
distinctive orange and black belly markings. He has several hundred
photos to check to figure out which ones are of the same newt.

It seems to me that this would be a good application for machine
vision. Can anyone give pointers to a way to get up and running
quickly with this?

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

2015-09-22 11:19 GMT-03:00 Rick Lair :

> Would something along these lines work?
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-MDA-RGB-CGA-EGA-to-VGA-industrial-Converter-/250851103017?hash=item3a67e41129
>

I guess that board woul work ok since it looks a lot better than mine. If
you have the CGA frequencies you should have no problems.

Mine was the same as this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Arcade-game-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-video-converter-board-HD9800-GBS8200-/170860805754?hash=item27c818fe7a


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Re: [Emc-users] Off topic. Open CV and Newts

[Ralph Stirling]

Octave (open-source clone of Matlab) has an excellent image processing
toolbox.  I think that might be a good place to start.

-- Ralph

From: andy pugh [bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 7:12 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users] Off topic. Open CV and Newts

A friend is a professional newt-spotter. He is an ecologist who has a
lot of dealings with the Great Crested Newt, a protected species.
Part of his work involves identifying individual newts by their
distinctive orange and black belly markings. He has several hundred
photos to check to figure out which ones are of the same newt.

It seems to me that this would be a good application for machine
vision. Can anyone give pointers to a way to get up and running
quickly with this?

--
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Off topic. Open CV and Newts

[Mark Wendt]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 10:12 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> A friend is a professional newt-spotter. He is an ecologist who has a
> lot of dealings with the Great Crested Newt, a protected species.
> Part of his work involves identifying individual newts by their
> distinctive orange and black belly markings. He has several hundred
> photos to check to figure out which ones are of the same newt.
>
> It seems to me that this would be a good application for machine
> vision. Can anyone give pointers to a way to get up and running
> quickly with this?
>
> --
> atp

"Sir Bedevere: What makes you think she's a witch?

Peasant 3: Well, she turned me into a newt!

Sir Bedevere: A newt?

Peasant 3: [meekly after a long pause] ... I got better.

Crowd: [shouts] Burn her anyway!"

Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

Sorry.  I just couldn't he'p meself.  ;-)

Mark


-- 
One Man, One Machine, One Computer!  

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 22 September 2015 10:27:51 Rick Lair wrote:

> Looking at the one print I found for my machine, it looks like Hsync
> 15.87 Khz, and Vsync 54.39 Khz,

I suspect you meant 54.38 Hz.  That would be within the reach of an NTSC 
monitor. Unfortunately those are limited to those tv's with inputs for 
old DVD's and VCR's, neither of which is near sharp enough to do what 
you want.  That would imply a dot frequency in the 15 megahertz region, 
and a GBS8200 video adapter, about 35-40 bucks that the game console 
folks use so they can replace the failing CRT's in the coin-op game 
consoles with modern but vga only LCD monitors.  The inputs on that are 
such that the worst adaptation you might have to do is invert the sync.  
Almost any TTL inverter can handle that.  I don't know how that board 
might react to the 5 Hertz diff in vsync frequency though as the only 
place I have used one is on my Color Computer 3, whose sync was not 100% 
NTSC compatible. Non-interlaced IOW.
>
> Rick
>
> On 9/22/2015 10:23 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > 2015-09-22 11:19 GMT-03:00 Rick Lair :
> >> Would something along these lines work?
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-MDA-RGB-CGA-EGA-to-VGA-industrial
> >>-Converter-/250851103017?hash=item3a67e41129
> >
> > I guess that board woul work ok since it looks a lot better than
> > mine. If you have the CGA frequencies you should have no problems.
> >
> > Mine was the same as this:
> >
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Arcade-game-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-vi
> >deo-converter-board-HD9800-GBS8200-/170860805754?hash=item27c818fe7a


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Also note that VGA works with analog voltages for the RGB and the CRT on
your lathe sure has TTL for the video signal so it wouldn't work without
and adapter board.

2015-09-22 10:56 GMT-03:00 Leonardo Marsaglia :

> Hello Rick.
>
> Sounds like it has the same signals as our Mazak. Probably the working
> frequencies are the same as the CGA old monitors. In our case we replaced
> the old CRT with an old CGA monitor and connected the video signal to one
> of the colors.
>
> But in your case I guess the best would be to get an adapter card from CGA
> to VGA. If you have a scope the best you can do is to measure the frequency
> of both vertical and horizontal and you can be sure that you have the CGA
> values.
>
> Be careful with the adapter boards because I bought one that had problems
> with the input on the CGA port so It wouldn't work. Finally a really nice
> guy named Roy wich I can't remember his website sent to me a board that he
> manufactured for US 45 and worked fine, really well made I have to say. We
> are not using it at the moment because the CRT monitor that we installed is
> working ok but in case of a failure we have the board for replacement.
>
>
> 2015-09-22 10:42 GMT-03:00 Rick Lair :
>
>> Hello Guys,
>>
>> This is off topic for sure, but knew of no better place to ask with all
>> the electronics knowledge floating around here.
>>
>> On our big vertical lathe, it has an old 9" CRT that is starting to give
>> us troubles, and I would like to convert it to an LCD, the only problem
>> is, that I am having a hard time figuring out the signaling going to the
>> new monitor. It is a Fanuc control, so it has a Honda 20 pin male
>> connector going to the CRT unit, which I scavenged up the diagram for
>> the pin-out. I have 20 pin female connectors here already, so I can make
>> a patch cable to VGA to connect it to the new monitor, but the signals
>> are different from one to another. The current CRT has Hsync, Vsync, and
>> a single wire Video signal, along with three 0V wires in the harness,
>> and on a separate connector, the power for the monitor. But a standard
>> VGA has Red, Green, Blue, then Hsync, and Vsync, and a few GRD
>> connections.
>>
>> Maybe I need a signal converter, I have found quite a few of them on
>> eBay, or can I just make up a cable and run with it?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Rick Lair
>> Superior Roll & Turning LLC
>> 399 East Center Street
>> Petersburg MI, 49270
>> PH: 734-279-1831
>> FAX: 734-279-1166
>> www.superiorroll.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Leonardo Marsaglia*.
>



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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 22 September 2015 09:36:24 Mark Wendt wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 22 September 2015 05:46:42 Mark Wendt wrote:
> >> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Gregg Eshelman
> >> 
> >
> > wrote:
> >> > The trick is to achieve transparency of operation so that GCODE
> >> > and commands for start, stop, E-stop etc sent to the LCNC server
> >> > and feedback returned to the client operates seamlessly and
> >> > without interference with the micro-system actually operating the
> >> > CNC machine.
> >>
> >> That.
> >>
> >> That's the biggest concern I have for a heavy machine, spinning
> >> sharp objects, and whoops!  The wireless went down.  Or the wired
> >> switch decided to take a dump.
> >>
> >> Those reasons are why I don't use wireless or bluetooth keyboards,
> >> mice and pendants.  A hard wire connect to a single computer
> >> running the code to me is just the safest way of doing things. 
> >> Drip feed by DNC is okay, that's a horse of a different course.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >
> > And I haven't had a wireless mouse or keyboard that if the batteries
> > were good, did anything but work.  The keyboard in particular is
> > extremely handy without the distance limiting cord, as I can pick it
> > up off its normal resting place about 3 deet from the machine, carry
> > it over and park it on the Y motor when I am setting up for the next
> > operation.
> >
> > >From where I sit at the operating position Z is the only axis I can
> > > see
> >
> > well enough when jogging. So I either need to get a camera, and
> > camview and align setup and calibrated, or go over to the machine
> > with the keyboard.  As for batteries failing, I've not had them fail
> > in anything but the key up position.  Ever.
> >
> > Now, if I could just find a fitted cover for a logitech K360
> > keyboard to keep the swarf and coffee drippings out of it.  I find
> > that even with the square sided keys, swarf can jam it.
> >
> > YMMV of course.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> All it takes is a bit of interference in the band of radios waves
> those devices use.  I still prefer hardwired connections rather than
> trusting radio waves on stuff like that.  Or, as you mentioned, the
> batteries.  It only has to happen once.
>
> Mark

This also is true, but I am not in an industrial environment where such 
interference is at all common.  Whats in the shop or garage is not of 
course semi-shielded by the alu siding on this house and would be 10+ db 
more susceptible.  This is a relatively quiet, 50 yards from the city 
limits residential area, with more electronics here than exists anyplace 
but a fast food place in the whole town, a physical limit enforced by a 
huge to me hill that only small children could negotiate, very thick 
brush, but don't as its also multiflora rose and copperhead country.  So 
here, that interference has not been a problem. I think that isolation 
from technology is without a doubt a good thing for me.

I have no experience in a busy job shop with 5 or more machines in the 
same big room.  In the shop in the back yard, the toy mill and the lathe 
are about 4 feet apart, but the lathe is the only wireless equipt 
machine.  The operating position of the toy mill is actually above the 
right end of its table, so I can see it well while jogging with my right 
hand.  No need for the radios.

In the garage with the GO704, I do need to put up a sheet of lexan to 
deflect airborne swarf between the operating position and the machine as 
it would help keep swarf out of both the keyboard and my coffee cup. :)

OTOH, the spindle motors max at 1 hp here, are the strongest motors 
involved. All could throw a key on startup plenty hard enough to hurt.

Axis motors are more than strong enough to break or crush tools though. I 
sheared a 4 mm capscrew sunday by leaving something on the bellows I had 
added to better shield the Y ball screw from debris, so they are 
certainly capable of crushing a wayward finger.  One of todays projects 
I think along with finding a fly cutter to level the front of that jig 
addition installed yesterday. And I need to make some narrow, say 5" 
wide, binder high pocket shelving additions to the "furniture" for 
holding gcode manuals and printouts of some of the files so I don't 
forget what it was I was doing. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Off topic. Open CV and Newts

[Karlsson & Wang]

Opencv http://opencv.org/ is the one i heard about. I am currently unemployed 
but have no experience with this, if not paid I am also busy with other things.



On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:12:22 +0100
andy pugh  wrote:

> A friend is a professional newt-spotter. He is an ecologist who has a
> lot of dealings with the Great Crested Newt, a protected species.
> Part of his work involves identifying individual newts by their
> distinctive orange and black belly markings. He has several hundred
> photos to check to figure out which ones are of the same newt.
> 
> It seems to me that this would be a good application for machine
> vision. Can anyone give pointers to a way to get up and running
> quickly with this?
> 
> -- 
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Lester Caine]

On 22/09/15 15:27, Rick Lair wrote:
> Looking at the one print I found for my machine, it looks like Hsync 
> 15.87 Khz, and Vsync 54.39 Khz,

Hopefully Vsync is 54Hz ... needs to be substantially less than HSync.
The quick trick used to be hooking up the H and V to the VGA monitor,
and then simply wiring R, G and B together to give you a 'white' signal,
but modern monitors tend to be a little less forgiving with lower
frequency signals, but it should lock at 15.87KHz so I'd just give it a go.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Hello Rick.

Sounds like it has the same signals as our Mazak. Probably the working
frequencies are the same as the CGA old monitors. In our case we replaced
the old CRT with an old CGA monitor and connected the video signal to one
of the colors.

But in your case I guess the best would be to get an adapter card from CGA
to VGA. If you have a scope the best you can do is to measure the frequency
of both vertical and horizontal and you can be sure that you have the CGA
values.

Be careful with the adapter boards because I bought one that had problems
with the input on the CGA port so It wouldn't work. Finally a really nice
guy named Roy wich I can't remember his website sent to me a board that he
manufactured for US 45 and worked fine, really well made I have to say. We
are not using it at the moment because the CRT monitor that we installed is
working ok but in case of a failure we have the board for replacement.


2015-09-22 10:42 GMT-03:00 Rick Lair :

> Hello Guys,
>
> This is off topic for sure, but knew of no better place to ask with all
> the electronics knowledge floating around here.
>
> On our big vertical lathe, it has an old 9" CRT that is starting to give
> us troubles, and I would like to convert it to an LCD, the only problem
> is, that I am having a hard time figuring out the signaling going to the
> new monitor. It is a Fanuc control, so it has a Honda 20 pin male
> connector going to the CRT unit, which I scavenged up the diagram for
> the pin-out. I have 20 pin female connectors here already, so I can make
> a patch cable to VGA to connect it to the new monitor, but the signals
> are different from one to another. The current CRT has Hsync, Vsync, and
> a single wire Video signal, along with three 0V wires in the harness,
> and on a separate connector, the power for the monitor. But a standard
> VGA has Red, Green, Blue, then Hsync, and Vsync, and a few GRD connections.
>
> Maybe I need a signal converter, I have found quite a few of them on
> eBay, or can I just make up a cable and run with it?
>
> --
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Rick Lair
> Superior Roll & Turning LLC
> 399 East Center Street
> Petersburg MI, 49270
> PH: 734-279-1831
> FAX: 734-279-1166
> www.superiorroll.com
>
>
>
> --
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Rick Lair]

Would something along these lines work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-MDA-RGB-CGA-EGA-to-VGA-industrial-Converter-/250851103017?hash=item3a67e41129

On 9/22/2015 10:00 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> Also note that VGA works with analog voltages for the RGB and the CRT on
> your lathe sure has TTL for the video signal so it wouldn't work without
> and adapter board.
>
> 2015-09-22 10:56 GMT-03:00 Leonardo Marsaglia > :
>> Hello Rick.
>>
>> Sounds like it has the same signals as our Mazak. Probably the working
>> frequencies are the same as the CGA old monitors. In our case we replaced
>> the old CRT with an old CGA monitor and connected the video signal to one
>> of the colors.
>>
>> But in your case I guess the best would be to get an adapter card from CGA
>> to VGA. If you have a scope the best you can do is to measure the frequency
>> of both vertical and horizontal and you can be sure that you have the CGA
>> values.
>>
>> Be careful with the adapter boards because I bought one that had problems
>> with the input on the CGA port so It wouldn't work. Finally a really nice
>> guy named Roy wich I can't remember his website sent to me a board that he
>> manufactured for US 45 and worked fine, really well made I have to say. We
>> are not using it at the moment because the CRT monitor that we installed is
>> working ok but in case of a failure we have the board for replacement.
>>
>>
>> 2015-09-22 10:42 GMT-03:00 Rick Lair :
>>
>>> Hello Guys,
>>>
>>> This is off topic for sure, but knew of no better place to ask with all
>>> the electronics knowledge floating around here.
>>>
>>> On our big vertical lathe, it has an old 9" CRT that is starting to give
>>> us troubles, and I would like to convert it to an LCD, the only problem
>>> is, that I am having a hard time figuring out the signaling going to the
>>> new monitor. It is a Fanuc control, so it has a Honda 20 pin male
>>> connector going to the CRT unit, which I scavenged up the diagram for
>>> the pin-out. I have 20 pin female connectors here already, so I can make
>>> a patch cable to VGA to connect it to the new monitor, but the signals
>>> are different from one to another. The current CRT has Hsync, Vsync, and
>>> a single wire Video signal, along with three 0V wires in the harness,
>>> and on a separate connector, the power for the monitor. But a standard
>>> VGA has Red, Green, Blue, then Hsync, and Vsync, and a few GRD
>>> connections.
>>>
>>> Maybe I need a signal converter, I have found quite a few of them on
>>> eBay, or can I just make up a cable and run with it?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick Lair
>>> Superior Roll & Turning LLC
>>> 399 East Center Street
>>> Petersburg MI, 49270
>>> PH: 734-279-1831
>>> FAX: 734-279-1166
>>> www.superiorroll.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Leonardo Marsaglia*.
>>
>
>

-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Rick Lair]

Looking at the one print I found for my machine, it looks like Hsync 
15.87 Khz, and Vsync 54.39 Khz,


Rick

On 9/22/2015 10:23 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> 2015-09-22 11:19 GMT-03:00 Rick Lair :
>
>> Would something along these lines work?
>>
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-MDA-RGB-CGA-EGA-to-VGA-industrial-Converter-/250851103017?hash=item3a67e41129
>>
> I guess that board woul work ok since it looks a lot better than mine. If
> you have the CGA frequencies you should have no problems.
>
> Mine was the same as this:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Arcade-game-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-video-converter-board-HD9800-GBS8200-/170860805754?hash=item27c818fe7a
>
>

-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Off topic. Open CV and Newts

[TJoseph Powderly]

On 09/22/2015 09:12 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> A friend is a professional newt-spotter. He is an ecologist who has a
> lot of dealings with the Great Crested Newt, a protected species.
> Part of his work involves identifying individual newts by their
> distinctive orange and black belly markings. He has several hundred
> photos to check to figure out which ones are of the same newt.
>
> It seems to me that this would be a good application for machine
> vision. Can anyone give pointers to a way to get up and running
> quickly with this?
>
try gussie-finknottle.com ? ( see PGWodehouse anyway ;) tomp

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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>>
>> All it takes is a bit of interference in the band of radios waves
>> those devices use.  I still prefer hardwired connections rather than
>> trusting radio waves on stuff like that.  Or, as you mentioned, the
>> batteries.  It only has to happen once.
>>
>> Mark
>
> This also is true, but I am not in an industrial environment where such
> interference is at all common.  Whats in the shop or garage is not of
> course semi-shielded by the alu siding on this house and would be 10+ db
> more susceptible.  This is a relatively quiet, 50 yards from the city
> limits residential area, with more electronics here than exists anyplace
> but a fast food place in the whole town, a physical limit enforced by a
> huge to me hill that only small children could negotiate, very thick
> brush, but don't as its also multiflora rose and copperhead country.  So
> here, that interference has not been a problem. I think that isolation
> from technology is without a doubt a good thing for me.
>
> I have no experience in a busy job shop with 5 or more machines in the
> same big room.  In the shop in the back yard, the toy mill and the lathe
> are about 4 feet apart, but the lathe is the only wireless equipt
> machine.  The operating position of the toy mill is actually above the
> right end of its table, so I can see it well while jogging with my right
> hand.  No need for the radios.
>
> In the garage with the GO704, I do need to put up a sheet of lexan to
> deflect airborne swarf between the operating position and the machine as
> it would help keep swarf out of both the keyboard and my coffee cup. :)
>
> OTOH, the spindle motors max at 1 hp here, are the strongest motors
> involved. All could throw a key on startup plenty hard enough to hurt.
>
> Axis motors are more than strong enough to break or crush tools though. I
> sheared a 4 mm capscrew sunday by leaving something on the bellows I had
> added to better shield the Y ball screw from debris, so they are
> certainly capable of crushing a wayward finger.  One of todays projects
> I think along with finding a fly cutter to level the front of that jig
> addition installed yesterday. And I need to make some narrow, say 5"
> wide, binder high pocket shelving additions to the "furniture" for
> holding gcode manuals and printouts of some of the files so I don't
> forget what it was I was doing. :)
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Gene,

Like I said, it's my dislike for radio waves in an environment where
they are the connection between the controller and the machine.  Being
a radio tech in the USAF, working with both voice radios and ECM gear,
I know it doesn't take much to disrupt communications, both voice and
data.  Voice is a little more forgiving than data.  If a voice
transmission is disrupted/corrupted, you can ask for a repeat.  If a
data transmission is corrupted, the machine isn't always smart enough
to ask for a repeat - it may take the corrupted packet as legit.

There may not be any commercial or residential interference nearby
you, but there's that really big interference generator 93 million
miles away from your doorstep that appears every day.  ;-)

When something absolutely has to have a solid connection, whether it's
controller to machine, or keyboard to the controller, you just can't
beat a good shielded hardware connection between the two.

Mark

-- 
One Man, One Machine, One Computer!  

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 22 September 2015 09:42:51 Rick Lair wrote:

> Hello Guys,
>
> This is off topic for sure, but knew of no better place to ask with
> all the electronics knowledge floating around here.
>
> On our big vertical lathe, it has an old 9" CRT that is starting to
> give us troubles, and I would like to convert it to an LCD, the only
> problem is, that I am having a hard time figuring out the signaling
> going to the new monitor. It is a Fanuc control, so it has a Honda 20
> pin male connector going to the CRT unit, which I scavenged up the
> diagram for the pin-out. I have 20 pin female connectors here already,
> so I can make a patch cable to VGA to connect it to the new monitor,
> but the signals are different from one to another. The current CRT has
> Hsync, Vsync, and a single wire Video signal, along with three 0V
> wires in the harness, and on a separate connector, the power for the
> monitor. But a standard VGA has Red, Green, Blue, then Hsync, and
> Vsync, and a few GRD connections.
>
> Maybe I need a signal converter, I have found quite a few of them on
> eBay, or can I just make up a cable and run with it?

Those 0 volt wires are more than likely shielding returns to be grounded 
and could likely be combined at the grounded terminal of the db15, so 
you could probably knock out a merging pcb on the mill in half an hour 
or so. The 9" I have to assume was black & white?  That, in todays all 
color lcd's might have to be buffered with a gain control and 
resistively fed to all 3 colors on the vga cable.  See the TI opamp 
selections for the buffer as they have a good selection of video speed 
opamps that can run on a single 5 volt supply, for something in the sub 
$2 price.  I used several of them as replacements for a custom circuit 
in a GVG video switcher that the Grass Valley Group wanted $1500 a copy 
for, and they were actually faster than theirs was.  15 Years ago, so 
the stuff is available.  I'd quote the Jedec number but have forgotten 
it.

You want a single 5volt supply unit with a gain/bandwidth product of a 
about a gigahertz for that.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Off topic. Open CV and Newts

[andy pugh]

On 22 September 2015 at 15:26, TJoseph Powderly  wrote:
> try gussie-finknottle.com ? ( see PGWodehouse anyway ;) tomp

I do actually recognise the reference, but Gussie and his
newt-bothering ways would be illegal in modern times.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Convert CRT to LCD

[Rick Lair]

Yep 54 hz, not khz, very poor writing on the print that denotes that.



On 9/22/2015 10:51 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 22 September 2015 10:27:51 Rick Lair wrote:
>
>> Looking at the one print I found for my machine, it looks like Hsync
>> 15.87 Khz, and Vsync 54.39 Khz,
> I suspect you meant 54.38 Hz.  That would be within the reach of an NTSC
> monitor. Unfortunately those are limited to those tv's with inputs for
> old DVD's and VCR's, neither of which is near sharp enough to do what
> you want.  That would imply a dot frequency in the 15 megahertz region,
> and a GBS8200 video adapter, about 35-40 bucks that the game console
> folks use so they can replace the failing CRT's in the coin-op game
> consoles with modern but vga only LCD monitors.  The inputs on that are
> such that the worst adaptation you might have to do is invert the sync.
> Almost any TTL inverter can handle that.  I don't know how that board
> might react to the 5 Hertz diff in vsync frequency though as the only
> place I have used one is on my Color Computer 3, whose sync was not 100%
> NTSC compatible. Non-interlaced IOW.
>> Rick
>>
>> On 9/22/2015 10:23 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
>>> 2015-09-22 11:19 GMT-03:00 Rick Lair :
 Would something along these lines work?


 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-MDA-RGB-CGA-EGA-to-VGA-industrial
 -Converter-/250851103017?hash=item3a67e41129
>>> I guess that board woul work ok since it looks a lot better than
>>> mine. If you have the CGA frequencies you should have no problems.
>>>
>>> Mine was the same as this:
>>>
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Arcade-game-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-vi
>>> deo-converter-board-HD9800-GBS8200-/170860805754?hash=item27c818fe7a
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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