Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC

[Danny Miller]

Leadshine drives input/output are not just opto, they're differential.  
i.e. the step signal has 2 wires and dir has 2 wires, there's no common 
ground or common anode.  So they're not just galvoisolated from the 
pulse source, but from each other.

When run as twisted pairs or just pairs, the noise immunity is greater 
than you'd ever need.

You are still going to tie them together as common-gnd or common-anode 
at the pulse source, but the differential-pair part that creates is 
important.

Fiber optic requires serialization, added a lot of new complexity and 
latency, for no real benefit.

Danny


On 4/20/2017 3:10 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> Yes.  The linked device acts just like 1/2 of a 3.3 volt opto isolator.
>
> However there are devices LIKE it that cost 1/10 as much, run on 5
> volts are faster and use consumer grade cables.
>
> But the ability to use un-terminated fiber cable cut from a bulk
> spool.  It is worth paying more for that.
>
> I'm wondering WHY?  Is it for galvanic isolation?  A small opto device
> does that.  Is it for noise impunity, shielded differential twisted
> pair cable does that really well.  Normal 100BaseT  Ethernet is
> already differential and isolated.  The normal engineering method is
> to first spec a requirement THEN look for parts.  This saves a lot of
> work compared to doing it the other way around.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Ken Strauss  
> wrote:
>> Could something like
>> https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/afbr-1528cz/66628 be useful?
>> They are about $12 each but operate at 5Mbps so perhaps you could multiplex
>> some of the signals. There is also an eval kit
>> https://www.digikey.com/products/en/development-boards-kits-programmers/eval
>> uation-and-demonstration-boards-and-kits/787?k=hfbr-1506amz  You can get
>> 10-foot fibre patch cables with SMA terminations to avoid making your own.
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:51 PM
>>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC
>>>
>>> On Thursday 20 April 2017 11:22:03 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>>>
 Fanuc has been using fiber optic connections for more than 30 years.
 And I work with an old SCM machine with a Num 1040 control that has a
 bank of fiber optic remote io that is one of the things holding me
 back from trying to convert it to Linuxcnc.

>>> This has been a wish of mine for a long time.  We need some cheap stuff
>> that
>>> can be the equ of an opto-isolator, but with a piece of glass or plastic
>> fiber up
>>> to several feet long as the optical media between them.
>>> With power on the rx end, signal losses in the plastic fiber could be
>> easily
>>> compensated. I can visualize stepper drivers incorporating it, probably at
>> no
>>> more cost for the pair of fiber sockets than they cost for the full opto-
>>> isolation BOM right now.
>>>
>>> All we would need would be an HE IR LED with a molded in funnel to guide
>> the
>>> fiber tip to the chip face in the LED.  Some sort of a jacket on the fiber
>> to
>>> prolong its life if rubbing on something, or to prevent optical crosstalk
>> would
>>> be needed. The major design problem AISI is in gripping the fiber to
>> anchor it
>>> at both ends, with long term gripping pressure imprinting itself on the
>> fiber
>>> creating radiation leaks.  Even glass will do that, but usually over time
>> frames
>>> that exceed the life of the rest of the machine since technically, glass
>> is a
>>> super-cooled liquid, flowing visibly over the lifetime of the observer.
>>>
>>> The led makers have now had 40+ years to design such a package, and I fail
>> to
>>> understand why it has not happened.
>>>
>>> Or has it, and I missed the announcement?  Thats a plausible excuse given
>> my
>>> age and retired status. If anybody would have it on this side of the pond,
>>> digikey, and I've only found one candidate so far. Intended to be a
>> remoteable
>>> indicator, the led is conventional shaped, available in several colors.
>> Pricing
>>> starts at $2.15 with a 6" light pipe, Available up to 3940" long. :) With
>> the far
>>> end of that pipe facing into an avalanche mode transistor, mounted exactly
>>> the same as the led, and substituted for the BOM that puts the
>> opto-isolation
>>> into the stepper drivers input circuits, it ought to be essentially free!
>> What
>>> sort of speed would have TBD.  But I'd certainly have to think its faster
>> than
>>> the 200 to 300 kilohertz we can now drive a $35 M542 stepper driver.
>>>
>>> Look at 
>>>
>>> And see what you think of it.
>>>
>>> One of those in red led, looking at one of these:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Would I think, be a good test bed. Need some smd bypassing of the rx
>> supply,
>>> and I'm not sure what 

Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC

[Chris Albertson]

Yes.  The linked device acts just like 1/2 of a 3.3 volt opto isolator.

However there are devices LIKE it that cost 1/10 as much, run on 5
volts are faster and use consumer grade cables.

But the ability to use un-terminated fiber cable cut from a bulk
spool.  It is worth paying more for that.

I'm wondering WHY?  Is it for galvanic isolation?  A small opto device
does that.  Is it for noise impunity, shielded differential twisted
pair cable does that really well.  Normal 100BaseT  Ethernet is
already differential and isolated.  The normal engineering method is
to first spec a requirement THEN look for parts.  This saves a lot of
work compared to doing it the other way around.




On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Ken Strauss  wrote:
> Could something like
> https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/afbr-1528cz/66628 be useful?
> They are about $12 each but operate at 5Mbps so perhaps you could multiplex
> some of the signals. There is also an eval kit
> https://www.digikey.com/products/en/development-boards-kits-programmers/eval
> uation-and-demonstration-boards-and-kits/787?k=hfbr-1506amz  You can get
> 10-foot fibre patch cables with SMA terminations to avoid making your own.
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:51 PM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC
>>
>> On Thursday 20 April 2017 11:22:03 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>>
>> > Fanuc has been using fiber optic connections for more than 30 years.
>> > And I work with an old SCM machine with a Num 1040 control that has a
>> > bank of fiber optic remote io that is one of the things holding me
>> > back from trying to convert it to Linuxcnc.
>> >
>> This has been a wish of mine for a long time.  We need some cheap stuff
> that
>> can be the equ of an opto-isolator, but with a piece of glass or plastic
> fiber up
>> to several feet long as the optical media between them.
>> With power on the rx end, signal losses in the plastic fiber could be
> easily
>> compensated. I can visualize stepper drivers incorporating it, probably at
> no
>> more cost for the pair of fiber sockets than they cost for the full opto-
>> isolation BOM right now.
>>
>> All we would need would be an HE IR LED with a molded in funnel to guide
> the
>> fiber tip to the chip face in the LED.  Some sort of a jacket on the fiber
> to
>> prolong its life if rubbing on something, or to prevent optical crosstalk
> would
>> be needed. The major design problem AISI is in gripping the fiber to
> anchor it
>> at both ends, with long term gripping pressure imprinting itself on the
> fiber
>> creating radiation leaks.  Even glass will do that, but usually over time
> frames
>> that exceed the life of the rest of the machine since technically, glass
> is a
>> super-cooled liquid, flowing visibly over the lifetime of the observer.
>>
>> The led makers have now had 40+ years to design such a package, and I fail
> to
>> understand why it has not happened.
>>
>> Or has it, and I missed the announcement?  Thats a plausible excuse given
> my
>> age and retired status. If anybody would have it on this side of the pond,
>> digikey, and I've only found one candidate so far. Intended to be a
> remoteable
>> indicator, the led is conventional shaped, available in several colors.
> Pricing
>> starts at $2.15 with a 6" light pipe, Available up to 3940" long. :) With
> the far
>> end of that pipe facing into an avalanche mode transistor, mounted exactly
>> the same as the led, and substituted for the BOM that puts the
> opto-isolation
>> into the stepper drivers input circuits, it ought to be essentially free!
> What
>> sort of speed would have TBD.  But I'd certainly have to think its faster
> than
>> the 200 to 300 kilohertz we can now drive a $35 M542 stepper driver.
>>
>> Look at 
>>
>> And see what you think of it.
>>
>> One of those in red led, looking at one of these:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Would I think, be a good test bed. Need some smd bypassing of the rx
> supply,
>> and I'm not sure what buffering might be needed to make it actually drive
> the
>> opto's in the stepper driver.  Pulse time distortions are quite small and
> the
>> data rate can be as high as 16 megabaud.
>>
>> Now if I can find where to source the fiber cable it uses in say 10'
>> pieces, I could try it out in this lathe conversion. With 10 40"
>> assemblies, I could put feet and sheet metal between the pi-7i90 and the
>> noise makers already installed.  With 30 of them I could replace the
> copper
>> leaving the pi's box, except for the power cord, with fiber, and enjoy the
>> peace and quiet.
>>
>> And I've got Dennis Strander at DigiKey furiously sending out requests for
>> more info. W/O the fibers, we're under a $5 bill a connection so far. I
> can live
>> with that.  

Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC

[Ken Strauss]

Also look at
http://media.digikey.com/pdf/data%20sheets/toshiba%20pdfs/fiber-optic%20devi
ces%20toslink.pdf


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:51 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC
>
> On Thursday 20 April 2017 11:22:03 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
> > Fanuc has been using fiber optic connections for more than 30 years.
> > And I work with an old SCM machine with a Num 1040 control that has a
> > bank of fiber optic remote io that is one of the things holding me
> > back from trying to convert it to Linuxcnc.
> >
> This has been a wish of mine for a long time.  We need some cheap stuff
that
> can be the equ of an opto-isolator, but with a piece of glass or plastic
fiber up
> to several feet long as the optical media between them.
> With power on the rx end, signal losses in the plastic fiber could be
easily
> compensated. I can visualize stepper drivers incorporating it, probably at
no
> more cost for the pair of fiber sockets than they cost for the full opto-
> isolation BOM right now.
>
> All we would need would be an HE IR LED with a molded in funnel to guide
the
> fiber tip to the chip face in the LED.  Some sort of a jacket on the fiber
to
> prolong its life if rubbing on something, or to prevent optical crosstalk
would
> be needed. The major design problem AISI is in gripping the fiber to
anchor it
> at both ends, with long term gripping pressure imprinting itself on the
fiber
> creating radiation leaks.  Even glass will do that, but usually over time
frames
> that exceed the life of the rest of the machine since technically, glass
is a
> super-cooled liquid, flowing visibly over the lifetime of the observer.
>
> The led makers have now had 40+ years to design such a package, and I fail
to
> understand why it has not happened.
>
> Or has it, and I missed the announcement?  Thats a plausible excuse given
my
> age and retired status. If anybody would have it on this side of the pond,
> digikey, and I've only found one candidate so far. Intended to be a
remoteable
> indicator, the led is conventional shaped, available in several colors.
Pricing
> starts at $2.15 with a 6" light pipe, Available up to 3940" long. :) With
the far
> end of that pipe facing into an avalanche mode transistor, mounted exactly
> the same as the led, and substituted for the BOM that puts the
opto-isolation
> into the stepper drivers input circuits, it ought to be essentially free!
What
> sort of speed would have TBD.  But I'd certainly have to think its faster
than
> the 200 to 300 kilohertz we can now drive a $35 M542 stepper driver.
>
> Look at 
>
> And see what you think of it.
>
> One of those in red led, looking at one of these:
>
> 
>
> Would I think, be a good test bed. Need some smd bypassing of the rx
supply,
> and I'm not sure what buffering might be needed to make it actually drive
the
> opto's in the stepper driver.  Pulse time distortions are quite small and
the
> data rate can be as high as 16 megabaud.
>
> Now if I can find where to source the fiber cable it uses in say 10'
> pieces, I could try it out in this lathe conversion. With 10 40"
> assemblies, I could put feet and sheet metal between the pi-7i90 and the
> noise makers already installed.  With 30 of them I could replace the
copper
> leaving the pi's box, except for the power cord, with fiber, and enjoy the
> peace and quiet.
>
> And I've got Dennis Strander at DigiKey furiously sending out requests for
> more info. W/O the fibers, we're under a $5 bill a connection so far. I
can live
> with that.  We'll see what falls out of my email box in the next few
hours.
>
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Gregg Eshelman" 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017
> > 4:39:08 AM
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC
> >
> > Looks interesting. Can't have a ground loop when there's no wires.
> > http://hackaday.com/2016/03/20/add-fiber-optic-control-to-your-cnc/
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> >most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> >most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC

[Ken Strauss]

Could something like
https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/afbr-1528cz/66628 be useful?
They are about $12 each but operate at 5Mbps so perhaps you could multiplex
some of the signals. There is also an eval kit
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/development-boards-kits-programmers/eval
uation-and-demonstration-boards-and-kits/787?k=hfbr-1506amz  You can get
10-foot fibre patch cables with SMA terminations to avoid making your own.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:51 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC
>
> On Thursday 20 April 2017 11:22:03 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
> > Fanuc has been using fiber optic connections for more than 30 years.
> > And I work with an old SCM machine with a Num 1040 control that has a
> > bank of fiber optic remote io that is one of the things holding me
> > back from trying to convert it to Linuxcnc.
> >
> This has been a wish of mine for a long time.  We need some cheap stuff
that
> can be the equ of an opto-isolator, but with a piece of glass or plastic
fiber up
> to several feet long as the optical media between them.
> With power on the rx end, signal losses in the plastic fiber could be
easily
> compensated. I can visualize stepper drivers incorporating it, probably at
no
> more cost for the pair of fiber sockets than they cost for the full opto-
> isolation BOM right now.
>
> All we would need would be an HE IR LED with a molded in funnel to guide
the
> fiber tip to the chip face in the LED.  Some sort of a jacket on the fiber
to
> prolong its life if rubbing on something, or to prevent optical crosstalk
would
> be needed. The major design problem AISI is in gripping the fiber to
anchor it
> at both ends, with long term gripping pressure imprinting itself on the
fiber
> creating radiation leaks.  Even glass will do that, but usually over time
frames
> that exceed the life of the rest of the machine since technically, glass
is a
> super-cooled liquid, flowing visibly over the lifetime of the observer.
>
> The led makers have now had 40+ years to design such a package, and I fail
to
> understand why it has not happened.
>
> Or has it, and I missed the announcement?  Thats a plausible excuse given
my
> age and retired status. If anybody would have it on this side of the pond,
> digikey, and I've only found one candidate so far. Intended to be a
remoteable
> indicator, the led is conventional shaped, available in several colors.
Pricing
> starts at $2.15 with a 6" light pipe, Available up to 3940" long. :) With
the far
> end of that pipe facing into an avalanche mode transistor, mounted exactly
> the same as the led, and substituted for the BOM that puts the
opto-isolation
> into the stepper drivers input circuits, it ought to be essentially free!
What
> sort of speed would have TBD.  But I'd certainly have to think its faster
than
> the 200 to 300 kilohertz we can now drive a $35 M542 stepper driver.
>
> Look at 
>
> And see what you think of it.
>
> One of those in red led, looking at one of these:
>
> 
>
> Would I think, be a good test bed. Need some smd bypassing of the rx
supply,
> and I'm not sure what buffering might be needed to make it actually drive
the
> opto's in the stepper driver.  Pulse time distortions are quite small and
the
> data rate can be as high as 16 megabaud.
>
> Now if I can find where to source the fiber cable it uses in say 10'
> pieces, I could try it out in this lathe conversion. With 10 40"
> assemblies, I could put feet and sheet metal between the pi-7i90 and the
> noise makers already installed.  With 30 of them I could replace the
copper
> leaving the pi's box, except for the power cord, with fiber, and enjoy the
> peace and quiet.
>
> And I've got Dennis Strander at DigiKey furiously sending out requests for
> more info. W/O the fibers, we're under a $5 bill a connection so far. I
can live
> with that.  We'll see what falls out of my email box in the next few
hours.
>
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Gregg Eshelman" 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017
> > 4:39:08 AM
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC
> >
> > Looks interesting. Can't have a ground loop when there's no wires.
> > http://hackaday.com/2016/03/20/add-fiber-optic-control-to-your-cnc/
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> >most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC

[Chris Albertson]

Fiber optics is not hard to use.   One of the easiest systems is the
one used for audio cables in your TV set and stereo.  they call it
Toslink digital audio or S/PDIF.  You buy the cables with ends
attached at Best Buy or way-cheeper at monoprice.com   Using a
consumer cable makes it easy to buy and cheap.

The sockets you need on both ends are active 5 volt devices that act
like TTL buffer chips or like opto isolators.  Place a 5V logic signal
in one end and it comes out the other.  The sockets are mass produced
for the consumer market and are not expensive, about a buck each end.
  Can go about 20MHz   Toshiba makes them and I'd guess others too.
Digikey, Mouser and other sell them.  They work EXACTLY like opto
isolators.

There is another kind of fiber you can buy cheap and easy that is
intended for Ethernet.   This is another mass market product that is
easy to find.   Bt you can't cable the cables at Best Buy and it costs
more but this system goes up to 1 GHz if you buy the right kind

You want a system where the cables are available at retail outlets and
are already cut and terminated at each end.Toslink uses cheap
plastic cable and is limited length.  But I've used the Ethernet kind
and we bought it on a two kilometer spool.  Terminating bulk glass
fiber is a skill, about as hard as hand soldering BNC or N connectors
on coax.

Possible the BEST why to use fiber for CNC that would require zero
modifications and using only off the shelf stuff is to get an Ethernet
linked Mesa FPGA board and use a fiber segment to connect the Mesa
card to the PC. But WHY???  Cat 5 wired Ethernet is already
galvanically isolated using tiny transformers on each end.   THAT is
one of the best parts of Ethernet.  But fiber is even lightening proof
if you need that.


On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 11:51 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Thursday 20 April 2017 11:22:03 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
>> Fanuc has been using fiber optic connections for more than 30 years.
>> And I work with an old SCM machine with a Num 1040 control that has a
>> bank of fiber optic remote io that is one of the things holding me
>> back from trying to convert it to Linuxcnc.
>>
> This has been a wish of mine for a long time.  We need some cheap stuff
> that can be the equ of an opto-isolator, but with a piece of glass or
> plastic fiber up to several feet long as the optical media between them.
> With power on the rx end, signal losses in the plastic fiber could be
> easily compensated. I can visualize stepper drivers incorporating it,
> probably at no more cost for the pair of fiber sockets than they cost
> for the full opto-isolation BOM right now.
>
> All we would need would be an HE IR LED with a molded in funnel to guide
> the fiber tip to the chip face in the LED.  Some sort of a jacket on the
> fiber to prolong its life if rubbing on something, or to prevent optical
> crosstalk would be needed. The major design problem AISI is in gripping
> the fiber to anchor it at both ends, with long term gripping pressure
> imprinting itself on the fiber creating radiation leaks.  Even glass
> will do that, but usually over time frames that exceed the life of the
> rest of the machine since technically, glass is a super-cooled liquid,
> flowing visibly over the lifetime of the observer.
>
> The led makers have now had 40+ years to design such a package, and I
> fail to understand why it has not happened.
>
> Or has it, and I missed the announcement?  Thats a plausible excuse given
> my age and retired status. If anybody would have it on this side of the
> pond, digikey, and I've only found one candidate so far. Intended to be
> a remoteable indicator, the led is conventional shaped, available in
> several colors.  Pricing starts at $2.15 with a 6" light pipe, Available
> up to 3940" long. :) With the far end of that pipe facing into an
> avalanche mode transistor, mounted exactly the same as the led, and
> substituted for the BOM that puts the opto-isolation into the stepper
> drivers input circuits, it ought to be essentially free! What sort of
> speed would have TBD.  But I'd certainly have to think its faster than
> the 200 to 300 kilohertz we can now drive a $35 M542 stepper driver.
>
> Look at 
>
> And see what you think of it.
>
> One of those in red led, looking at one of these:
>
> 
>
> Would I think, be a good test bed. Need some smd bypassing of the rx
> supply, and I'm not sure what buffering might be needed to make it
> actually drive the opto's in the stepper driver.  Pulse time distortions
> are quite small and the data rate can be as high as 16 megabaud.
>
> Now if I can find where to source the fiber cable it uses in say 10'
> pieces, I could try it out in this lathe conversion. With 10 40"
> assemblies, I could put feet and sheet metal between the pi-7i90 and the
> noise makers already installed.  With 30 of 

Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 20 April 2017 14:13:21 Ed wrote:

> On 04/20/2017 11:37 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > It has been quite a few years and they are still "temporarily"
> > working. You forgot the quotes around temporarily, Kirk. I fixed it
> > for you. ;-)
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Its only temporary, .unless it works.
>
> Ed.
>
And my place is full of such "temporary" fixes, that after quite a few 
years, are still working.  Are we not, as a group, generally of that 
ilk?
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[Chris Albertson]

The stuff is good to about 350C and completely resistant to oils and
solvents.  It is used as a single layer roofing material in clerical
buildings and as a high performance gasket in high pressure and
temperature applications.It would be complete overkill to use
fiber reenforced hypalon for a scarf guard but it is not expensive for
a single square yard of the stuff.

You can also use an old kitchen towel held on with magnets, likely
work just as well.

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 2:09 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> On 20 April 2017 at 09:15, Chris Albertson  wrote:
>> The magic term to type into Google is "Hypalon Fabric".
>> Other material would work but this stuff is VERY tough.  It is what
>> they make professional quality inflatable boats from.
>
> How resistant to hot swarf are boats?
>
> http://www.modelengineeringwebsite.com/Machine_bellows.html
>
> Uses a combination of polyester paper and metallized ironing-board cover.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 20 April 2017 11:22:03 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Fanuc has been using fiber optic connections for more than 30 years. 
> And I work with an old SCM machine with a Num 1040 control that has a
> bank of fiber optic remote io that is one of the things holding me
> back from trying to convert it to Linuxcnc.
>
This has been a wish of mine for a long time.  We need some cheap stuff 
that can be the equ of an opto-isolator, but with a piece of glass or 
plastic fiber up to several feet long as the optical media between them. 
With power on the rx end, signal losses in the plastic fiber could be 
easily compensated. I can visualize stepper drivers incorporating it, 
probably at no more cost for the pair of fiber sockets than they cost 
for the full opto-isolation BOM right now.

All we would need would be an HE IR LED with a molded in funnel to guide 
the fiber tip to the chip face in the LED.  Some sort of a jacket on the 
fiber to prolong its life if rubbing on something, or to prevent optical 
crosstalk would be needed. The major design problem AISI is in gripping 
the fiber to anchor it at both ends, with long term gripping pressure 
imprinting itself on the fiber creating radiation leaks.  Even glass 
will do that, but usually over time frames that exceed the life of the 
rest of the machine since technically, glass is a super-cooled liquid, 
flowing visibly over the lifetime of the observer.

The led makers have now had 40+ years to design such a package, and I 
fail to understand why it has not happened.

Or has it, and I missed the announcement?  Thats a plausible excuse given 
my age and retired status. If anybody would have it on this side of the 
pond, digikey, and I've only found one candidate so far. Intended to be 
a remoteable indicator, the led is conventional shaped, available in 
several colors.  Pricing starts at $2.15 with a 6" light pipe, Available 
up to 3940" long. :) With the far end of that pipe facing into an 
avalanche mode transistor, mounted exactly the same as the led, and 
substituted for the BOM that puts the opto-isolation into the stepper 
drivers input circuits, it ought to be essentially free! What sort of 
speed would have TBD.  But I'd certainly have to think its faster than 
the 200 to 300 kilohertz we can now drive a $35 M542 stepper driver.

Look at 

And see what you think of it.

One of those in red led, looking at one of these:



Would I think, be a good test bed. Need some smd bypassing of the rx 
supply, and I'm not sure what buffering might be needed to make it 
actually drive the opto's in the stepper driver.  Pulse time distortions 
are quite small and the data rate can be as high as 16 megabaud.

Now if I can find where to source the fiber cable it uses in say 10' 
pieces, I could try it out in this lathe conversion. With 10 40" 
assemblies, I could put feet and sheet metal between the pi-7i90 and the 
noise makers already installed.  With 30 of them I could replace the 
copper leaving the pi's box, except for the power cord, with fiber, and 
enjoy the peace and quiet.

And I've got Dennis Strander at DigiKey furiously sending out requests 
for more info. W/O the fibers, we're under a $5 bill a connection so 
far. I can live with that.  We'll see what falls out of my email box in 
the next few hours.

> - Original Message -
> From: "Gregg Eshelman" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017
> 4:39:08 AM
> Subject: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC
>
> Looks interesting. Can't have a ground loop when there's no wires.
> http://hackaday.com/2016/03/20/add-fiber-optic-control-to-your-cnc/
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[Ed]

On 04/20/2017 11:37 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> It has been quite a few years and they are still "temporarily" working.
> You forgot the quotes around temporarily, Kirk. I fixed it for you. ;-)
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
Its only temporary, .unless it works.

Ed.


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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 20 April 2017 09:22:41 Kirk Wallace wrote:

> On 04/20/2017 12:22 AM, Johann Beukes wrote:
> > Hi Guys
> > Can someone help me please? I need tonmake my own telescopic slide
> > covers. I need to know what material I can use to fold my own? Its
> > like tarp with rubber impregnation.
>
> When I got my HNC lathe I wanted to get running right away,
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/3-1a.jpg
>
> but the cross slide bellows had large holes. Just to get by in the
> short term, I did a search for "how to fold diy bellows" and folded a
> bellows using a couple of legal manila file folders.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_paper
>
> It has been quite a few years and they are still "temporarily" working.

You forgot the quotes around temporarily, Kirk. I fixed it for you. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC

[Todd Zuercher]

Fanuc has been using fiber optic connections for more than 30 years.  And I 
work with an old SCM machine with a Num 1040 control that has a bank of fiber 
optic remote io that is one of the things holding me back from trying to 
convert it to Linuxcnc.

- Original Message -
From: "Gregg Eshelman" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 4:39:08 AM
Subject: [Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC

Looks interesting. Can't have a ground loop when there's no wires.
http://hackaday.com/2016/03/20/add-fiber-optic-control-to-your-cnc/

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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[Kirk Wallace]

On 04/20/2017 12:22 AM, Johann Beukes wrote:
> Hi Guys
> Can someone help me please? I need tonmake my own telescopic slide covers.
> I need to know what material I can use to fold my own? Its like tarp with
> rubber impregnation.

When I got my HNC lathe I wanted to get running right away,
http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/3-1a.jpg

but the cross slide bellows had large holes. Just to get by in the short 
term, I did a search for "how to fold diy bellows" and folded a bellows 
using a couple of legal manila file folders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_paper

It has been quite a few years and they are still temporarily working.

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[Dave Caroline]

There are two folds used in bellows both should be easy to find
a google images search for
bellows fold pattern

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[Ken Strauss]

Tormach sells replacement covers for their machines for reasonable prices.
Perhaps one would meet your requirements. See
https://www.tormach.com/search.html?q=bellows

I have a scan of an article on making large format camera bellows. Email me
if a copy would help.

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 4:13 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers
>
>
> On 20 Apr 2017, at 08:22, Johann Beukes wrote:
>
> > Hi Guys
> > Can someone help me please? I need tonmake my own telescopic slide
> covers.
>
> On the off-chance you might find something ready-made in the right size, I
> suggest here:
> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/Machine-Bellows
> I suspect these are spares for SEIG machines
>
> Marcus
>
> > I need to know what material I can use to fold my own? Its like tarp
> > with rubber impregnation.
> > --
> >  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[andy pugh]

I could imagine this working well

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xnomex+paper.TRS0&_nkw=nomex+paper&_sacat=0


-- 
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"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[Kurt Jacobson]

I have only posted on the forum twice, and each time it has gone down
shortly thereafter. The only reasonable conclusion is that I break the
forum ;)

Cheers,
Kurt

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 7:33 AM, giorgio foga 
wrote:

> Some forum it has "donate" button .. In this way it is possible to fund a
> more stable server service, especially in the case of sites with a lot of
> memory consumption ... 2USD of annual donation is nothing to worry about
> getting everyone in touch ... but it is not my intention to oppose Nobody
> with this proposal.
>
>
> regards
>
> giorgio
>
>
> 
> Da: Bengt Sjölund 
> Inviato: giovedì 20 aprile 2017 12.35
> A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Oggetto: [Emc-users] Forum down?
>
> Forum down, anybody know what has happened?
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
>
> 
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> include how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other
> general EMC related ...
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[TJoseph Powderly]

Johann hello
maybe
the material like used in bluejeans coated in polyurethane ( a marine 
finish )
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general-metalwork-discussion/58425-cnc.html
HTH tomp tjtr33

On 04/20/17 14:22, Johann Beukes wrote:
> Hi Guys
> Can someone help me please? I need tonmake my own telescopic slide covers.
> I need to know what material I can use to fold my own? Its like tarp with
> rubber impregnation.
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[giorgio foga]

Some forum it has "donate" button .. In this way it is possible to fund a more 
stable server service, especially in the case of sites with a lot of memory 
consumption ... 2USD of annual donation is nothing to worry about getting 
everyone in touch ... but it is not my intention to oppose Nobody with this 
proposal.


regards

giorgio



Da: Bengt Sjölund 
Inviato: giovedì 20 aprile 2017 12.35
A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Oggetto: [Emc-users] Forum down?

Forum down, anybody know what has happened?

Cheers
Bengt


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SourceForge
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This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC). Topics include 
how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other general EMC 
related ...


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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[giorgio foga]

some forums it has "donate" button ...This way it is possible to fund a more 
stable server service, especially in the case of sites with a lot of memory 
consumption ... 2USD of annual donation is nothing to worry about getting 
everyone in touch ... but it is not my intention to oppose Nobody with this 
proposal.


Regards

giorgio



Da: Bengt Sjölund 
Inviato: giovedì 20 aprile 2017 12.35
A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Oggetto: [Emc-users] Forum down?

Forum down, anybody know what has happened?

Cheers
Bengt


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how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other general EMC 
related ...


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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[andy pugh]

On 20 April 2017 at 09:15, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> The magic term to type into Google is "Hypalon Fabric".
> Other material would work but this stuff is VERY tough.  It is what
> they make professional quality inflatable boats from.

How resistant to hot swarf are boats?

http://www.modelengineeringwebsite.com/Machine_bellows.html

Uses a combination of polyester paper and metallized ironing-board cover.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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[Emc-users] Fiber optic control for CNC

[Gregg Eshelman]

Looks interesting. Can't have a ground loop when there's no wires.
http://hackaday.com/2016/03/20/add-fiber-optic-control-to-your-cnc/

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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[Chris Albertson]

The magic term to type into Google is "Hypalon Fabric".
Other material would work but this stuff is VERY tough.  It is what
they make professional quality inflatable boats from.

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:22 AM, Johann Beukes  wrote:
> Hi Guys
> Can someone help me please? I need tonmake my own telescopic slide covers.
> I need to know what material I can use to fold my own? Its like tarp with
> rubber impregnation.
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Slide covers

[Marcus Bowman]

On 20 Apr 2017, at 08:22, Johann Beukes wrote:

> Hi Guys
> Can someone help me please? I need tonmake my own telescopic slide covers.

On the off-chance you might find something ready-made in the right size, I 
suggest here:
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/Machine-Bellows
I suspect these are spares for SEIG machines

Marcus

> I need to know what material I can use to fold my own? Its like tarp with
> rubber impregnation.
> --
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[Emc-users] Slide covers

[Johann Beukes]

Hi Guys
Can someone help me please? I need tonmake my own telescopic slide covers.
I need to know what material I can use to fold my own? Its like tarp with
rubber impregnation.
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