Re: [Emc-users] non-contact position sensors, surprisingly good performance.

[jeremy youngs]

It's a brown boveri 2.5 kw servo motor with a 10 v /krpm tachometer. I'm
running a selema 1224 servo amplifier , at 100 dc . I still have some room
for more voltage but my transformer cabbaging skills aren't as solid as my
ability to find drives and motors. I may well try one of these for an index
pulse, thanks for the heads up about low speed instability and the positive
feedback on the omron. I need to figure out how to mount one of them in
this contortionist box called mill head. Time to turn in , good night
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D printed CNC conversion for Sieg X2

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 11 February 2018 20:44:53 Cecil Thomas wrote:

> Gene,
> Although they are often called "thread protectors" , I prefer to call
> them adapter pushers.
> I have found that their most important function is to be installed
> BEFORE the collet adapter and to be used by turning CCW to push
> against the collet adapter to remove it.  Otherwise you will need to
> use a knockout bar to pound the 5MT to 5C adapter out of the
> spindle.  I have made them in steel and aluminum for different
> machines and I find no reason to not use aluminum. 

The one you made for that lathe I bought is plastic pipe with a brass 
hammer inlaid in the end, works rather well.  As does the drawbar once I 
had finished it by putting a wheel and some needle thrust bearings on 
it.

> If you do use 
> plastic be sure that it is strong enough to withstand a bunch of
> torque with a spanner in pushing out the adapter.
> In order for it to work the adapter needs to have a "step" in it
> which the pusher can push against.  If the hole in the pusher is just
> a clearance fit over the adapter then a snapring in a slot will
> provide the surface to push against.
>
> Cecil
>
> At 07:29 AM 2/11/2018, you wrote:
> >Another reason to get one of those 3d printer things is that I don't
> > have a thread protector for the 2.25x8 spindle on my Sheldon. I've
> > considered making one out of alu, but putting that in contact with
> > alu doesn't seem like a Good Thing. I saw a you-tube video where
> > someone made one out of pla for a smaller 6" craftsman, and
> > expanding that for the 2.25" seems
>
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Re: [Emc-users] non-contact position sensors, surprisingly good performance.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 11 February 2018 20:12:12 jeremy youngs wrote:

> http://ebay.com/itm/LJ12A3-4-Z-BX-Inductive-Proximity-Sensor
> These were the winner in the opening comment. They have a five pack
> for less than$20 which would leave 2 left over . Their mounting would
> work well with a tone wheel on my spindle . My
> Drive runs a tach and this would be a good solution for spindle index
> as I have no great place for an encoder.

I didn't either, so I drilled and tapped the rear of the motors shaft, 
which was sitting flush with the top of the rear bearing, and made a 5mm 
extension about 10mm long that fit the omron encoder's 5mm coupling. 
Made a square hole in the top cover and mounted a 1/8" alu plate about 
an inch above the top of the cover to mount the encoder itself on. 
Sounds rather like apple tree mechanics, but its working quite well.

2 of those, if they are fast enough would work well with a tone wheel, 
but the low speed performance would suck. The problem there would be the 
low tooth count of the tone wheel.

My combo of using the old interrupter index against an encoder on the 
motor is that the scale count per spindle rev is quite high, over 7000 
in high gear, and over 14000 in low gear, but some tally switches on the 
shift knob and some hal magic fixed that right up. That speed 
overpowered the opto's in the bob, so they've been excised. The encoder 
didn't say, but when it arrived it was differential outputs, so some 
dollar a copy rs485 gismo's were used as receivers.  Works fine to the 
spindles max of 1500 or 3000 revs which is a hair over 350 kilohertz at 
the 5i25 inputs.

I think they'll work fine for an index, but I'd have reservations about 
using them for the encoder A/B generators. As for the drive (I'm 
assuming a vfd) having a tach, its probably derived from the frequency 
being sent to the motor, meaning its going to be a few percent 
optimistic with a load on the motor. They always have a slip angle, its 
what makes the motors work, so a 4 pole motor at rated load, running on 
60 hz, will actually be turning between 1725 and 1750 as opposed to a 
fully sync motor which would be doing the full 1800 at light load. I'd 
much rather have proof of the spindles absolute position everytime an 
edge of the tone wheel goes by.

This is working so much better that the 67 slot opto disk in the g0704, 
that given enough time before I miss morning roll call, I will do the 
same for the teeny motor on my HF micromill. Except that's a good excuse 
to put the bigger 400 watt motor I took out of TLM when it grew a 1 
horse drive parts breaker.

-- 
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--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D printed CNC conversion for Sieg X2

[Cecil Thomas]

Gene,
Although they are often called "thread protectors" , I prefer to call 
them adapter pushers.
I have found that their most important function is to be installed 
BEFORE the collet adapter and to be used by turning CCW to push 
against the collet adapter to remove it.  Otherwise you will need to 
use a knockout bar to pound the 5MT to 5C adapter out of the 
spindle.  I have made them in steel and aluminum for different 
machines and I find no reason to not use aluminum.   If you do use 
plastic be sure that it is strong enough to withstand a bunch of 
torque with a spanner in pushing out the adapter.
In order for it to work the adapter needs to have a "step" in it 
which the pusher can push against.  If the hole in the pusher is just 
a clearance fit over the adapter then a snapring in a slot will 
provide the surface to push against.


Cecil

At 07:29 AM 2/11/2018, you wrote:

Another reason to get one of those 3d printer things is that I don't have
a thread protector for the 2.25x8 spindle on my Sheldon. I've considered
making one out of alu, but putting that in contact with alu doesn't seem
like a Good Thing. I saw a you-tube video where someone made one out of
pla for a smaller 6" craftsman, and expanding that for the 2.25" seems



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Re: [Emc-users] non-contact position sensors, surprisingly good performance.

[jeremy youngs]

http://ebay.com/itm/LJ12A3-4-Z-BX-Inductive-Proximity-Sensor
These were the winner in the opening comment. They have a five pack for
less than$20 which would leave 2 left over . Their mounting would work well
with a tone wheel on my spindle . My
Drive runs a tach and this would be a good solution for spindle index as I
have no great place for an encoder.
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Re: [Emc-users] non-contact position sensors, surprisingly good performance.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 11 February 2018 17:47:07 jeremy youngs wrote:

> How fast are these? Could they be utilized as a spindle encoder?

How fast are what? Need a link Jeremy...

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] non-contact position sensors, surprisingly good performance.

[jeremy youngs]

How fast are these? Could they be utilized as a spindle encoder?
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[Emc-users] 3D Printed parts as the starting point for CNC conversion.

[Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users]

3D printed parts are a great way to jump start a CNC conversion.
I do think care needs to be used when making motor mounts. Steppers that run 
well usually run hot, and I do mean temps comparable to what the hot bed of the 
printer operates at.
One of the best uses of a 3D part is the ball nut holder. You can fit it up, 
grid some off, get the height just perfect and measure what the final version 
needs.
Items with thrust bearings - not so good. Most filaments distort under pressure 
- and that is at 100% infill.
Designs like the one posted is complicated - but designed towards 3D printing. 
That same motor mount could be made in simplest form with a single plate and a 
pair of standoffs. Again design by target method of manufacture.
Greg
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D printed CNC conversion for Sieg X2

[Marcus Bowman]

On 11 Feb 2018, at 12:29, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> Another reason to get one of those 3d printer things is that I don't have 
> a thread protector for the 2.25x8 spindle on my Sheldon. I've considered 
> making one out of alu, but putting that in contact with alu doesn't seem 
> like a Good Thing. I saw a you-tube video where someone made one out of 
> pla for a smaller 6" craftsman, and expanding that for the 2.25" seems 
> like a good idea.  And it wouldn't take a huge printer to do that. 
> Complete with some pretty aggressive  knurling to get a good hand grip 
> on it. 
> 

There was an article on a similar nose protector for a different lathe, 
recently, in one of the magazines. I have a pukka manufacturer nose protector 
for my lathe, as part of a collet set, but the plastic would be gentler on the 
threads. And a good excuse for a 3D printer, too.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] 3D printed CNC conversion for Sieg X2

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 11 February 2018 03:01:58 Chris Albertson wrote:

> This is astounding that it apparently works just fine.
>
> It is a 3D printed  part that adapts a stepper motor directly to a
> Sieg X2 mill.  Just one part is required for the X and one part for
> the Y.  It will require 127 grams of PLA plastic which costs $2.47  My
> printer will take 9 hours to make this.  If I start printing right now
> it will be finished in the morning.
>
> The question everyone asks is if this will work well enough to make a
> copy of itself in aluminum.  I don't know but I think you would need a
> four axis setup to make this in metal.  And the mill would have to
> remove $100 worth of chips.   A better way is to use "lost plastic"
> casting and pour aluminum in then machine the working surfaces flat.  
> But maybe no need as I've been told the weak link is the lead screw,
> not the plastic.
>
> In any case I'm now spoiled by my printer's ability to make complex
> rounded organic shapes.  CAD software makes drawing these shapes very
> easy.  I'm going to have to learn to cast metal.
>
> Even if CNC is not wanted, this has to be the easiest way to add the
> X-axis power feed.
>
> In any case making milling machine parts with plastic is such an
> outlandish idea that i am going to have to try this.  Not much to
> loose with price of price of plastic at 2 cents per gram.
>
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2446297

Looks good Chris. Its been close to 20 years ago when I put the LMS big 
table kit on mine, made some sliding fins type couplings, put some ball 
thrust washers into the handle bearing bosses, and a pair of teeny ball 
screws in my first HF micro-mill. I made a motor mount flange out of 
1/8" plate, and made some steel standoffs to space the motors out to 
make room for the couplings. Shade tree mechanics for sure, but its 
still working fine yet in 2018. Now the z drive on that is a different 
critter, but its working fine too.

Another reason to get one of those 3d printer things is that I don't have 
a thread protector for the 2.25x8 spindle on my Sheldon. I've considered 
making one out of alu, but putting that in contact with alu doesn't seem 
like a Good Thing. I saw a you-tube video where someone made one out of 
pla for a smaller 6" craftsman, and expanding that for the 2.25" seems 
like a good idea.  And it wouldn't take a huge printer to do that. 
Complete with some pretty aggressive  knurling to get a good hand grip 
on it. 

I'm impressed, but I need to make the rock64 run that Sheldon first.


-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] 3D printed CNC conversion for Sieg X2

[Chris Albertson]

This is astounding that it apparently works just fine.

It is a 3D printed  part that adapts a stepper motor directly to a Sieg X2
mill.  Just one part is required for the X and one part for the Y.  It will
require 127 grams of PLA plastic which costs $2.47  My printer will take 9
hours to make this.  If I start printing right now it will be finished in
the morning.

The question everyone asks is if this will work well enough to make a copy
of itself in aluminum.  I don't know but I think you would need a four axis
setup to make this in metal.  And the mill would have to remove $100 worth
of chips.   A better way is to use "lost plastic" casting and pour aluminum
in then machine the working surfaces flat.   But maybe no need as I've been
told the weak link is the lead screw, not the plastic.

In any case I'm now spoiled by my printer's ability to make complex rounded
organic shapes.  CAD software makes drawing these shapes very easy.  I'm
going to have to learn to cast metal.

Even if CNC is not wanted, this has to be the easiest way to add the X-axis
power feed.

In any case making milling machine parts with plastic is such an outlandish
idea that i am going to have to try this.  Not much to loose with price of
price of plastic at 2 cents per gram.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2446297

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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