Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users]

I may have slept through a major upgrade. But I was sure that there was no 
support for dual tool paths to run independently at the same time. I have run 
older Okuma dual turret turning centers and both turrets could work 
independently within reason. (This was a single spindle machine) Okuma used G13 
P / G14 P to define upper/lower turret and the P kept them in sync. 
Either G13|G14 program could issue S M3|M4|M5. Dual independent operation 
is only needed on a dual spindle/ dual turret, and things will get real 
complicated for the LCNC developers when you try to do a part hand off on the 
fly from '$0' to '$1'. 


I like the '$' implementation as proposed but I wonder if the $# should be tied 
to the active work coordinate system. IE G54-G57 might be set to $0 and the 
G58-G59 are set to $1

I know this could throw another wrench in the format system variables are 
stored.

Greg - Out yonder in Yoder, CO


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[Emc-users] Nother Q I can't find in the docs

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings;

Due to backing out for a home some swarf or something got between the 
switch and the front of the crossfeed, lifting the L bracket holding the 
home switch hard enough to pop the superglue holding it to the apron 
face.  So the next time I homed it, it came back but never tripped the 
switch crashing the x nut, w/o damage, about 50 thou farther out.
 
I'd like to set my x home about .1" in from the home switch closure, with 
the dro showing around +4.5 or +5.0.

As that switch is a good 5 something inches from the center line of the 
lathe, I would like the initial home to be about 5" positive on the dro. 
So assumeing the final switch closure is equ to 5.250" what would be 
example values for HOME? and HOME_OFFSET? 

My experiments haven't been successfull, causing end of travel crashes, 
and I'd druther not break the bracket off again.

Secondary but s/b on the same page, are the soft limits.

The docs say the soft limits are in machine units, eg inch for me. But 
what can I watch with a halmeter while jogging, to get the desired 
values to put in the ini file? They should not be sensitive to touch 
off's. Moving around done by the lincurve/offset will still be 
invisible, but thats 5 thou worst case.

A statement that the final switch closure when doing the homing, sets 
this value to 0.0, making these limits reference that 0.0 switch 
closure would be nice if thats the case, but it doesn't appear to be.

Clarification please.

Thanks all;
 
-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[John Dammeyer]

In that case I'm fine with the change.  

After being bitten by Microsoft VISTA and many times by Linux changes that all 
just result in hours of lost time I'm a bit queasy about changes that mess up 
old things.  I suspect, the programmers and companies who make changes that 
break old systems would take a different approach if they were financially 
responsible for users hours fighting an upgrade they didn't want but were 
coerced into doing.

The best example of course is VISTA but I'm sure everyone can come up with at 
least one.  Think of it.  Over 10 million copies. Imagine the screw up with 
that OS and if every user lost 5 hours of time getting it to work properly and 
their time was worth $100/hour.My math puts that as a cost of 5 billion 
dollars of lost productivity.  All so Bill Gates can increase the size of his 
Gates Foundation.

Or how about Apple, make the mistake of upgrading the OS on your iPhone 4s and 
battery life suddenly goes to crap.  And you can't un-install the OS upgrade.  
So my wife's 4s effectively became useless after a few months of fighting it.  
My iPhone 4s that I didn't upgrade 2 years later still makes phone calls, 
receives texts, etc.  Just can't run the newer apps.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-16-18 2:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support
> 
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 at 18:38, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > Or would the system continue to work on a single spindle system without
> ever adding a $ ?
> 
> If you don't use a $ then everything works exactly the same as now.
> 
> So all existing G-code and configs should work just as they used to
> after the change.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 16 September 2018 17:21:48 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 at 18:38, John Dammeyer  
wrote:
> > Or would the system continue to work on a single spindle system
> > without ever adding a $ ?
>
> If you don't use a $ then everything works exactly the same as now.
>
> So all existing G-code and configs should work just as they used to
> after the change.

Excellent! I withdraw my concerns.

Thanks Andy

Now if we could convince someone into fleshing out "man 9 motion". 
Specificly, when a pos-cmd is looked at, and that same joint has a MIN 
and MAX position defined, are both of these relative to that joints home 
switch?

In the pdf Doc, its not well defined, and as the man 9 motion page says, 
Its horribly incomplete.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 16 September 2018 13:36:02 John Dammeyer wrote:

> My major point was that now one has to change every single G-Code
> program out there that perhaps has been in use for a number of years
> to add a $ in front to select the spindle.  That ripples out into the
> various CAM programs too.

All of which would need a potentially costly upgrade for those who don't 
or cannot edit the gcode of possibly thousands of well composed gcode 
files to convert it for multiple spindle, even if every machine in the 
shop has only one spindle.

That tends to make John D's suggestion a lot more appetizing.  Or use 
m7-m8-m9 for those sorts of controls as I have done while carving wood 
to bring in the locator jig for the next identical part being carved.

I can see where that might be a problem if somebody runs MY gcode on a 
different machine that actually has mist or flood coolant. That however 
will likely be after I miss morning roll call for good. One of those 
only I know about it mods.
>
> Or would the system continue to work on a single spindle system
> without ever adding a $ ?
>
Good question John.

> John Dammeyer
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-16-18 8:59 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support
> >
> > On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 at 16:50, John Dammeyer 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I'm not sure why there would ever be a need to have two spindles
> > > turning
> >
> > at the same time.  An example of where that might be useful would be
> > interesting.
> >
> > It's pretty common with lathes. Many have a counter-spindle to pick
> > up the work and machine the back side.
> >
> > > I prefer the Mxxx.yyy technique.
> >
> > You can always re-map my work to achieve that, if you want. The same
> > is true for futzing about with magic tool numbers.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 at 18:38, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Or would the system continue to work on a single spindle system without ever 
> adding a $ ?

If you don't use a $ then everything works exactly the same as now.

So all existing G-code and configs should work just as they used to
after the change.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[John Dammeyer]

My major point was that now one has to change every single G-Code program out 
there that perhaps has been in use for a number of years to add a $ in front to 
select the spindle.  That ripples out into the various CAM programs too.

Or would the system continue to work on a single spindle system without ever 
adding a $ ?

John Dammeyer

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-16-18 8:59 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support
> 
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 at 16:50, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > I'm not sure why there would ever be a need to have two spindles turning
> at the same time.  An example of where that might be useful would be
> interesting.
> 
> It's pretty common with lathes. Many have a counter-spindle to pick up
> the work and machine the back side.
> 
> > I prefer the Mxxx.yyy technique.
> 
> You can always re-map my work to achieve that, if you want. The same
> is true for futzing about with magic tool numbers.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[Rene Hopf via Emc-users]

> On 16. Sep 2018, at 17:47, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure why there would ever be a need to have two spindles turning at 
> the same time.  An example of where that might be useful would be interesting.

- live tooling on a lathe, although in that case the main spindle usually does 
a coordinated move.
- dual spindle lathe
- gang tooling routers


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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[Ken Strauss]

Perhaps I misunderstand but multi-spindle drill presses were once very common. 
They allowed one to drill several holes in the same time as drilling only one. 
The same could certainly apply to milling.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 11:48 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support
>
> Isn't it more in keeping with G-Code to do the equivalent of setting a mode.
> For example we set Relative or Absolute and from then on all motion is done
> that way.
>
> So why not an Mxxx.yyy to set currently active spindle.  At that point 
> G-Code
> remains the same with no incompatibility with any of the CNC CAM programs.
> Changing Active Spindles would not set active spindle speed to 0.  It's left 
> in
> the mode after the last command.
>
> I'm not sure why there would ever be a need to have two spindles turning at
> the same time.  An example of where that might be useful would be
> interesting.
>
> Or modify the tool selection process.
> Select Tool # 990, 991 or 992 to lock in a spindle.  Then Tool 1 for that 
> spindle.
> Again, existing CAM software just sees a G-Code sequence for Tool Selection.
>
> I prefer the Mxxx.yyy technique.
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-16-18 6:57 AM
> > To: EMC developers; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support
> >
> > After some consultation with the release manager I have decided to
> > push multi-spindle support in to the current development branch.
> > A side-effect of this is that motion.spindle. pins all become
> > spindle.0.x pins. (and so on for extra spindles.) When I push it
> > this will be added as a refinement to the update_ini automatic script
> > so configs should update automatically.
> >
> > To add more spindles just add "num_spindles=" to the end of the
> > "loadrt motmod" line in HAL, and add a [TRAJ]SPINDLES to the INI. It
> > is imperative that these match or trouble will ensue.
> >
> > The spindle to use is controlled by the $ character (as all the other
> > letters were in use). This doesn't match any commercial control, but
> > should make remapping to match any specific control relatively easy.
> >
> > The current behaviour of LinuxCNC is that spindles have a speed even
> > when off. To see this try M3 S100 followed by M5, then M3 with no
> > S-word. You will see that the spindle re-starts with the previous
> > speed.
> >
> > This becomes rather more obvious with multi spindle.
> > S10 $0
> > S100 $1
> > S1000 $2
> > Will set the speeds of each spindle, but not start them.
> > Then
> > M3
> > will start them all simultaneously. M4 will reverse them all. M5 will
> > stop them all.
> >
> > M4 $2 will only reverse spindle 2
> > M5 $1 will only stop spindle 1.
> >
> > G76 $1 . will perform a threading cycle synched to the encoder
> > feedback on the spindle.1.revs pin.
> >
> > A preview version (merged with current master) can be tried in the
> > "andypugh/multispindle-master" branch.
> >
> > Questions...
> > What should be the effect of a $ on a line by itself?
> >
> > Should we allow multiple $? eg M5 $0 $2 to stop two spindles? At the
> > moment there is an internal concept of "current spindle". Perhaps
> > there should instead be a spindle mask and $ should be interpreted to
> > set this mask prior to parsing the S and F words in the block.
> >
> > Has anyone used multi-spindle G-code on a different control?
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > ? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 at 16:50, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> I'm not sure why there would ever be a need to have two spindles turning at 
> the same time.  An example of where that might be useful would be interesting.

It's pretty common with lathes. Many have a counter-spindle to pick up
the work and machine the back side.

> I prefer the Mxxx.yyy technique.

You can always re-map my work to achieve that, if you want. The same
is true for futzing about with magic tool numbers.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[John Dammeyer]

Isn't it more in keeping with G-Code to do the equivalent of setting a mode.   
For example we set Relative or Absolute and from then on all motion is done 
that way. 

So why not an Mxxx.yyy to set currently active spindle.  At that point G-Code 
remains the same with no incompatibility with any of the CNC CAM programs.   
Changing Active Spindles would not set active spindle speed to 0.  It's left in 
the mode after the last command.

I'm not sure why there would ever be a need to have two spindles turning at the 
same time.  An example of where that might be useful would be interesting.

Or modify the tool selection process.
Select Tool # 990, 991 or 992 to lock in a spindle.  Then Tool 1 for that 
spindle. Again, existing CAM software just sees a G-Code sequence for Tool 
Selection. 

I prefer the Mxxx.yyy technique.

John Dammeyer


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-16-18 6:57 AM
> To: EMC developers; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support
> 
> After some consultation with the release manager I have decided to
> push multi-spindle support in to the current development branch.
> A side-effect of this is that motion.spindle. pins all become
> spindle.0.x pins. (and so on for extra spindles.) When I push it
> this will be added as a refinement to the update_ini automatic script
> so configs should update automatically.
> 
> To add more spindles just add "num_spindles=" to the end of the
> "loadrt motmod" line in HAL, and add a [TRAJ]SPINDLES to the INI. It
> is imperative that these match or trouble will ensue.
> 
> The spindle to use is controlled by the $ character (as all the other
> letters were in use). This doesn't match any commercial control, but
> should make remapping to match any specific control relatively easy.
> 
> The current behaviour of LinuxCNC is that spindles have a speed even
> when off. To see this try M3 S100 followed by M5, then M3 with no
> S-word. You will see that the spindle re-starts with the previous
> speed.
> 
> This becomes rather more obvious with multi spindle.
> S10 $0
> S100 $1
> S1000 $2
> Will set the speeds of each spindle, but not start them.
> Then
> M3
> will start them all simultaneously. M4 will reverse them all. M5 will
> stop them all.
> 
> M4 $2 will only reverse spindle 2
> M5 $1 will only stop spindle 1.
> 
> G76 $1 . will perform a threading cycle synched to the encoder
> feedback on the spindle.1.revs pin.
> 
> A preview version (merged with current master) can be tried in the
> "andypugh/multispindle-master" branch.
> 
> Questions...
> What should be the effect of a $ on a line by itself?
> 
> Should we allow multiple $? eg M5 $0 $2 to stop two spindles? At the
> moment there is an internal concept of "current spindle". Perhaps
> there should instead be a spindle mask and $ should be interpreted to
> set this mask prior to parsing the S and F words in the block.
> 
> Has anyone used multi-spindle G-code on a different control?
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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[Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[andy pugh]

After some consultation with the release manager I have decided to
push multi-spindle support in to the current development branch.
A side-effect of this is that motion.spindle. pins all become
spindle.0.x pins. (and so on for extra spindles.) When I push it
this will be added as a refinement to the update_ini automatic script
so configs should update automatically.

To add more spindles just add "num_spindles=" to the end of the
"loadrt motmod" line in HAL, and add a [TRAJ]SPINDLES to the INI. It
is imperative that these match or trouble will ensue.

The spindle to use is controlled by the $ character (as all the other
letters were in use). This doesn't match any commercial control, but
should make remapping to match any specific control relatively easy.

The current behaviour of LinuxCNC is that spindles have a speed even
when off. To see this try M3 S100 followed by M5, then M3 with no
S-word. You will see that the spindle re-starts with the previous
speed.

This becomes rather more obvious with multi spindle.
S10 $0
S100 $1
S1000 $2
Will set the speeds of each spindle, but not start them.
Then
M3
will start them all simultaneously. M4 will reverse them all. M5 will
stop them all.

M4 $2 will only reverse spindle 2
M5 $1 will only stop spindle 1.

G76 $1 . will perform a threading cycle synched to the encoder
feedback on the spindle.1.revs pin.

A preview version (merged with current master) can be tried in the
"andypugh/multispindle-master" branch.

Questions...
What should be the effect of a $ on a line by itself?

Should we allow multiple $? eg M5 $0 $2 to stop two spindles? At the
moment there is an internal concept of "current spindle". Perhaps
there should instead be a spindle mask and $ should be interpreted to
set this mask prior to parsing the S and F words in the block.

Has anyone used multi-spindle G-code on a different control?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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