Re: [Emc-users] Rockpro64 arrived

[TJoseph Powderly]

Hello Alan

On 04/26/2019 11:02 AM, Alan Condit wrote:
I downloaded the Arabian Stretch nightly image 
Armbian_5.83.190424_Rockpro64_Debian_stretch_dev_5.0.0.7z 
. 
It is running the 5.0.0 kernel (as patched by Armbian. When I ran 
menuconfig, I had to figure out how to select the full RT preempt. 
Then I built the linux-stable-rt-4.19.31-rt18 kernel and installed it. 
At the end of the install the Image link was still pointing to the 
5.0.0 kernel but the Initrd link was pointing to the 
initrd-linux-stable-rt-4.19.31-rt18. So I tried booting it up and it 
booted the 5.0.0 image, then I went into /boot, deleted the Image link 
and created a new symbolic link to 4.19.31-rt kernel. Then I tried 
booting again and it worked. I typed uname -a and it reported the 
4.19.31 kernel with full SMP Preempt RT. So, Gene, you could do the 
same thing for your Rock64 but you need to download the Armbian image 
for the Rock64 rather than the RockPro64. Don’t ask how I know!!! I 
compiled the kernel on the RockPro64. I started about 8:00p.m. and it 
finished sometime after 2:00a.m. and before 7:00a.m. Alan 

please, latency test says what?
tomp


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Re: [Emc-users] Rockpro64 arrived

[Alan Condit]

I downloaded the Arabian Stretch nightly image 
Armbian_5.83.190424_Rockpro64_Debian_stretch_dev_5.0.0.7z 
.
 It is running the 5.0.0 kernel (as patched by Armbian. When I ran menuconfig, 
I had to figure out how to select the full RT preempt. Then I built the 
linux-stable-rt-4.19.31-rt18 kernel and installed it. At the end of the install 
the Image link was still pointing to the 5.0.0 kernel but the Initrd link was 
pointing to the initrd-linux-stable-rt-4.19.31-rt18. So I tried booting it up 
and it booted the 5.0.0 image, then I went into /boot, deleted the Image link 
and created a new symbolic link to 4.19.31-rt kernel. Then I tried booting 
again and it worked. I typed uname -a and it reported the 4.19.31 kernel with 
full SMP Preempt RT.

So, Gene, you could do the same thing for your Rock64 but you need to download 
the Armbian image for the Rock64 rather than the RockPro64. Don’t ask how I 
know!!!

I compiled the kernel on the RockPro64. I started about 8:00p.m. and it 
finished sometime after 2:00a.m. and before 7:00a.m.

Alan

> From: Alan Condit 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rockpro64 arrived
> Date: April 16, 2019 at 8:15:44 AM PDT
> To: bari , "Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
> 
> 
> 
> Bari,
> 
> I looked at the link that you posted and discovered that they also had this 
> kernel
> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rt/linux-stable-rt.git/log/?h=v4.19-rt
>  
> 
> so, I will try it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan
> 


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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting aly with a drop/sliding saw

[Bruce Layne]

I've used my power miter saw to cut aluminum on many occasions.  I use a
14" carbide blade that's intended for wood.  I go slower than I'd cut
wood.  I use a feed rate that produces a nice thin chip.  I'm sure it
dulls the carbide faster than cutting wood, but it's not that bad.  As
was noted in the video, it's much faster than using the bandsaw, and
it's easier to make accurate and repeatable rough cuts.  I've cut thick
pieces as shown in the video, but I usually cut 1-2 inch aluminum angle
to make custom brackets.  I dry cut the aluminum, mostly because I was
too lazy to set up a mister.

I've thought about buying one of the similar looking multi cut saws such
as the DW872 that cuts metal at a slower RPM.  They can cut steel as
well as aluminum.  A good 14" blade is $100 and up, but the cost per cut
is reported to be better than abrasive cutting wheels, and it's much
faster than an abrasive cutuff saw or a bandsaw.





On 4/25/19 8:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 25 April 2019 19:21:03 Marshland Engineering wrote:
>
>> May be of interest to chaps here. This cuts down on milling swarf and
>> machining time.
>> Needed to rough cut 100 blocks of thick aly before putting them in the
>> milling machine. Cutting with only 1.5 mm extra for finish machining.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/gLLt79OqRvA
>>
>> Cheers Wallace
>>
> I do that too, but its hell on 12" saw blades.
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett




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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting aly with a drop/sliding saw

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 25 April 2019 19:21:03 Marshland Engineering wrote:

> May be of interest to chaps here. This cuts down on milling swarf and
> machining time.
> Needed to rough cut 100 blocks of thick aly before putting them in the
> milling machine. Cutting with only 1.5 mm extra for finish machining.
>
> https://youtu.be/gLLt79OqRvA
>
> Cheers Wallace
>
I do that too, but its hell on 12" saw blades.
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Cutting aly with a drop/sliding saw

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 00:23, Marshland Engineering
 wrote:

> Needed to rough cut 100 blocks of thick aly before putting them in the milling
> machine. Cutting with only 1.5 mm extra for finish machining.

I have cut a few pieces of aluminium that size with my handheld
cordless circular saw. With the wood-cutting blade, and dry :-)

I probably wouldn't want to cut hundreds though.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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[Emc-users] Cutting aly with a drop/sliding saw

[Marshland Engineering]

May be of interest to chaps here. This cuts down on milling swarf and
machining time.  
Needed to rough cut 100 blocks of thick aly before putting them in the milling
machine. Cutting with only 1.5 mm extra for finish machining. 

https://youtu.be/gLLt79OqRvA

Cheers Wallace



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Re: [Emc-users] possibly good news for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 24 April 2019 18:06:47 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 2:07 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Wednesday 24 April 2019 03:42:00 andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 01:30, Gene Heskett 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > Several, your personal config probably makes a far bigger
> > > > difference than the actual version number of the kernel since
> > > > you have to be pretty well up on YOUR hardware to re-configure
> > > > the kernel you are about to build.
> > >
> > > And there is the problem. I have never yet managed to get that
> > > step right and make a version that works on my PC.
> > > (I tried and failed with the NTULinux repo last night)
> >
> > URL?
> >
> > > And the problem to be solved here is building a kernel that can
> > > ship with LinuxCNC and work with _any_ kernel.
> > >
> > > Is it, in fact, currently impossible to provide an RTAI LinuxCNC
> > > ISO with any kernel newer that the one we ship with Wheezy?
> >
> > IDK Andy. Has the current rtai kernel been tried on stretch? Nah,
> > its 32 bit, claims PAE but is not. Stretch is 64 bit.
> >
> > > If that is the case then perhaps it is time to abandon RTAI
> > > altogether?
> >
> > Might be, I have only 1 preempt-rt versions running here, not on
> > software stepping though, both on mesa cards, a 7i90HD+3 ea 7i42TA's
> > running the Sheldon, and the 5i25/7i76D running the G0704. But I've
> > not changed the kernel on the 6040, that machine WAS formerly
> > softstepping the old HF micro so its still running the live iso's
> > kernel. But I've no clue if software stepping would run on it. If I
> > software step it, it would be buckets slower, 10 ipm or so rapids,
> > where its doing 200 now.  And I'd have to share all my home switches
> > for lack of i/o.
> >
> > I hope at the end of the day, that we don't have to abandon software
> > stepping as thats the lowest cost entry point.
>
> SOftware stepping on PC hardware with Linux is "hard" but software
> stepping otherwise is cheap and easy.
>
> I have right here on my desk a little machine that uses a Raspberry Pi
> with "stock" Unbuntu 18.04 and it runs two servo DC motors or steppers
> with nearly
> perfect accuracy using a $3 "Real time processor".
>
> As I type, I'd using Fusion 360 to design an enclosure for the parts
> and connectors.
> I'm looking at a 180x120x40 mm box that house the Pi3 and a driver for
> up to 15 amps
> per motor and do A/B encoder interrups at about 100KHz.  $60 total.

And where do you get the motors for such a low voltage, high current 
scenario?
>
> Size but not cost will be reduced what I can make a custom PCB
>
> My point is that "cost of entry" need not be a PC with a  Mesa card.
> It could be a Pi3 with one (or more) $3 STM32 board.Both the STM
> and Mesa
> can do steps and read encoders way-faster than is required.

Until you want to reduce quantization noise to the vanishing point. 

Before I put a 1000 line encoder directly on the motor, and was trying to 
run it with a 68 slot optical encoder wheel, I even wrote a last 4 
sample averager in hal for my G0704, but the noise still drove the pid 
and servo driver wall to wall if PGain was over 1.5.  With the encoder 
on the motor shaft, I can run PGain up to about 40 with reasonable 
stability. I left the old optical in so I could use its index. I put 
switches on the gear shift knob, and change the rpm scale used in hal. 
And with PGain at 20 I can ask it for 10 rpm in either gear and cannot 
stop the spindle with my hand. And if neither switch is closed, I leave 
the motor running at about 20 revs. The gearshift knob, except for its 
half detent, moves effortlessly from gear to gear, nice since those 
plastic gears have flat faced teeth. It makes no diff how fast its 
running because the motor response is so fast its down to creep speed 
long before the gear being shifted out of has been disengaged.

Can anyone else here make that claim?  Yeah, its overkill, but it "Just 
Works".

 
> USB work 
> well. It is 10X faster then needed for this purpose.
>
>
> Thge BBB is very atractive because it in effect has the above Pi3 and
> STM32 eqivalent (the PRUs+) all on one board.
>
> The Beagal Bard Blue would be PERFECT as it has low power H-brindges
> and conecters for A/B encodrs on-board.A small mill or router
> would not even need motor drivers.  high-power cables could plug into
> the BBB. (BB Blue)
> But this is a $100 board.  Double the cost
>
> So the entry cost should be under $100 including the PC and smaller
> size motor drivers.
>
> If a person already owned a small notebook PC the entry level price
> should be
> closer to $20.
>
> I've been using these parts to drive motors of all kinds and they are
> "bomb proof"
> you can't kill them.  they have reverse plolarity, short and
> temperaure protection
> It is a simple H-bridge with PWM control.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/30A-Mini-VNH2SP30
link is not found
> 

Re: [Emc-users] possibly good news for LinuxCNC

[Andrew]

чт, 25 квіт. 2019 о 20:52 andy pugh  пише:

> Yes, this is the plan!
> But it would be useful to have an RTAI option too.
>

Sure. I'm trying to follow the discussion here...

>
> > Which image is the latest?
> > linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r13.iso 27-Oct-2018 17:57  1.2G
> > linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64.iso   27-Oct-2018 17:57  1.2G
>
> They are identical. One is a link to the other, so that there can be a
> stable download link as the versions are incremented.
>

Thanks!
I suspected that was the idea... but wasn't sure until I managed to check
the control sums dir. It would be nice to add a note about that.

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Re: [Emc-users] possibly good news for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 17:25, Andrew  wrote:

> > http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/

> It would be great to put this link to the Download section of linuxcnc.org

Yes, this is the plan!
But it would be useful to have an RTAI option too.

> Which image is the latest?
> linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r13.iso 27-Oct-2018 17:57  1.2G
> linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64.iso   27-Oct-2018 17:57  1.2G

They are identical. One is a link to the other, so that there can be a
stable download link as the versions are incremented.


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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[Emc-users] Jeff Pfeifer

[dave engvall]

Hi all,

Does anyone have a current phone number or email for Jeffrey Pfeifer.

I tried an old hotmail account but have not gotten an answer.

TIA

Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] possibly good news for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Chris,
> > I hope at the end of the day, that we don't have to abandon software
> > stepping as thats the lowest cost entry point.
> 
> 
> SOftware stepping on PC hardware with Linux is "hard" but software
> stepping
> otherwise is cheap and easy.
> 
> I have right here on my desk a little machine that uses a Raspberry Pi with
> "stock" Unbuntu 18.04 and it runs two servo DC motors or steppers with
> nearly
> perfect accuracy using a $3 "Real time processor".
> 
> As I type, I'd using Fusion 360 to design an enclosure for the parts and
> connectors.
> I'm looking at a 180x120x40 mm box that house the Pi3 and a driver for up
> to 15 amps
> per motor and do A/B encoder interrups at about 100KHz.  $60 total.
> 
> Size but not cost will be reduced what I can make a custom PCB
> 
> My point is that "cost of entry" need not be a PC with a  Mesa card.
> It could be a Pi3 with one (or more) $3 STM32 board.Both the STM and
> Mesa
> can do steps and read encoders way-faster than is required. USB work
> well. It is 10X faster then needed for this purpose.
> 
> 
> Thge BBB is very atractive because it in effect has the above Pi3 and
> STM32 eqivalent (the PRUs+) all on one board.
> 
> The Beagal Bard Blue would be PERFECT as it has low power H-brindges and
> conecters for A/B encodrs on-board.A small mill or router
> would not even need motor drivers.  high-power cables could plug into the
> BBB. (BB Blue)
> But this is a $100 board.  Double the cost
> 
> So the entry cost should be under $100 including the PC and smaller size
> motor drivers.
> 
> If a person already owned a small notebook PC the entry level price should
> be
> closer to $20.
> 
> I've been using these parts to drive motors of all kinds and they are "bomb
> proof"
> you can't kill them.  they have reverse plolarity, short and temperaure
> protection
> It is a simple H-bridge with PWM control.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/30A-Mini-VNH2SP30
>  Monster-Moto-Shield-module-For-
> Arduino/311579385639?epid=1675425525=item488b941f27:g:~D8AAOS
> wHsRYEv~K>
>  I combine two of the above with one these
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/STM32F103
>  Developmen-Board-Module-Core-Learning-For-
> Arduino/323747797666?hash=item4b60df5aa2:g:ilcAAOSw9m5cAggN>
> and have abuot a $10 total for a universal driver/controller and the PID
> loop and
> encoder inputs are on the $2 STM32..   The STM32 connects to the Pi3 or
> notebook PC with USB.
> 
> I'm slightly frustrated because I'd prefer to see MK run on the above stack
> but it
> doesn't so I have DIY solution.  and Mk?LinuxCNC is confined to the garage.
> 


I have  a real feeling of Déjà vu here.  A discussion on low cost controllers 
to add CNC.  What ultimately ended up resulting in the formation of the 
E-Leadscrew group and my Electronic Lead Screw with all its limitations.   This 
is way back around 2005 or so.  I'd finished building my Gingery Lathe and 
wasn't looking forward to making the dividing head and then a pile of gears so 
I could use it for screw cutting.

One option was MACH3 at the time since the base hardware to control the 
carriage and the cross slide don't change no matter what the size of the lathe. 
 However, used PCs and Flat Screen LCD monitors weren't as inexpensive as they 
are now and all for just power feed and threading it seemed overkill.  There 
were a lot of dissenters. Also if one just wanted to install a  motor on the 
carriage and be instructed on when to move and how far to move the cross slide 
or top slide the full CNC approach seemed a bit much if even possible.

Then there was the user interface side of things.  Some just wanted a couple of 
buttons and maybe an MPG type knob to scroll through menu's much like the 
current crop of 3D printers  (tedious which is why Octoprint on a Pi is so 
attractive -- wouldn't be without it for mine).  

And cost was a really big thing.  The prices you quote weren't even available 
back then.  The Pi and Beagle didn't exist. The other 16/32 bit processor  
options had expensive development environments or in circuit programmers. There 
were still a number of Made in America stepper motor drives with some as low as 
$75.   So the target price of $200 was chosen for the basic ELS with 2 line LCD 
display, 35 keybuttons, MPG knob and single axis 3A 55V micro stepper drive.  

At that time a high res encoder disk for something like a South Bend Heavy 10L 
with a spindle bore of 1.375" and outer diameter of 2" was available for about 
$70.  But one would have to buy 100 of them.  Even just toothed belts and 
pulleys and a high res encoder was well over $100 so the decision to go one 
pulse per revolution like MACH3 was chosen.  Using surplus printer slotted 
sensors.

Contrast that with now.  The OMRON encoder arrived this week.  Although listed 
at $600 at Digikey it was $28.  Belts and pulleys make attaching it to 

Re: [Emc-users] possibly good news for LinuxCNC

[Andrew]

>
> The closest currently is the LinuxCNC + 2.7.14 Stretch ISO here:
>
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/
>
>
It would be great to put this link to the Download section of linuxcnc.org
Which image is the latest?
linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64-r13.iso 27-Oct-2018 17:57  1.2G
or
linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-amd64.iso   27-Oct-2018 17:57  1.2G

Thanks

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Re: [Emc-users] possibly good news for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 02:52, Przemek Klosowski
 wrote:

> It is pretty far along if it got to starting the apache server: the kernel
> booted, the init process must have run a bunch of setup, etc.

After advice from the IRC last night I tried "nomodeset" on the
command line and that did the trick.

I now have the machine booting in to Stretch with a 3.16.52-RTAI kernel.
However at the moment RTAI itself is particularly unstable. The next
step will be to boot the same PC from an older RTAI boot CD to see if
that's a PC thing or my build of RTAI.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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