Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 07 February 2020 23:09:46 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 02/07/2020 11:43 AM, N wrote:
> > Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better
> > there pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First
> > time I heard about the accident there an oil train have
> > crashed then driver was sleeping and left engine on
> > locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later
> > however I learned fire department put out fire and did not
> > know it should be running to keep pressure up, this system
> > is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?
>
> Yes, the catastrophe was in Canada where a freight train
> loaded with oil tank cars was parked on a weekend, the
> locomotive engines were left running so the parking brake
> would continue to hold.  There was no crew on the train.
> One of the locomotives caught fire, the fire crew was called
> and put it out, and they shut off both locomotive engines.
> About 8 hours later the air tanks leaked down, and the train
> rolled downhill and crashed on a curve, essentially burning
> an entire small town to the ground.
>
> As far as I know, the air brake system on trains has not
> been changed very much in the last hundred years, it was
> used on steam locomotives before Diesels.
>
> Jon
>
I think you could probably add another 40 or 50 years Jon, time flies 
when we're having fun.  We have some trackage here running east out of 
Elkins that still needs a Shay or 2 to pull the grades, and I can recall 
driving past a parked, cold Shay with tender and noting every wheel had 
a parking wedge under the downhill side of it. Biggest problem with the 
Shay is its been known to get in a bind on short corners and either 
derail or break its simple u-joints in the drive shaft. Hypnotizing to 
watch one coming up the hill, might get down to 2 or 3 miles an hour but 
they can keep it moving where a normal loco can't find a bite on the 
tracks even with the sanders running.  An amazing machine, built for one 
purpose, to climb a hill.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[Jon Elson]

On 02/07/2020 11:43 AM, N wrote:
Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better 
there pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First 
time I heard about the accident there an oil train have 
crashed then driver was sleeping and left engine on 
locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later 
however I learned fire department put out fire and did not 
know it should be running to keep pressure up, this system 
is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?
Yes, the catastrophe was in Canada where a freight train 
loaded with oil tank cars was parked on a weekend, the 
locomotive engines were left running so the parking brake 
would continue to hold.  There was no crew on the train.  
One of the locomotives caught fire, the fire crew was called 
and put it out, and they shut off both locomotive engines.  
About 8 hours later the air tanks leaked down, and the train 
rolled downhill and crashed on a curve, essentially burning 
an entire small town to the ground.


As far as I know, the air brake system on trains has not 
been changed very much in the last hundred years, it was 
used on steam locomotives before Diesels.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Probing a Profile

[Andy Pugh]

> On 7 Feb 2020, at 23:45, Greg Bernard  wrote:
> 
> That is interesting and useful, but I wonder if probing the important
> features and simply tracing a scan or a photograph of the profile in CAD
> would be quicker and easier for that particular part.

Possibly, but at least this way it is definitely scaled in mm, and furthermore 
the same mm as my mill. 



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Re: [Emc-users] Probing a Profile

[Greg Bernard]

That is interesting and useful, but I wonder if probing the important
features and simply tracing a scan or a photograph of the profile in CAD
would be quicker and easier for that particular part.

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:25 AM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Pretty cool.
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: February-07-20 1:59 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probing a Profile
> >
> > On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 23:52, andy pugh  wrote:
> >
> > > And here is the G-code routine I used.
> >
> > Which is usable, but slightly flawed, in that if the probe _just_
> > catches a corner, the retract distance means that the "i missed"
> > circle can miss the work.
> > So a slight re-think needed there.
> >
> > I made a video of the process, showing how at one corner I needed to
> > poke the probe by hand to get it to find the work.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO8lLaV6pbw
> >
> > I have also just realised that there is a fairly easy way to auto stop
> > using the well-known concept of "winding number" which #1 is
> > accidentally calculating
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_in_polygon#Winding_number_algorith
> > m
> >
> > Rather than O100 WHILE [#<_flood> EQ 0] (use the flood button to stop
> > and save data)
> >
> > I could use O100 WHILE [#1 < 361]
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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-- 
"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world
is either a madman or an economist."
-Kenneth Boulding, economist
Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech!

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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Les Newell]

Hi John,

The mb2hal config file is standard ini format, the same as your config 
ini file. As you can specify the ini file it allows you to use either 
the config ini file or a separate file. It is not in any way compatible 
with hal files.


Les


Then if it's designed to be included into a .hal file why not have it 
be a .hal or .inc? Aside from the fact that it might break millions 
upon millions of LinuxCNC installations.


John





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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO --> reltime serial but Ethercat worse

[N]

> > With how cheap realtime i/o is - I don't see the a lure of modbus.
> 
> Modbus non-realtime should be plenty fast enough for spindle control 
> unless you are doing position control of the spindle. I'm not sure about 
> RTAI but if you are using preempt-rt mb2hal should be pretty close to 
> real time.

Think preempt-rt is good enough for ordinary UART but expect exception for 
example if connected via USB.

However think Ethernet is not perfect, maybe only small delay minutes or so in 
between but still not perfect. Have done hal delay test and it's fine. If I 
remember correct there are however some delay then using Ethernet minutes in 
between or so, this might be because other Linux processes related to network 
is running so something else sent sometimes, did not yet have time to check 
this carefully. In doubt delay is long enough to have any effect on part 
quality.


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[N]

> My 2 cents.  For some things non-realtime i/o is fine.  I have seen too
> many times where someone is maybe controlling a spindle and wonders why a
> change in direction takes so long and or isn't consistent.  Once they
> switch over to something realtime (+/-10v or pwm) the issue goes away.

Heard story about delays of brakes on trains then toilet started to get full 
there was a switch toggling but not sure if it was true, probably need a 
passive system there signal must arrive within some specified time or brakes 
are applied. Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better there 
pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First time I heard about the 
accident there an oil train have crashed then driver was sleeping and left 
engine on locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later however I 
learned fire department put out fire and did not know it should be running to 
keep pressure up, this system is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[John Dammeyer]

Then if it's designed to be included into a .hal file why not have it be a .hal 
or .inc?  Aside from the fact that it might break millions upon millions of 
LinuxCNC installations.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February-07-20 5:30 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO
> 
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 12:42, Les Newell  wrote:
> 
> > You can specify the machine config ini file if you wish. The mb2hal ini
> > file namespace does not conflict with anything else in the machine config.
> 
> That seems like a good reason for it to be a .ini file rather than
> (say) a .mb file then.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> Sent: February-07-20 4:40 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO
> 
> > With how cheap realtime i/o is - I don't see the a lure of modbus.
> 
> Modbus non-realtime should be plenty fast enough for spindle control
> unless you are doing position control of the spindle. I'm not sure about
> RTAI but if you are using preempt-rt mb2hal should be pretty close to
> real time.
> 
> It's also great for user interface stuff. For instance both my mill and
> lathe have Modbus front panels with 20+ buttons, numerous indicator
> lights as well as a number of analog controls.
> 
> For jog wheel I have to agree, a direct realtime input is the way to go.
> Modbus jog wheel should work but it won't be as smooth.
> 
> > It's a bit unusual in that mb2hal consumes an INI file, but it is not
> > the same INI file as defines the LinuxCNC machine config.
> You can specify the machine config ini file if you wish. The mb2hal ini
> file namespace does not conflict with anything else in the machine config.
> 
> Les
> 

Under MACH3 now that I finally have the ModIO MPG working I can report that 
it's not as smooth as my USB based pendant.  But then 56k baud isn't the same 
at 6Mbps that USB uses.

 I would imagine if I connected the quadrature MPG knob directly to a second 
parallel port I'd also see better response in MACH3.

But that requires adding a low profile PP board.  The one I have I works under 
WIN-7 but not WIN-XP (it's just too old and no drivers exist) and IIRC, I had 
problems discovering it under LinuxCNC too.  Hence the purchase of the the MESA 
7i92H.

Anyway, first step is just to get the MODBus stuff working and the ModIO is as 
good a product as any.  Long term I want a CAN bus on my mill for tool changing 
etc.  But that's because I have been using CAN bus for almost 30 years and I 
believe still have the record for the largest one shown on my home page (over 
1500 nodes).
http://www.autoartisans.com/

John





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Re: [Emc-users] Probing a Profile

[John Dammeyer]

Pretty cool.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February-07-20 1:59 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probing a Profile
> 
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 23:52, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
> > And here is the G-code routine I used.
> 
> Which is usable, but slightly flawed, in that if the probe _just_
> catches a corner, the retract distance means that the "i missed"
> circle can miss the work.
> So a slight re-think needed there.
> 
> I made a video of the process, showing how at one corner I needed to
> poke the probe by hand to get it to find the work.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO8lLaV6pbw
> 
> I have also just realised that there is a fairly easy way to auto stop
> using the well-known concept of "winding number" which #1 is
> accidentally calculating
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_in_polygon#Winding_number_algorith
> m
> 
> Rather than O100 WHILE [#<_flood> EQ 0] (use the flood button to stop
> and save data)
> 
> I could use O100 WHILE [#1 < 361]
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Todd Zuercher]

Probably not, since it is more or less just an example configuration file with 
significant annotation.

I was able to muddle my way through it to set up a machine.  But I would find 
it difficult to improve upon it.  I think the problem is less with Mb2hal, than 
it is just the scattered un organized nature of configuring Modbus devises in 
general.  The real difficulty is gathering, digesting, and using the required 
documentation for your Modbus device.  Every one is different and each has 
their own quirks and idiosyncrasies that have to be figured out.  Mostly the 
real trick is figuring out how pick out and manipulate individual bits or 
partial words from larger register words.  If your device doesn't have good 
Modbus documentation, it is almost hopeless to figure it out.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2020 2:03 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February-06-20 10:29 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 18:23, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> > So maybe what is needed is a "MODbus and LinuxCNC for Dummies"
> document that takes one through the steps of connecting a MODbus 
> device like a ModIO or a Servo Drive with published MODBus register 
> descriptions all through to using them in the HAL and even including 
> display information on the Axis Screen.
>
> Have you seen: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/drivers/mb2hal.html
>
Yes.
Option 3 looks interesting.
If someone submitted that page to a magazine as an article on how to use MB2HAL 
do you think an editor would publish it as is?

Whether it be Elektor Magazine, Circuit Cellar Magazine, Nuts and Volts,  
Everyday Practical Electronics, Home Shop Machiist, Model Engineer's Workshop, 
etc.  the format leaves way too much to be learned in other places.

The page doesn't stand alone.  So it's a great reference for those who already 
know how to do it.  Not so much for someone who doesn't.  And once one knows 
how to do it, it's hard to take a step backwards to when they didn't.

For example from that document.
#Using HAL_MODULE_NAME=mb2hal or nothing (default): loadusr -W mb2hal 
config=config_file.ini

Is the loadusr command entered in the HAL file, the INI file or entered on the 
command line.  Should LinuxCNC be running if it's entered on the command line?

If the example config file named mb2hal.ini?  I see loadrt commands in the .hal 
file for my parallel port implementation.  I don't see any load files of type 
ini.

In my parallel port hal file I have the line.
# -- Modbus support --
#loadrt classicladder_rt numPhysInputs=15 numPhysOutputs=15 numS32in=10 
numS32out=10 numFloatIn=10 numFloatOut=10

Now what?

The display on the RHS of the AXIS screen in that page I referenced I believe 
is created with the XML file.  That's missing too.

See what I mean.  Way more questions than answers.

John


> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is 
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and 
> lunatics."
>   George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 12:42, Les Newell  wrote:

> You can specify the machine config ini file if you wish. The mb2hal ini
> file namespace does not conflict with anything else in the machine config.

That seems like a good reason for it to be a .ini file rather than
(say) a .mb file then.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] How to add new records to Latency-Test wiki

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 13:14, Marius Alksnys  wrote:

> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test, while I forgot
> the secret name of our mascot.

"Chips"

Which is why the penguin-making sample G-code file is called "3Dchips"

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] How to add new records to Latency-Test wiki

[Marius Alksnys]

I am making some latency-tests on different PCs. I would like to publish 
some results..


I am trying to log-in to 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test, while I forgot 
the secret name of our mascot.





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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Les Newell]

With how cheap realtime i/o is - I don't see the a lure of modbus.


Modbus non-realtime should be plenty fast enough for spindle control 
unless you are doing position control of the spindle. I'm not sure about 
RTAI but if you are using preempt-rt mb2hal should be pretty close to 
real time.


It's also great for user interface stuff. For instance both my mill and 
lathe have Modbus front panels with 20+ buttons, numerous indicator 
lights as well as a number of analog controls.


For jog wheel I have to agree, a direct realtime input is the way to go. 
Modbus jog wheel should work but it won't be as smooth.



It's a bit unusual in that mb2hal consumes an INI file, but it is not
the same INI file as defines the LinuxCNC machine config.
You can specify the machine config ini file if you wish. The mb2hal ini 
file namespace does not conflict with anything else in the machine config.


Les



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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

[Erik Christiansen]

On 04.02.20 10:09, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 02/04/2020 09:17 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> > Aside from the stress and consternation in the LinuxCNC world about the
> > logo I like the new name a lot better.
> Yes, unless you have to type the longer name 20+ times a day!

Any good text editor will have labour saving options. Using vim within
mutt for composing posts, I have an abbreviation:

iab ;l LinuxCNC

automatically enabled only when needed, so that the abbreviation can
be used for other purposes in other contexts.

Vim's "autocommand" feature is one easy way to automate different
abbreviations for different edit files or filepaths.

It was my preference for a bit of case emphasis in the name which
convinced me that the abbreviation was useful.

Oh, yes, if a document is needed, I compose it in the text editor, then
import and fontify only at the last moment - for speed and ease. (The
vim spellchecker is also easier to customise and use for several
languages.)

Erik


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Re: [Emc-users] Probing a Profile

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 23:52, andy pugh  wrote:

> And here is the G-code routine I used.

Which is usable, but slightly flawed, in that if the probe _just_
catches a corner, the retract distance means that the "i missed"
circle can miss the work.
So a slight re-think needed there.

I made a video of the process, showing how at one corner I needed to
poke the probe by hand to get it to find the work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO8lLaV6pbw

I have also just realised that there is a fairly easy way to auto stop
using the well-known concept of "winding number" which #1 is
accidentally calculating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_in_polygon#Winding_number_algorithm

Rather than O100 WHILE [#<_flood> EQ 0] (use the flood button to stop
and save data)

I could use O100 WHILE [#1 < 361]

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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