Re: [Emc-users] OT: getting an auction purchase shipped

[Mark Johnsen]

Just be aware that an auction house won't care about your machine as much
as you would...  They only care about expending the least amount of energy
and no money...

Mark

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 6:14 PM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 06/20/2020 04:52 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:
> > i spotted an item on bitspotter.com that i would like to
> > bit on
> > if i where to win the auction how do i go about getting it
> > shipped
> >
> If this is with a commercial auction house, send them email
> or call.
> They probably have a lot of items that are bought out of
> town and have to
> be shipped.  They should know what would be required.
>
> Bidspotter is just a clearing house, like eBay, that makes
> listings by commercial
> auctioneers available online.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: getting an auction purchase shipped

[Chris Albertson]

How to ship depends on what you bought.  It is a 900-pound machine or a
small cable?  I've sold both.

In the case of a 900 pound machine the buyer hired a trucking company and
the truck showed up at my place with a forklift.  Another time I sold a
very large air compressor and told the buyer "It is bolted onto the
concrete floor, come and get it." So three guys show up with tools and
dismantle it, removing the motor and then the compressor from the tank
loading each part onto a dolly than the truck. The buyers hire a
freight forwarding company.  There are freight brokers who will handle the
details.

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 2:54 PM grumpy--- via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> i spotted an item on bitspotter.com that i would like to bit on
> if i where to win the auction how do i go about getting it shipped
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: getting an auction purchase shipped

[Jon Elson]

On 06/20/2020 04:52 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:
i spotted an item on bitspotter.com that i would like to 
bit on
if i where to win the auction how do i go about getting it 
shipped


If this is with a commercial auction house, send them email 
or call.
They probably have a lot of items that are bought out of 
town and have to

be shipped.  They should know what would be required.

Bidspotter is just a clearing house, like eBay, that makes 
listings by commercial

auctioneers available online.

Jon


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[Emc-users] OT: getting an auction purchase shipped

[grumpy--- via Emc-users]

i spotted an item on bitspotter.com that i would like to bit on
if i where to win the auction how do i go about getting it shipped


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 22:29, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> How are the sensors attached?  Are they screwed directly to the steel
> housing or is there some kind of plate that all three attach to?

It was a long time ago, and I sold that machine, but I think that they
were screwed direct to the top plate.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Chris Albertson]

This fits my budget criteria for sure.

How are the sensors attached?  Are they screwed directly to the steel
housing or is there some kind of plate that all three attach to?

After seeing this I can think of other ways.  For one, the slotted disk
could be printed.

As for the question about if this could work on a 10,000 RPM spindle.  I
think my opinion now is "maybe".  Some optical sensors have a 15 uS rise
and fall time which limits them to about 20KHz but some have a 1uS
rise/fall.  You have to read the specs.   At 10,000 RPM the slot is so
small.  The 15 uS times require cutting maybe 1/4 of the disk away to make
a "slot".  I've seen this and actually own a couple of small motors with 90
degree wide slots and, guess what? These are from the 1990's and spin at
12K RPM.   So optical works at high speed but you have "paddles" and not
disks used for interrupters

You can also gain better high-speed performance with better signal
processing techniques even with poor sensors.

But for over 10K RPM, I'd write the software to simply ignore the
high-resolution pulses and use only the index sensor at the high speeds.

Place the index pulse on the OUTSIDE of the disk by cutting away 180
degrees of the disk and use about 40 holes for the A/B  With 180 degree
wide slot it should work at very high speed.   Just make it balanced.

But in my case the make sped is only 2400 RPM.  I can used off the self
Chinese eBay sensor.

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:30 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 19:40, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
>
> > My plan is to make the sensor removable with no tools so the user can
> > access the drawbar.
>
> Here is another way to do it. Sadly I don't have a still, and the
> video is out of focus:
> https://youtu.be/ZhICrb0Tbn4?t=22
> But the encoder there is an aluminium top-hat that fits under the
> locknuts then squeezes round them to present teeth for optos.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 19:40, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> My plan is to make the sensor removable with no tools so the user can
> access the drawbar.

Here is another way to do it. Sadly I don't have a still, and the
video is out of focus:
https://youtu.be/ZhICrb0Tbn4?t=22
But the encoder there is an aluminium top-hat that fits under the
locknuts then squeezes round them to present teeth for optos.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Chris Albertson]

Yes,   You can even make a 3D printed disk and have holes around the edge
and press sections of drill-rod into the holes and let the bits of metal
rod trigger the sensor.   Make say 40 holes around the edge and one hole
near the hub for the index sensor.

Skate board bearing are about the right size, let the disk spin on a paitr
of these bearings andbe driven by the 17mm hex head on the draw bar.

My plan is to make the sensor removable with no tools so the user can
access the drawbar.  Same idea could work with a DIY magnetic sensor.
You could even make the sensor with fine wire.

One more idea for a spindle speed sensor:   Why not simply use a current
sensor of the power lead going to the motor? This would for-sure work on a
brushless motor and I bet could be made to work on a brushed motor too.
Basically use the motor commutator as a sensor.

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:02 AM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 06/19/2020 11:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > And they work great, on ferrous gears, but they are all nylon in that
> > machine.
> >
> Well, of course, they don't have to be ACTUAL gears.  You
> could make a thin steel disc with notches, and it would
> still trip the sensor.
>
> Jon
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Jon Elson]

On 06/19/2020 11:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

And they work great, on ferrous gears, but they are all nylon in that
machine.

Well, of course, they don't have to be ACTUAL gears.  You 
could make a thin steel disc with notches, and it would 
still trip the sensor.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 at 19:40, Chris Albertson  wrote:
>
> I'm making good progress on my 3D printed CNC conversion.  I found a way to
> 3D print a spindle controller that should work for most small milling
> machines and small lathes.

Another alternative is a digital potentiometer:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X9C104-Digital-Potentiometer-Module-100-Potentiometers-For-Arduino-/401571443553
These use a step-dir interface.

But... looking at the data sheet they only withstand a few V between
Vss and the potentiometer pins, so they are not much use for KBIC
controllers.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Ken Strauss]

Hardware is Tormach 770 with Mesa 7i92

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 5:17 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>
> On Saturday 20 June 2020 00:20:46 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
>
> > Just a thought:
> >
> > Since the index pulse is only one PPR, does it keep working and is it
> > readable right up to 10k rpm? If so, you could first read the index
> > pulse; if speed> threshold, multiply index by encoder ppr and connect
> > that to encoder in; if speed < threshold (-hysteresis?), connect main
> > pulse to encoder input.
> >
> > I'm writing this having no idea what kind of hardware you have or if
> > it's even possible.
> >
> > > On Jun 19, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Jon Elson 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > ?On 06/19/2020 10:30 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > >>> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 04:05, Ken Strauss 
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd
> > >>> like to leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm
> > >>> concerning about it surviving at high RPM.
> > >>
> > >> My guess would be that it won't explode, it will just stop
> > >> counting. And that probably isn't actually a problem.
> > >>
> > >> Qou only really care about accurate counting at low speeds.
> > >
> > > Well, I have a spindle RPM display on a PyVCP on my mill, it is nice
> > > to check that I'm getting the right speed.
> > >
> > > Jon
>
> It seems to me that if a 1000 line ABZ encoder was geared down 4/1, that
> the .ini file SCALE for the spindle would then be 1000, not 4000,
>
> and if the geardown was an integer divisor, like 4, the index pulse
> generated would still be coherent to the spindle position, and would be
> the equ of missing the index for 3 of the 4 rotations, but the 4th would
> trigger a rigid tap cycle that with the 1000 scale, would still do the
> correct G33.1 tap cycle since I have been told that the ONLY thing the
> index is used for is the cycle start point.
>
> If the SCALE is 1000, not the 4000 it would be for a 1/1 correspondence,
> the only side effect would that when arriving at the starting position
> and waiting for an index, it might wait as much as 3 turns, but should
> still fire on the index and do its thing, executing a normal rigid tap
> cycle.
>
> So tell me why it wouldn't work...  And I don't think thats thinking that
> far outside the box.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 20 June 2020 00:20:46 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> Just a thought:
>
> Since the index pulse is only one PPR, does it keep working and is it
> readable right up to 10k rpm? If so, you could first read the index
> pulse; if speed> threshold, multiply index by encoder ppr and connect
> that to encoder in; if speed < threshold (-hysteresis?), connect main
> pulse to encoder input.
>
> I’m writing this having no idea what kind of hardware you have or if
> it’s even possible.
>
> > On Jun 19, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Jon Elson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > On 06/19/2020 10:30 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 04:05, Ken Strauss 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd
> >>> like to leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm
> >>> concerning about it surviving at high RPM.
> >>
> >> My guess would be that it won't explode, it will just stop
> >> counting. And that probably isn't actually a problem.
> >>
> >> Qou only really care about accurate counting at low speeds.
> >
> > Well, I have a spindle RPM display on a PyVCP on my mill, it is nice
> > to check that I'm getting the right speed.
> >
> > Jon

It seems to me that if a 1000 line ABZ encoder was geared down 4/1, that 
the .ini file SCALE for the spindle would then be 1000, not 4000, 

and if the geardown was an integer divisor, like 4, the index pulse 
generated would still be coherent to the spindle position, and would be 
the equ of missing the index for 3 of the 4 rotations, but the 4th would 
trigger a rigid tap cycle that with the 1000 scale, would still do the 
correct G33.1 tap cycle since I have been told that the ONLY thing the 
index is used for is the cycle start point.

If the SCALE is 1000, not the 4000 it would be for a 1/1 correspondence, 
the only side effect would that when arriving at the starting position 
and waiting for an index, it might wait as much as 3 turns, but should 
still fire on the index and do its thing, executing a normal rigid tap 
cycle.

So tell me why it wouldn't work...  And I don't think thats thinking that 
far outside the box.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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