Re: [Emc-users] DC Servo issues

[Bari]

On 9/19/21 00:44, John Dammeyer wrote:


Over 10 years ago I bought two of these for the XY axis of the mill.
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/dc-servo-motor/nema34-1125ozin-dual-shaft-servo-motor



One of the things that showed up right away was that with identical drives one 
motor ran hotter than the other.  Further investigation showed the resistance 
of the windings was different with the warmer motor having the lower resistance 
and inductance which matched the spec sheet.  By then it was too late to return 
the high resistance one so I decided to put what appeared to be the on spec 
motor on the Y axis since it had to carry more weight.  The X axis got the 
cooler and higher resistance motor.
Especially since AutomationTechnologies wouldn't replace the motor even though 
it was clearly out of spec.  Not about to buy anything else from them.



They are local for me. The owner is a nice enough guy but he also 
problems with getting reliable consistent parts from his homeland.


I only buy things from them that I expect to be like a kit that needs to 
be cleaned and assembled properly before use. I have had to return 
radial bearings with detents and linear bearings with crud inside or 
flat spots. We call them crunchy bearings. CNC mills come with red oxide 
treated fasteners and without nuts on the end of ballscrews so you can't 
adjust preloads unless you shim or replace with proper screws. Cables 
are assembled without the use of strain reliefs.


Red oxide treated fasteners  https://postimg.cc/jnhmsRhq

No strain relief  https://postimg.cc/7bqwTvvy

1mm of lash  https://postimg.cc/w1bvqpWk




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[Emc-users] DC Servo issues

[John Dammeyer]

Over 10 years ago I bought two of these for the XY axis of the mill. 
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/dc-servo-motor/nema34-1125ozin-dual-shaft-servo-motor

Also from US Digital the 250 line encoders.
I had assembled HP_UHU kits and had on standby the Henrik Olsson replacement 
PIC processor modules although this photo shows the original processor.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/HP_UHU_Modified.jpg

One of the things that showed up right away was that with identical drives one 
motor ran hotter than the other.  Further investigation showed the resistance 
of the windings was different with the warmer motor having the lower resistance 
and inductance which matched the spec sheet.  By then it was too late to return 
the high resistance one so I decided to put what appeared to be the on spec 
motor on the Y axis since it had to carry more weight.  The X axis got the 
cooler and higher resistance motor.

When I finally got it all together I had a lot of position errors and Henrik 
convinced me to trash the US Digital encoders which appeared to be losing 
counts and replace them with the CUI.  Changing to Henrik's module improved 
things and positioning was now reasonably accurate.  Until a short while ago on 
the X axis.

I pulled the encoder off remounted things and the problem seemed to go away.  
Well last week, after the center drilled holes were off from where the 1/4" 
drill bit went down I realized the problem had returned.  After much mucking 
around it seems that the real issue is still with that X axis out of spec motor.

What I did is swap motor+encoder from X <=> Y.  The cumulative position errors 
on X are now gone so that shows the HP_UHU drive was not the issue.  What's 
really interesting is the heavier Y axis now regularly faults at 140 ipm where 
before the other motor could do 150 ipm. 

Also interesting when I drop the speeds to below 130 it doesn't fault but I 
started seeing position errors.

The G-Code test program
G01 X0 Y0 F60
X-4
Y-1.1
Y0
X0 
Y-1.1
Y0
X5
And so on for about 5 cycles.

Now the X axis returns to 0 every single time from either side of 0.  But the Y 
axis accumulates -0.020 or so error every time the program runs just like X 
used to with that motor.  Always only negative values.  So strange.

Also when that motor was on the X axis the sound of the system when changing 
direction was clunky sounding in one direction and not the other under G-Code.  
The change direction with jogging keys wasn't like that.  

I don't think it's worthwhile to spend the time to figure out what's wrong.  
Seems pointless to continue to use a motor that isn't up to spec.  Probably 
better to just install one of the Bergerda AC Servos I have here that I was 
saving for the Ball Screw upgrade.  Especially since AutomationTechnologies 
wouldn't replace the motor even though it was clearly out of spec.  Not about 
to buy anything else from them.  

John Dammeyer




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Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Curtis Dutton]

It is an incremental. Magnetic sensor. Gear tooth with I think 256 teeth.
One sin/cos cycle per tooth.

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 10:56 PM Ralph Stirling 
wrote:

> A lot of very high resolution, and older encoders have
> sine wave gratings, which give sine and cosine waveforms
> on the A and B channels.  These are connected to an
> interpolator box that contains A/D converters and logic
> to generate quadrature pulses.  The higher the interpolation
> ratio, the lower the max velocity allowed.
>
> -- Ralph
> 
> From: Gene Heskett [ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 5:22 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles
>
> I don't think you have an encoder, but a resolver. If you are getting one
> sinesoid per full turn, its a resolver.
>
> > Anyhow it doesn't work and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the black
> > box. I have the manuals and I have tried various combinations of the
> > dip swithches inside.
> >
> > does anyone have any troubleshooting tips or stories about their use
> > of an interpolater box?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >Curt
> >
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> >
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>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgeneslinuxbox.net%3A6309%2Fgene&data=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C5a5b014bf3fc4481176208d97b03a93b%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637676077932698528%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=HxeTFPS47gukrRBopVJJ939Wg4sEwHPPRremv092Uy0%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Ralph Stirling]

A lot of very high resolution, and older encoders have
sine wave gratings, which give sine and cosine waveforms
on the A and B channels.  These are connected to an
interpolator box that contains A/D converters and logic
to generate quadrature pulses.  The higher the interpolation
ratio, the lower the max velocity allowed.

-- Ralph

From: Gene Heskett [ghesk...@shentel.net]
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 5:22 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

I don't think you have an encoder, but a resolver. If you are getting one
sinesoid per full turn, its a resolver.

> Anyhow it doesn't work and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the black
> box. I have the manuals and I have tried various combinations of the
> dip swithches inside.
>
> does anyone have any troubleshooting tips or stories about their use
> of an interpolater box?
>
>
> Thanks,
>Curt
>
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Eric Keller]

I didn't see the manual online.  Some of their older boxes had
potentiometer adjustments internally so that the signal would be
recognized. We had a cnc machine where if one of the axes went out, the fix
was to fiddle with the pots. Otherwise, I have very little knowledge about
them.
Eric Keller
Boalsburg, Pennsylvania


On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 7:42 PM Curtis Dutton  wrote:

> So I have a fanuc spindle motor with an MZ hall effect encoder on it.
>
> I'm attempting to interface that via an IBV 610 to a quadrature encoder.
>
> I have no experience with these and I'm trying to figure out what is going
> wrong.
>
> The encoder runs on 5v and has A,A* and B,B* signals.
>
> the a*,b* pins output a refernace voltage of 2.5v. The a and B pins vary
> sinusoidally from 2.2v to 2.8 v. If you measure across a to a* (or b to b*)
> you get -.3v to .3v.
>
> I think that this is what is called a 1vpp signal. (am I wrong?)
>
> Anyhow I hooked up all of the signals from encoder to ibv box through to
> the quadrature encoder input. I have double checked all pins, power is
> being delivered to everything and the sinusiod signals are getting back to
> the interpolate box.
>
> Anyhow it doesn't work and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the black box.
> I have the manuals and I have tried various combinations of the dip
> swithches inside.
>
> does anyone have any troubleshooting tips or stories about their use of an
> interpolater box?
>
>
> Thanks,
>Curt
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 18 September 2021 19:40:02 Curtis Dutton wrote:

> So I have a fanuc spindle motor with an MZ hall effect encoder on it.
>
> I'm attempting to interface that via an IBV 610 to a quadrature
> encoder.
>
> I have no experience with these and I'm trying to figure out what is
> going wrong.
>
> The encoder runs on 5v and has A,A* and B,B* signals.
>
> the a*,b* pins output a refernace voltage of 2.5v. The a and B pins
> vary sinusoidally from 2.2v to 2.8 v. If you measure across a to a*
> (or b to b*) you get -.3v to .3v.
>
> I think that this is what is called a 1vpp signal. (am I wrong?)
>
> Anyhow I hooked up all of the signals from encoder to ibv box through
> to the quadrature encoder input. I have double checked all pins, power
> is being delivered to everything and the sinusiod signals are getting
> back to the interpolate box.
>
I don't think you have an encoder, but a resolver. If you are getting one 
sinesoid per full turn, its a resolver.

> Anyhow it doesn't work and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the black
> box. I have the manuals and I have tried various combinations of the
> dip swithches inside.
>
> does anyone have any troubleshooting tips or stories about their use
> of an interpolater box?
>
>
> Thanks,
>Curt
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Curtis Dutton]

So I have a fanuc spindle motor with an MZ hall effect encoder on it.

I'm attempting to interface that via an IBV 610 to a quadrature encoder.

I have no experience with these and I'm trying to figure out what is going
wrong.

The encoder runs on 5v and has A,A* and B,B* signals.

the a*,b* pins output a refernace voltage of 2.5v. The a and B pins vary
sinusoidally from 2.2v to 2.8 v. If you measure across a to a* (or b to b*)
you get -.3v to .3v.

I think that this is what is called a 1vpp signal. (am I wrong?)

Anyhow I hooked up all of the signals from encoder to ibv box through to
the quadrature encoder input. I have double checked all pins, power is
being delivered to everything and the sinusiod signals are getting back to
the interpolate box.

Anyhow it doesn't work and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the black box.
I have the manuals and I have tried various combinations of the dip
swithches inside.

does anyone have any troubleshooting tips or stories about their use of an
interpolater box?


Thanks,
   Curt

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