Re: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???

[Sam Sokolik]

that looks crispy...


On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 2:25 PM Alan Condit  wrote:

> Andy, Chris, Dave and Jon,
>
> Here is a link to the photo .
> I guess it was too big to post directly.
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 11:18 AM Alan Condit  wrote:
>
> > Chris, Andy, and Dave,
> >
> > I guess I didn’t give enough info. I built this controller in 2005 for my
> > lathe. I used it on my lathe until a couple of years ago when I added
> > another drive and switched this controller over to my PCBmill and X2 Mini
> > mill. I built a new controller for my lathe using a Mesa 5i25/7i76 pair
> so
> > I could control spindle speed. The picture shows the two blown out parts.
> > This controller worked for 15 years before letting the smoke out. I agree
> > Andy, that it is difficult for a fault to continue to generate steps but
> > that is what happened. It is possible that there was a design flaw but it
> > worked for 15 years.
> >  In the program where things went bad the X-axis should not have been
> > moving but it was. I was cutting a bushing for a keyway broach. For quite
> > awhile everything was going fine and then suddenly it began to cut into
> the
> > X direction when it was traveling in the Y direction. Then I saw smoke
> > coming out of the controller box.
> > Jon Elson suggested that I may have blown out the parallel port which
> > seems likely to me now that I think about the way it is behaving now.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> >> -- Forwarded message --
> >> From: Alan Condit 
> >> To: EMC-Users 
> >> Cc:
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 09:49:43 -0500
> >> Subject: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???
> >> Hi Guys,
> >>
> >> I was machining a part on my X2 Minimill. Suddenly it left the
> programmed
> >> track (spoiled the part) and didn’t respond to Estop. I powered the
> system
> >> off manually raised the Z axis and tried turning it on so I could home
> it,
> >> smoke started coming from the controller. So I powered everything down
> and
> >> started troubleshooting.
> >> There were two chips on the CandCNC Mini-IO BOB that had let out the
> >> magic smoke. I had a spare BOB that I built using the Gecko G540
> schematic.
> >> So I replaced the other BOB with it. The drives in the controller are
> >> Superior Electric SS2000MD4 drives.
> >>
> >> When I got everything put back together and checked the wiring
> everything
> >> looked good so I tried powering it up. When I tried homing it the traces
> >> move in AXIS but there is no movement on the machine. The motors hold
> >> position so the output of the drives is active. Is it likely that I blew
> >> out the inputs on the drives?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Alan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Forwarded message --
> >> From: Chris Albertson 
> >> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> >> Cc:
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 08:59:53 -0700
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???
> >> There is a good chance there was a wiring error in you original setup.
> >> The
> >> fact the E-stop did not work tells me there was a design error.  E-Stop
> >> should never fail, or rather if it does fail, the machine stops.  If the
> >> inputs on the drivers are blown, that says the same thing.  Smaething
> was
> >> wrong as that should never happen.
> >>
> >> Diagnosing a system that has a design fault is really hard because our
> >> brain tends to think of how a correct machine would function or how the
> >> machine we THOUGHT we built should function.
> >>
> >> The best plan is to ignore LCNC the BOB and all for now and see if you
> can
> >> drive the motor drivers with a simple signal generator and no computer.
> >>  If this does not work, you need to replace or repair the drivers before
> >> you think about reconnecting a computer.   If you need to buy some test
> >> equipment, now is the time.At least a cheap square wave signal
> >> generator and a cheap $12 logic analyzer t go with your multimeter.
> >>
> >> Finally, you should draw a schematic of how you propose to connect the
> >> computer and post it here for others to review.   They will check if
> >> nothing else the e-stop design to see that it is failsafe and also check
> >> that you have the power and computer parts properly isolated.   It seems
> >> this may not have been the case in the past, and you don't want to
> simply
> >> put it back the way it was.
> >>
> >> First step is to verify the motors and drivers work independently of
> >> computer control.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Chris Albertson
> >> Redondo Beach, California
> >>
> >> -- Forwarded message --
> >> From: andy pugh 
> >> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> >> Cc:
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 21:23:48 +0100
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???
> >> On Sun, 1 May 2022 at 15:53, Alan Condit  wrote:
> >>
> >> > I was machining a part on my X2 Minimill. 

Re: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???

[Alan Condit]

Andy, Chris, Dave and Jon,

Here is a link to the photo .
I guess it was too big to post directly.

Alan


On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 11:18 AM Alan Condit  wrote:

> Chris, Andy, and Dave,
>
> I guess I didn’t give enough info. I built this controller in 2005 for my
> lathe. I used it on my lathe until a couple of years ago when I added
> another drive and switched this controller over to my PCBmill and X2 Mini
> mill. I built a new controller for my lathe using a Mesa 5i25/7i76 pair so
> I could control spindle speed. The picture shows the two blown out parts.
> This controller worked for 15 years before letting the smoke out. I agree
> Andy, that it is difficult for a fault to continue to generate steps but
> that is what happened. It is possible that there was a design flaw but it
> worked for 15 years.
>  In the program where things went bad the X-axis should not have been
> moving but it was. I was cutting a bushing for a keyway broach. For quite
> awhile everything was going fine and then suddenly it began to cut into the
> X direction when it was traveling in the Y direction. Then I saw smoke
> coming out of the controller box.
> Jon Elson suggested that I may have blown out the parallel port which
> seems likely to me now that I think about the way it is behaving now.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Alan Condit 
>> To: EMC-Users 
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 09:49:43 -0500
>> Subject: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I was machining a part on my X2 Minimill. Suddenly it left the programmed
>> track (spoiled the part) and didn’t respond to Estop. I powered the system
>> off manually raised the Z axis and tried turning it on so I could home it,
>> smoke started coming from the controller. So I powered everything down and
>> started troubleshooting.
>> There were two chips on the CandCNC Mini-IO BOB that had let out the
>> magic smoke. I had a spare BOB that I built using the Gecko G540 schematic.
>> So I replaced the other BOB with it. The drives in the controller are
>> Superior Electric SS2000MD4 drives.
>>
>> When I got everything put back together and checked the wiring everything
>> looked good so I tried powering it up. When I tried homing it the traces
>> move in AXIS but there is no movement on the machine. The motors hold
>> position so the output of the drives is active. Is it likely that I blew
>> out the inputs on the drives?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Chris Albertson 
>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 08:59:53 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???
>> There is a good chance there was a wiring error in you original setup.
>> The
>> fact the E-stop did not work tells me there was a design error.  E-Stop
>> should never fail, or rather if it does fail, the machine stops.  If the
>> inputs on the drivers are blown, that says the same thing.  Smaething was
>> wrong as that should never happen.
>>
>> Diagnosing a system that has a design fault is really hard because our
>> brain tends to think of how a correct machine would function or how the
>> machine we THOUGHT we built should function.
>>
>> The best plan is to ignore LCNC the BOB and all for now and see if you can
>> drive the motor drivers with a simple signal generator and no computer.
>>  If this does not work, you need to replace or repair the drivers before
>> you think about reconnecting a computer.   If you need to buy some test
>> equipment, now is the time.At least a cheap square wave signal
>> generator and a cheap $12 logic analyzer t go with your multimeter.
>>
>> Finally, you should draw a schematic of how you propose to connect the
>> computer and post it here for others to review.   They will check if
>> nothing else the e-stop design to see that it is failsafe and also check
>> that you have the power and computer parts properly isolated.   It seems
>> this may not have been the case in the past, and you don't want to simply
>> put it back the way it was.
>>
>> First step is to verify the motors and drivers work independently of
>> computer control.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Albertson
>> Redondo Beach, California
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: andy pugh 
>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 21:23:48 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???
>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 at 15:53, Alan Condit  wrote:
>>
>> > I was machining a part on my X2 Minimill. Suddenly it left the
>> programmed track (spoiled the part)
>>
>> How? It is almost impossible for a fault to cause extra steps. Does it
>> appear that one axis simply stopped moving?
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution 

Re: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???

[Alan Condit]

Chris, Andy, and Dave,

I guess I didn’t give enough info. I built this controller in 2005 for my 
lathe. I used it on my lathe until a couple of years ago when I added another 
drive and switched this controller over to my PCBmill and X2 Mini mill. I built 
a new controller for my lathe using a Mesa 5i25/7i76 pair so I could control 
spindle speed. The picture shows the two blown out parts. This controller 
worked for 15 years before letting the smoke out. I agree Andy, that it is 
difficult for a fault to continue to generate steps but that is what happened. 
It is possible that there was a design flaw but it worked for 15 years.
 In the program where things went bad the X-axis should not have been moving 
but it was. I was cutting a bushing for a keyway broach. For quite awhile 
everything was going fine and then suddenly it began to cut into the X 
direction when it was traveling in the Y direction. Then I saw smoke coming out 
of the controller box.
Jon Elson suggested that I may have blown out the parallel port which seems 
likely to me now that I think about the way it is behaving now.

Alan




-- Forwarded message --
From: Alan Condit mailto:condit.a...@gmail.com>>
To: EMC-Users mailto:Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>>
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 09:49:43 -0500
Subject: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???
Hi Guys,

I was machining a part on my X2 Minimill. Suddenly it left the programmed track 
(spoiled the part) and didn’t respond to Estop. I powered the system off 
manually raised the Z axis and tried turning it on so I could home it, smoke 
started coming from the controller. So I powered everything down and started 
troubleshooting.
There were two chips on the CandCNC Mini-IO BOB that had let out the magic 
smoke. I had a spare BOB that I built using the Gecko G540 schematic. So I 
replaced the other BOB with it. The drives in the controller are Superior 
Electric SS2000MD4 drives. 

When I got everything put back together and checked the wiring everything 
looked good so I tried powering it up. When I tried homing it the traces move 
in AXIS but there is no movement on the machine. The motors hold position so 
the output of the drives is active. Is it likely that I blew out the inputs on 
the drives?

Thanks,
Alan




-- Forwarded message --
From: Chris Albertson mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com>>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>>
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 08:59:53 -0700
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???
There is a good chance there was a wiring error in you original setup.  The
fact the E-stop did not work tells me there was a design error.  E-Stop
should never fail, or rather if it does fail, the machine stops.  If the
inputs on the drivers are blown, that says the same thing.  Smaething was
wrong as that should never happen.

Diagnosing a system that has a design fault is really hard because our
brain tends to think of how a correct machine would function or how the
machine we THOUGHT we built should function.

The best plan is to ignore LCNC the BOB and all for now and see if you can
drive the motor drivers with a simple signal generator and no computer.
 If this does not work, you need to replace or repair the drivers before
you think about reconnecting a computer.   If you need to buy some test
equipment, now is the time.At least a cheap square wave signal
generator and a cheap $12 logic analyzer t go with your multimeter.

Finally, you should draw a schematic of how you propose to connect the
computer and post it here for others to review.   They will check if
nothing else the e-stop design to see that it is failsafe and also check
that you have the power and computer parts properly isolated.   It seems
this may not have been the case in the past, and you don't want to simply
put it back the way it was.

First step is to verify the motors and drivers work independently of
computer control.



Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

-- Forwarded message --
From: andy pugh mailto:bodge...@gmail.com>>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>>
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 21:23:48 +0100
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Blown BOB and ???
On Sun, 1 May 2022 at 15:53, Alan Condit mailto:condit.a...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> I was machining a part on my X2 Minimill. Suddenly it left the programmed 
> track (spoiled the part)

How? It is almost impossible for a fault to cause extra steps. Does it
appear that one axis simply stopped moving?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912





-- Forwarded message --
From: dave engvall mailto:dengv...@charter.net>>
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 

Re: [Emc-users] Emc-users Digest, Vol 193, Issue 2

[hdpreez2]

The Mesa converter does appear to be just an adaptor
Im in South Africa, i think the shipping would not make it worth while, but
the offer is very kind, thank you. It may even be less expensive to just buy
the adaptors from mesa, then agin you would need 3 of them...

Not sure if the firmware for the DB model will flash to the HD card. Ill see
if i can make any sense of it from the pin files, have not even looked at
that yet

-Original Message-
From: emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net
 
Sent: Monday, 02 May 2022 14:12
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Emc-users Digest, Vol 193, Issue 2

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Today's Topics:

   1. Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50 pin FPGA card??
  (hdpre...@gmail.com)
   2. Re: Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50 pin FPGA
  card?? (J?r?mie Tarot)
   3. Re: Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50 pin FPGA
  card?? (andy pugh)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 06:32:41 +0200
From: 
To: 
Subject: [Emc-users] Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50 pin
FPGA card??
Message-ID: <00d201d85ddd$aa772440$ff656cc0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

HI
Is this possible? 
For example, can I connect a 7i77 + 7i74 to a 7i80HD using a special cable?
I see there is a converter board on Mesa's website, but I only realised now
that I messed u when ordering, and also the 7i80DB's were out of stock.

For this case, can I just refer to the pinout config that mesaflash will
display? Then again, I don't see firmware for the 7i80HD with say 2x7i77
+7i74. Can I use the 7i80DB firmware? 

Regards
Henk




--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 10:17:50 +0200
From: J?r?mie Tarot 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50
pin FPGA card??
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi

Le lun. 2 mai 2022 ? 06:36,  a ?crit :

> HI
> Is this possible?
>

This may be helpful
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product_id=285
... If you can get one !

TY
J


--

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 12:08:16 +0100
From: andy pugh 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50
pin FPGA card??
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Mon, 2 May 2022 at 05:37,  wrote:
>
> HI
> Is this possible?
> For example, can I connect a 7i77 + 7i74 to a 7i80HD using a special
cable?

Do you already have the daughter cards? ie it is too late to swap to 7i33TA
and 7i44 ? Both are relatively cheap and in stock.

I think that it is possible, as you have too many rather than too few
outputs.
(as has been pointed out, Mesa has an adaptor, which appears to be entirely
passive)

Where are you? I can probably be persuaded to do a swap, I have a 7i80DB for
testing purposes and a 7i80HD would probably work just as well for that. But
postage and import taxes might make that unfeasible.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912



--



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End of Emc-users Digest, Vol 193, Issue 2
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Re: [Emc-users] Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50 pin FPGA card??

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 2 May 2022, hdpre...@gmail.com wrote:


Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 06:32:41 +0200
From: hdpre...@gmail.com
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50 pin FPGA
card??

HI
Is this possible?
For example, can I connect a 7i77 + 7i74 to a 7i80HD using a special cable?
I see there is a converter board on Mesa's website, but I only realised now
that I messed u when ordering, and also the 7i80DB's were out of stock.

For this case, can I just refer to the pinout config that mesaflash will
display? Then again, I don't see firmware for the 7i80HD with say 2x7i77
+7i74. Can I use the 7i80DB firmware?

Regards
Henk




Its possible, but needs custom firmware (7I80DB firmware will not work)






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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.



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Re: [Emc-users] Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50 pin FPGA card??

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 2 May 2022 at 05:37,  wrote:
>
> HI
> Is this possible?
> For example, can I connect a 7i77 + 7i74 to a 7i80HD using a special cable?

Do you already have the daughter cards? ie it is too late to swap to
7i33TA and 7i44 ? Both are relatively cheap and in stock.

I think that it is possible, as you have too many rather than too few outputs.
(as has been pointed out, Mesa has an adaptor, which appears to be
entirely passive)

Where are you? I can probably be persuaded to do a swap, I have a
7i80DB for testing purposes and a 7i80HD would probably work just as
well for that. But postage and import taxes might make that
unfeasible.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Connecting Mesa 25 pin daughtercards to 50 pin FPGA card??

[Jérémie Tarot]

Hi

Le lun. 2 mai 2022 à 06:36,  a écrit :

> HI
> Is this possible?
>

This may be helpful
http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product_id=285
... If you can get one !

TY
J

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