Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for ESTOP 
was inverted.  ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you wouldn't find 
out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with the ESTOP.

But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3 axis 
system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's true for 
MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches are needed 
too.

The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that they 
don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat DB200.  
I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone for my 
DB-200 which looks a lot like this one.
https://i.redd.it/83lxxjam0yj71.jpg

For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005195839565.html

But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs.  These are
> programmable processors that are separate from the CPU.  So you can get
> very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux.
> 
> However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a HAL
> unit for the PRUs.  I don�t know if LinuxCNC has this or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone
> >> black.  I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking
> >> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black?  Is there any
> >> way to improve results.
> >
> > I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended
> > to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics
> > performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues.
> >
> > You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the
> > latency with that kernel is better.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[Chris Albertson]

I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs.  These are programmable 
processors that are separate from the CPU.  So you can get very accurate 
real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux.

However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a HAL unit 
for the PRUs.  I don’t know if LinuxCNC has this or not.




> On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone
>> black.  I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking
>> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black?  Is there any
>> way to improve results.
> 
> I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended
> to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics
> performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues.
> 
> You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the
> latency with that kernel is better.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 8/4/23 14:09, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/4/23 14:14, marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk wrote:


I have just managed to buy an 8Gb Pi 4 and had hoped to run LinuxCNC 
into my 7i96S for my small CNC lathe.
I would be disappointed if LinuxCNC on the Pi is not currently being 
supported.


Apparently not ATM, my rpi4 running buster has not received a uspace 
update, just the docs for about 90 days now. And my comments about it 
have been ignored.


The most recent buildbot build of LinuxCNC 2.9 for Raspberry Pi OS 
Buster armhf was about a week ago, both docs & binaries:




I'm running LinuxCNC on a Raspberry Pi 4B (2 GB) using the normal 
debian.org Bookworm arm64 distro, including the Preempt-RT kernel and 
the linuxcnc-uspace deb from the debian.org package archive.  It works fine.



--
Sebastian Kuzminsky



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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

[gene heskett]

On 8/4/23 14:14, marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk wrote:

On 2023-08-04 17:44, John Dammeyer wrote:

I too have a BBB which has been sitting in its box for a very long time, 
partly because the Xylotex boards had disappeared.

Its a shame, and I'd like to use the board on my CNC router.
I understood some of the reasons for the MachineKit fork, but always 
thought it was unfortunate that there had been a fork in the first place.
I really would prefer to use LinuxCNC on the BBB, but would need an 
idiot's guide to installation.


I have just managed to buy an 8Gb Pi 4 and had hoped to run LinuxCNC 
into my 7i96S for my small CNC lathe.
I would be disappointed if LinuxCNC on the Pi is not currently being 
supported.


Marcus


Apparently not ATM, my rpi4 running buster has not received a uspace 
update, just the docs for about 90 days now. And my comments about it 
have been ignored.  Bullseye never did build, the python in bullseye was 
too new.  Soo I'm limping along with what I have. I did do a git clone 
of the recently announce kernel 6.5-rc4-rt, did an very simple make 
menu-config to set as much of the rt stuff as I could find and built it 
without any complaints, but have not investigated what it would take to 
make it run here. I have other irons in the fire to tend to.  The last 
time I did that, the non-compressed tarball was about 28 megs.  No clue 
what it might be with all the changes since:


Linux rpi4.coyote.den 4.19.71-rt24-v7l+ #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Feb 6 
07:09:18 EST 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux


3.7 years ago now.



I'm curious.  I have one of the original Xylotex boards.  The link to
this web site implies there's a newer version along with a link to 4GB
BeagleBone Image for MachineKit which I have read hasn't been
supported for years.
http://xylotex.netfirms.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40_id=169

My BBBs (3 of them) are all sitting in a box unused.  This includes
things like LCD displays, CAN bus capes etc.   I had thought about
adding the BBB with CNC to my Gingery Lathe which currently is
controlled by my Electronic Lead Screw product.

What is the status in general with the BBB and MachineKit or LinuxCNC.
  Should I just put my stuff on EBAY?

I ask because I also have a 1GB Pi4 with a MESA 7i92H as a desktop
play toy.   I think the 1GB is a bit small for LinuxCNC but so far it
has worked.  I'm not sure whether support for LinuxCNC on the PI4 has
also gone by the wayside?

So if someone had a BBB and a cape, installs a version of LinuxCNC
(MachineKit) do they run into what appears to happen often now with
trying to upgrade and unknown web links?
John



-Original Message-
From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: August 3, 2023 1:20 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 17:51, Thomas J Powderly  wrote:

> Is there an explanation of gpiod?

It's a replacement for the sysfs interface for gpio (which hal_pi_gpio
uses, for example).

There is an article about it here:
https://lloydrochester.com/post/hardware/libgpiod-intro-rpi/

I have a working-but-slow demo here:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/15138feb4a1a811a7b61a6605
55d78b85bdcf86c

(later commits in that branch are not working at all at the moment)

to use the BBB output from gpioinfo above:

loadrr hal_gpio inputs=P8_25,P8_24  outputs=P8_10,P811

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
� George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users
 wrote:
>
> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone
> black.  I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking
> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black?  Is there any
> way to improve results.

I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended
to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics
performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues.

You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the
latency with that kernel is better.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 17:50, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> I ask because I also have a 1GB Pi4 with a MESA 7i92H as a desktop play toy.  
>  I think the 1GB is a bit small for LinuxCNC but so far it has worked.  I'm 
> not sure whether support for LinuxCNC on the PI4 has also gone by the wayside?

1GB will probably run LinuxCNC, but 2GB is not enough to compile it.
(As I can't compile it on my 2GB Pi, at least not if using a 64 bit
kernel)

Anyway, the Pi is still supported, and in fact if you install Bookworm
you can just sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace direct from Debian.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

[marcus . bowman]

On 2023-08-04 17:44, John Dammeyer wrote:

I too have a BBB which has been sitting in its box for a very long time, 
partly because the Xylotex boards had disappeared.

Its a shame, and I'd like to use the board on my CNC router.
I understood some of the reasons for the MachineKit fork, but always 
thought it was unfortunate that there had been a fork in the first 
place.
I really would prefer to use LinuxCNC on the BBB, but would need an 
idiot's guide to installation.


I have just managed to buy an 8Gb Pi 4 and had hoped to run LinuxCNC 
into my 7i96S for my small CNC lathe.
I would be disappointed if LinuxCNC on the Pi is not currently being 
supported.


Marcus



I'm curious.  I have one of the original Xylotex boards.  The link to
this web site implies there's a newer version along with a link to 4GB
BeagleBone Image for MachineKit which I have read hasn't been
supported for years.
http://xylotex.netfirms.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40_id=169

My BBBs (3 of them) are all sitting in a box unused.  This includes
things like LCD displays, CAN bus capes etc.   I had thought about
adding the BBB with CNC to my Gingery Lathe which currently is
controlled by my Electronic Lead Screw product.

What is the status in general with the BBB and MachineKit or LinuxCNC.
  Should I just put my stuff on EBAY?

I ask because I also have a 1GB Pi4 with a MESA 7i92H as a desktop
play toy.   I think the 1GB is a bit small for LinuxCNC but so far it
has worked.  I'm not sure whether support for LinuxCNC on the PI4 has
also gone by the wayside?

So if someone had a BBB and a cape, installs a version of LinuxCNC
(MachineKit) do they run into what appears to happen often now with
trying to upgrade and unknown web links?
John



-Original Message-
From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: August 3, 2023 1:20 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 17:51, Thomas J Powderly  
wrote:


> Is there an explanation of gpiod?

It's a replacement for the sysfs interface for gpio (which hal_pi_gpio
uses, for example).

There is an article about it here:
https://lloydrochester.com/post/hardware/libgpiod-intro-rpi/

I have a working-but-slow demo here:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/15138feb4a1a811a7b61a6605
55d78b85bdcf86c

(later commits in that branch are not working at all at the moment)

to use the BBB output from gpioinfo above:

loadrr hal_gpio inputs=P8_25,P8_24  outputs=P8_10,P811

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
� George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

[Chris Albertson]

I have some Pi and BBB boards that I use for robotics projects.  I use them 
because they are physically small and can run on battery power.  But do people 
need that for a machine tool?   Are people building portable battery-powered 
CNC milling machines?If the machine is very heavy and requires AC mains 
power then why not make life easy for yourself and use a big old PC.  

Seriously, you can buy a good used PC that will run circles around a “BBB” for 
not much money.  Add a Measa FPGA card and you are good to go.
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16883461141?Item=9SIABX7JBU8332
Refurbished: DELL Desktop OptiPlex 3040 SFF Intel Core i5 6th Gen 6500 
(3.20GHz) 16 GB DDR4 256 GB SSD DVD Intel HD Graphics 530 Windows 10 Pro Grade A
newegg.com






> On Aug 4, 2023, at 9:44 AM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> I'm curious.  I have one of the original Xylotex boards.  The link to this 
> web site implies there's a newer version along with a link to 4GB BeagleBone 
> Image for MachineKit which I have read hasn't been supported for years.
> http://xylotex.netfirms.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40_id=169
> 
> My BBBs (3 of them) are all sitting in a box unused.  This includes things 
> like LCD displays, CAN bus capes etc.   I had thought about adding the BBB 
> with CNC to my Gingery Lathe which currently is controlled by my Electronic 
> Lead Screw product.
> 
> What is the status in general with the BBB and MachineKit or LinuxCNC.   
> Should I just put my stuff on EBAY?
> 
> I ask because I also have a 1GB Pi4 with a MESA 7i92H as a desktop play toy.  
>  I think the 1GB is a bit small for LinuxCNC but so far it has worked.  I'm 
> not sure whether support for LinuxCNC on the PI4 has also gone by the wayside?
> 
> So if someone had a BBB and a cape, installs a version of LinuxCNC 
> (MachineKit) do they run into what appears to happen often now with trying to 
> upgrade and unknown web links?
> John
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: August 3, 2023 1:20 AM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack
>> 
>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 17:51, Thomas J Powderly  wrote:
>> 
>>> Is there an explanation of gpiod?
>> 
>> It's a replacement for the sysfs interface for gpio (which hal_pi_gpio
>> uses, for example).
>> 
>> There is an article about it here:
>> https://lloydrochester.com/post/hardware/libgpiod-intro-rpi/
>> 
>> I have a working-but-slow demo here:
>> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/15138feb4a1a811a7b61a6605
>> 55d78b85bdcf86c
>> 
>> (later commits in that branch are not working at all at the moment)
>> 
>> to use the BBB output from gpioinfo above:
>> 
>> loadrr hal_gpio inputs=P8_25,P8_24  outputs=P8_10,P811
>> 
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

[John Dammeyer]

I'm curious.  I have one of the original Xylotex boards.  The link to this web 
site implies there's a newer version along with a link to 4GB BeagleBone Image 
for MachineKit which I have read hasn't been supported for years.
http://xylotex.netfirms.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40_id=169

My BBBs (3 of them) are all sitting in a box unused.  This includes things like 
LCD displays, CAN bus capes etc.   I had thought about adding the BBB with CNC 
to my Gingery Lathe which currently is controlled by my Electronic Lead Screw 
product.

What is the status in general with the BBB and MachineKit or LinuxCNC.   Should 
I just put my stuff on EBAY?

I ask because I also have a 1GB Pi4 with a MESA 7i92H as a desktop play toy.   
I think the 1GB is a bit small for LinuxCNC but so far it has worked.  I'm not 
sure whether support for LinuxCNC on the PI4 has also gone by the wayside?

So if someone had a BBB and a cape, installs a version of LinuxCNC (MachineKit) 
do they run into what appears to happen often now with trying to upgrade and 
unknown web links?
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 3, 2023 1:20 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack
> 
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 17:51, Thomas J Powderly  wrote:
> 
> > Is there an explanation of gpiod?
> 
> It's a replacement for the sysfs interface for gpio (which hal_pi_gpio
> uses, for example).
> 
> There is an article about it here:
> https://lloydrochester.com/post/hardware/libgpiod-intro-rpi/
> 
> I have a working-but-slow demo here:
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/15138feb4a1a811a7b61a6605
> 55d78b85bdcf86c
> 
> (later commits in that branch are not working at all at the moment)
> 
> to use the BBB output from gpioinfo above:
> 
> loadrr hal_gpio inputs=P8_25,P8_24  outputs=P8_10,P811
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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