Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[MC Cason]

On 03/28/2017 06:07 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 28 March 2017 at 23:54, MC Cason  wrote:
>> I can envision a future where you see something on whatever
>> future version of the internet is, you order it, and it is built in your
>> home manufacturing unit.  Instant gratification at it's finest.
>> However, a LOT of improvement has to be done before this can happen.
> "Rule 34" by Charles Stross is set in such a future. It's a very good
> book. (but then, everything by Stross is)

   I'll have to look that one up.  I'm a hard SF fan, anything from 
Arthur C Clarke, Larry Niven, and others.


-- 
MC Cason
Eagle3D - Created by Matthias Weißer
github.com/mcason/Eagle3D



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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[andy pugh]

On 28 March 2017 at 23:54, MC Cason  wrote:
> I can envision a future where you see something on whatever
> future version of the internet is, you order it, and it is built in your
> home manufacturing unit.  Instant gratification at it's finest.
> However, a LOT of improvement has to be done before this can happen.

"Rule 34" by Charles Stross is set in such a future. It's a very good
book. (but then, everything by Stross is)


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[MC Cason]

On 03/28/2017 02:25 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> I see the argument as going like this
>
> One group says these 3d printers are worthless because they can't be used
> to make the stuff I am now making.   For example  "I can't print an exhaust
> valve for a diesel truck motor."
>
> The second group sees the printers and thinks about using it for new
> products, making things that can't be made at present,  This group finds
> these printers to be much more useful.
>
> My interest in printing is making machines that can be precision work but
> where the machine itself is very non-precision.  Think about a task like a
> robot arm that can pick up a bolt and nut from two bins of loose parts and
> then thread the bolt into the nut.   Can such a robot machine be made with
> cheap plastic parts for under $100?   I don't know yet but "maybe"
>   Humans hands are not precision machine tools but we use feedback to do
> precision work so there is hope a robot machine could work like that.SO
> just ONE example of serious work can cane done with a cheap 3D printer,
> search into precision materials handing.
>
> Cheap robots that can do precision light assembly work will put millions of
> Chinese factory works out of work and allow those iPhone factories to move
> out ofChina to the US or Europe but my example task, assembling a bolt into
> a nut from loose parts bin is really hard so those people need not worry.

   What you are suggesting is already available today.  Marry that robot 
to a pair of vibratory sorters, and dump your screws into one, and your 
nuts into another.  Then, the vibratory sorters will orient the parts, 
check for over and under size, and make everything that passes, 
available to the robot in a known location.  After that, it is simply a 
software issue to make it work.  With a bit more complexity, a single 
vibratory sorter could be used.

   I was working on vibratory sorters in the early '90s.  The technology 
is much older than that.


> So, 3D printers work well only when the task is matched to their
> capabilities, no surprise there.
>
> Another use for printer-like machines and robot assembly is the comping
> "post industrial revolution"   In the pre-industrial days when you bought a
> pair of shoes or a shirt, you would be measured and the sod custom made
> just for you.  Your clothing would fit well and be just what you wanted,
> assuming you could pay.  Most couldn't.   Then came mass productions and
> and standard sizing and everyone got cheap, but maybe not what you want or
> in the exact size you need.  But cheap is good so we put up with it.The
> next phase is going back to the 1600's where everything is custom made just
> for you one off special.It will happen.  For the consumer it will be
> better, Everything will fit perfect and be in the color and style you want
> and for the retailer there is not inventory cost.   Al of the jobs in this
> new economy pay better too.  No now has to work for $2 per hour in a
> Chinese facility.It might be only 50 years away, some people here may
> live to see it.
>
> These 3D printers are the leading edge of this new economy.   They work
> poorly, but think of automobiles in the 1880's they were horrible and not
> practical at all.  Only for rich people hobby driving.  Only 70 years later
> we built the US interstate hi way system.   We are in the 1880's now with
> respect to the new post industrial economy, 3D printing is still mostly a
> rich man's hobby.

   Think of a 3D printer as a early version of a Star Trek replicator.  
Everything has to start somewhere, and we are the technological guinea 
pigs.  I can envision a future where you see something on whatever 
future version of the internet is, you order it, and it is built in your 
home manufacturing unit.  Instant gratification at it's finest.  
However, a LOT of improvement has to be done before this can happen.

-- 
MC Cason
Eagle3D - Created by Matthias Weißer
github.com/mcason/Eagle3D



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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I think the cake is a little bit funny and it also taste good but it is not the 
best cake around.


On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 12:25:41 -0700
Chris Albertson  wrote:

> I see the argument as going like this
> 
> One group says these 3d printers are worthless because they can't be used
> to make the stuff I am now making.   For example  "I can't print an exhaust
> valve for a diesel truck motor."
> 
> The second group sees the printers and thinks about using it for new
> products, making things that can't be made at present,  This group finds
> these printers to be much more useful.
> 
> My interest in printing is making machines that can be precision work but
> where the machine itself is very non-precision.  Think about a task like a
> robot arm that can pick up a bolt and nut from two bins of loose parts and
> then thread the bolt into the nut.   Can such a robot machine be made with
> cheap plastic parts for under $100?   I don't know yet but "maybe"
>  Humans hands are not precision machine tools but we use feedback to do
> precision work so there is hope a robot machine could work like that.SO
> just ONE example of serious work can cane done with a cheap 3D printer,
> search into precision materials handing.
> 
> Cheap robots that can do precision light assembly work will put millions of
> Chinese factory works out of work and allow those iPhone factories to move
> out ofChina to the US or Europe but my example task, assembling a bolt into
> a nut from loose parts bin is really hard so those people need not worry.
> 
> So, 3D printers work well only when the task is matched to their
> capabilities, no surprise there.
> 
> Another use for printer-like machines and robot assembly is the comping
> "post industrial revolution"   In the pre-industrial days when you bought a
> pair of shoes or a shirt, you would be measured and the sod custom made
> just for you.  Your clothing would fit well and be just what you wanted,
> assuming you could pay.  Most couldn't.   Then came mass productions and
> and standard sizing and everyone got cheap, but maybe not what you want or
> in the exact size you need.  But cheap is good so we put up with it.The
> next phase is going back to the 1600's where everything is custom made just
> for you one off special.It will happen.  For the consumer it will be
> better, Everything will fit perfect and be in the color and style you want
> and for the retailer there is not inventory cost.   Al of the jobs in this
> new economy pay better too.  No now has to work for $2 per hour in a
> Chinese facility.It might be only 50 years away, some people here may
> live to see it.
> 
> These 3D printers are the leading edge of this new economy.   They work
> poorly, but think of automobiles in the 1880's they were horrible and not
> practical at all.  Only for rich people hobby driving.  Only 70 years later
> we built the US interstate hi way system.   We are in the 1880's now with
> respect to the new post industrial economy, 3D printing is still mostly a
> rich man's hobby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Nicklas Karlsson <
> nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > > I have one that is very similar and I bought it pretty much out of
> > > curiosity. It sits in the corner of my office gathering dust. My
> > > experience with 3D printing was pretty underwhelming. It is very finicky
> > > and the results aren't that great. It gets pretty frustrating when
> > > something goes wrong 4 or 5 hours into a print (3D printing is SLOOW).
> > > This type of 3D printing is pretty inaccurate and prone to distortion
> > > due to uneven cooling etc. The prints also aren't that strong. If you
> > > put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
> > > stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
> > > (or usually both together).
> > >
> > > Mechanically these machines aren't bad for the money. The filament feed
> > > motors are a bit under powered and can struggle to feed, especially with
> > > ABS or nylon. The filament is supposed to be fed through a tube to the
> > > head but I found it works much better to mount a roller above the
> > > machine and pass the filament over that. Having two heads is a nice idea
> > > in theory but I found the second head can sometimes knock your part off
> > > the table. I ended up removing the extruder nozzle on the second head.
> > >
> > > I don't regret getting mine. It was an interesting learning exercise but
> > > IMHO hobby level 3D printing has a long way to go before it will become
> > > really useful. If you are serious about building a large format machine
> > > I would definitely suggest getting something like this first.
> >
> > In sweden we have a kind of cake that have been 3D printed for a long time
> > http://sv.visitskane.com/sites/default/files/styles/
> > article_popup/public/field/image/spettekaka.jpg?itok=wPnZiQfK
> >
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[Chris Albertson]

I see the argument as going like this

One group says these 3d printers are worthless because they can't be used
to make the stuff I am now making.   For example  "I can't print an exhaust
valve for a diesel truck motor."

The second group sees the printers and thinks about using it for new
products, making things that can't be made at present,  This group finds
these printers to be much more useful.

My interest in printing is making machines that can be precision work but
where the machine itself is very non-precision.  Think about a task like a
robot arm that can pick up a bolt and nut from two bins of loose parts and
then thread the bolt into the nut.   Can such a robot machine be made with
cheap plastic parts for under $100?   I don't know yet but "maybe"
 Humans hands are not precision machine tools but we use feedback to do
precision work so there is hope a robot machine could work like that.SO
just ONE example of serious work can cane done with a cheap 3D printer,
search into precision materials handing.

Cheap robots that can do precision light assembly work will put millions of
Chinese factory works out of work and allow those iPhone factories to move
out ofChina to the US or Europe but my example task, assembling a bolt into
a nut from loose parts bin is really hard so those people need not worry.

So, 3D printers work well only when the task is matched to their
capabilities, no surprise there.

Another use for printer-like machines and robot assembly is the comping
"post industrial revolution"   In the pre-industrial days when you bought a
pair of shoes or a shirt, you would be measured and the sod custom made
just for you.  Your clothing would fit well and be just what you wanted,
assuming you could pay.  Most couldn't.   Then came mass productions and
and standard sizing and everyone got cheap, but maybe not what you want or
in the exact size you need.  But cheap is good so we put up with it.The
next phase is going back to the 1600's where everything is custom made just
for you one off special.It will happen.  For the consumer it will be
better, Everything will fit perfect and be in the color and style you want
and for the retailer there is not inventory cost.   Al of the jobs in this
new economy pay better too.  No now has to work for $2 per hour in a
Chinese facility.It might be only 50 years away, some people here may
live to see it.

These 3D printers are the leading edge of this new economy.   They work
poorly, but think of automobiles in the 1880's they were horrible and not
practical at all.  Only for rich people hobby driving.  Only 70 years later
we built the US interstate hi way system.   We are in the 1880's now with
respect to the new post industrial economy, 3D printing is still mostly a
rich man's hobby.




On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Nicklas Karlsson <
nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I have one that is very similar and I bought it pretty much out of
> > curiosity. It sits in the corner of my office gathering dust. My
> > experience with 3D printing was pretty underwhelming. It is very finicky
> > and the results aren't that great. It gets pretty frustrating when
> > something goes wrong 4 or 5 hours into a print (3D printing is SLOOW).
> > This type of 3D printing is pretty inaccurate and prone to distortion
> > due to uneven cooling etc. The prints also aren't that strong. If you
> > put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
> > stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
> > (or usually both together).
> >
> > Mechanically these machines aren't bad for the money. The filament feed
> > motors are a bit under powered and can struggle to feed, especially with
> > ABS or nylon. The filament is supposed to be fed through a tube to the
> > head but I found it works much better to mount a roller above the
> > machine and pass the filament over that. Having two heads is a nice idea
> > in theory but I found the second head can sometimes knock your part off
> > the table. I ended up removing the extruder nozzle on the second head.
> >
> > I don't regret getting mine. It was an interesting learning exercise but
> > IMHO hobby level 3D printing has a long way to go before it will become
> > really useful. If you are serious about building a large format machine
> > I would definitely suggest getting something like this first.
>
> In sweden we have a kind of cake that have been 3D printed for a long time
> http://sv.visitskane.com/sites/default/files/styles/
> article_popup/public/field/image/spettekaka.jpg?itok=wPnZiQfK
>
> 
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> I have one that is very similar and I bought it pretty much out of 
> curiosity. It sits in the corner of my office gathering dust. My 
> experience with 3D printing was pretty underwhelming. It is very finicky 
> and the results aren't that great. It gets pretty frustrating when 
> something goes wrong 4 or 5 hours into a print (3D printing is SLOOW). 
> This type of 3D printing is pretty inaccurate and prone to distortion 
> due to uneven cooling etc. The prints also aren't that strong. If you 
> put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the 
> stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate 
> (or usually both together).
> 
> Mechanically these machines aren't bad for the money. The filament feed 
> motors are a bit under powered and can struggle to feed, especially with 
> ABS or nylon. The filament is supposed to be fed through a tube to the 
> head but I found it works much better to mount a roller above the 
> machine and pass the filament over that. Having two heads is a nice idea 
> in theory but I found the second head can sometimes knock your part off 
> the table. I ended up removing the extruder nozzle on the second head.
> 
> I don't regret getting mine. It was an interesting learning exercise but 
> IMHO hobby level 3D printing has a long way to go before it will become 
> really useful. If you are serious about building a large format machine 
> I would definitely suggest getting something like this first.

In sweden we have a kind of cake that have been 3D printed for a long time 
http://sv.visitskane.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_popup/public/field/image/spettekaka.jpg?itok=wPnZiQfK

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