Re: [Emc-users] Best way to configure machine buttons (EMC Logic)
Dave wrote: You should consider CL. For several reasons... You can see the logic on the screen as you run the machine. You can make changes on the fly (almost). Stop, edit, start. You can put various functions in different sections of CL logic. You can comment each line and use symbols to show what each contact or coil is. (snip) And if you need anything sequential like a state machine controlling a toolchanger or lube pump, you should also consider using sequential(grafcet) programming along with CL. For exactly the same reasons Dave explained. I can help you on this. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Best way to configure machine buttons (EMC Logic)
I have a large number of machine controls that are on my Bridgeport Interact mill, such as jog controls, spindle forward/reverse/start/stop, brake etc. I would like to wire them all through EMC/PPMC. Where I am very concerned is producing a configuration that I will be able to understand 3-5-10 years from now. I looked into HALUI and HAL files and logical elements. While I think that I understand why things were done the way they were, I am very concerned that a while later, I will not be able to make any sense of the config and logical elements. That would spell doom for long term use of this mill. I read almost all EMC docs yesterday and it would appear that classic ladder may be a better, more documentable way of looking at control logic. With that in mind, would anyone comment on what is the most documentable approach at wiring those buttons. I also must mention that in my past, I wrote a few parsers/interpreters/compilers and am wondering if anyone looked at creating a simple expression based logic configuration language, that could be automatically translated into and2.1.in and such other EMC specific things. I certainly lack experience with EMC logic, but would be interested in general in helping along this route. Thanks -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Best way to configure machine buttons (EMC Logic)
On Sat, 2010-08-07 at 11:02 -0500, Igor Chudov wrote: ... snip With that in mind, would anyone comment on what is the most documentable approach at wiring those buttons. I also must mention that in my past, I wrote a few parsers/interpreters/compilers and am wondering if anyone looked at creating a simple expression based logic configuration language, that could be automatically translated into and2.1.in and such other EMC specific things. I certainly lack experience with EMC logic, but would be interested in general in helping along this route. ... snip You might want to look at using Eagle to create and document HAL configuration files: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Eagle2HAL -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Best way to configure machine buttons (EMC Logic)
On 7 August 2010 17:02, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote: I looked into HALUI and HAL files and logical elements. While I think that I understand why things were done the way they were, I am very concerned that a while later, I will not be able to make any sense of the config and logical elements. You can add comment lines to HAL files to remind yourself what you are doing. Also note that you don't have to call the logic blocks and2.1 etc, you can allocate them meaningful names (as was recently explained by SWP but I can't recall if it was here, IRC or the forum) For example: (note that there are no spaces in the name definition string) loadrt and2 names=interlock,coolant Will create two and2 blocks but rather than being called and2.0 and and2.1 the first will be called interlock and will have pins interlock.in0, interlock.in1 and interlock.out. (It is probably worth giving them names that make is clear that their internal function is an and operation though) -- atp -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Best way to configure machine buttons (EMC Logic)
Igor Chudov wrote: I have a large number of machine controls that are on my Bridgeport Interact mill, such as jog controls, spindle forward/reverse/start/stop, brake etc. I would like to wire them all through EMC/PPMC. Where I am very concerned is producing a configuration that I will be able to understand 3-5-10 years from now. You have to document it. Make a schematic of the actual wiring, once you get it working the way you want. With numbered wires and terminals, that makes it easier to trace later. Then, add comments for each HAL line that assigns an input pin to a specific function. I looked into HALUI and HAL files and logical elements. While I think that I understand why things were done the way they were, I am very concerned that a while later, I will not be able to make any sense of the config and logical elements. That would spell doom for long term use of this mill. No, it just isn't that complicated. I can go back to EMC configs I haven't worked on in years and figure out what everything does in a few minutes. I read almost all EMC docs yesterday and it would appear that classic ladder may be a better, more documentable way of looking at control logic. I'm not sure Classic Ladder is any better at documentation that HAL, unless you've spent your life in the industrial controls world and ladder diagrams look like road maps to you. If you have very complex controls, like toolchangers with several arms and many many sensors, then CL may be attractive. But, I think you can do what you want very concisely with HAL, too. Some of these connections can be just ONE single line of HAL, linking an input pin to some function in EMC or pyvcp. Others may need a latch, multiplexer or something. Jon -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Best way to configure machine buttons (EMC Logic)
You should consider CL. For several reasons... You can see the logic on the screen as you run the machine. You can make changes on the fly (almost). Stop, edit, start. You can put various functions in different sections of CL logic. You can comment each line and use symbols to show what each contact or coil is. Once you understand how CL works, making a logic rung is much faster than using a bunch of and in Hal. I think the last machine I did has about 60 rungs of CL logic running in 4 different sections. If I was to try and do all of that in Hal, it would be very difficult to follow. That said, the same machine also had some hal conversions and special stepgen connections setup in Hal so you can use both. You don't just have to use one or the other. Dave On 8/7/2010 1:27 PM, Igor Chudov wrote: Jon, and others, thanks. My mill is essentially working fine in 3 axis as of now. Already totally usable, just some buttons do not yet do anything, but I can do everything with a keyboard. The future improvements are an encoder on the spindle and 4th axis (that Troyke table). I will give my best shot to doing things the proper way using element names in general HAL terms. i On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com wrote: Igor Chudov wrote: I have a large number of machine controls that are on my Bridgeport Interact mill, such as jog controls, spindle forward/reverse/start/stop, brake etc. I would like to wire them all through EMC/PPMC. Where I am very concerned is producing a configuration that I will be able to understand 3-5-10 years from now. You have to document it. Make a schematic of the actual wiring, once you get it working the way you want. With numbered wires and terminals, that makes it easier to trace later. Then, add comments for each HAL line that assigns an input pin to a specific function. I looked into HALUI and HAL files and logical elements. While I think that I understand why things were done the way they were, I am very concerned that a while later, I will not be able to make any sense of the config and logical elements. That would spell doom for long term use of this mill. No, it just isn't that complicated. I can go back to EMC configs I haven't worked on in years and figure out what everything does in a few minutes. I read almost all EMC docs yesterday and it would appear that classic ladder may be a better, more documentable way of looking at control logic. I'm not sure Classic Ladder is any better at documentation that HAL, unless you've spent your life in the industrial controls world and ladder diagrams look like road maps to you. If you have very complex controls, like toolchangers with several arms and many many sensors, then CL may be attractive. But, I think you can do what you want very concisely with HAL, too. Some of these connections can be just ONE single line of HAL, linking an input pin to some function in EMC or pyvcp. Others may need a latch, multiplexer or something. Jon -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
