Re: [Emc-users] Building on Ubuntu 9.10 - Addendum
This is the only way to run what is known as 'hard real time' in this environment. It may not be pretty, but it works. Unfortunately the general Ubuntu users population doesn't need realtime response, so the real time kernal mods are an add on. Still it is hard to complain too much when you compare it with the Microsoft situation. At least the Linux kernel is out in the open so it can be modified for realtime operation. No such luck with Microsoft. There are Windows add ons for realtime operation but they are also closed source and very pricey. The problem with a smart SmoothStepper type device is that it cannot be altered by the general public (same as most other commercial CNC controls..). The list of issues with the SmoothStepper is still fairly lengthy. And due to economic issues, demand, the time limits of the developer, etc, the development cycle on the smoothstepper has slowed and perhaps stopped.Many Mach3 users went to the Smoothstepper only to give up on it and go back to the Mach3 LPT driver since they lost functionality. If you want to see an example of this in the Mach3 world, go to the Mach3 forum and do a search on Threading there is a lot to read about that... and the different ways that the Smoothstepper vs Mach3 handles threading has created some issues which are hard to overcome...Then if you want to delve further look into rigid tapping...and why it is possible with EMC2 and not with Mach3.. etc.. The SmoothStepper was not able to implement all of the functions that Mach3 has. As the EMC2 developers explained to me, that is why EMC2 is setup as it is. The heart and soul of EMC2 is in software, alterable by multiple people. In most cases going to different I/O hardware (Mesa, Pico Systems, etc) does not cause you to lose core functionality. The power of EMC2 is in the software architecture and that it is open source with many active developers. Many EMC2 users are also quite familiar with Mach3. ;-) Dave On 4/9/2010 9:14 PM, j...@coats.org wrote: I agree with Stephen. The real time kernel is not an inherent part of what Ubuntu does. Basically it is a microkernel that drives the physical devices and runs Ubuntu, and its applications including the rest of EMC as a task. If an interrupt happens, the microkernel takes over, when it is done it lets 'lower priority functions' like running Ubuntu do what it wants. This is the only way to run what is known as 'hard real time' in this environment. It may not be pretty, but it works. ... Other options are to offload all the real time functions to an appliance like Smooth Stepper by Warp 9 ( http://www.warp9td.com/ ) but it isn't (yet) EMC friendly. (Smooth Stepper requires Mach3 and Windows to work sofar) For the 'old timers' that there are the DOS g-code interpreters. They were effectively stand alone but used DOS as a program loader. I hope this helps someone... -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Building on Ubuntu 9.10 - Addendum
Am I understanding this correctly? Does this application actually require a custom kernel build for every new version of the O/S? -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:e...@dc9.tzo.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 2:23 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Building on Ubuntu 9.10 - Addendum On 4/8/2010 2:08 AM, BillRebey wrote: Note that when I did the wget of the install script, I got the Hardy version, as there didn't appear to be a Karmic version. wget http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh Was this the correct thing to do? -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users I put a Ubuntu 9.10 step by step for an Atom dual core on the Wiki a couple of weeks ago... but unless you are going exactly for that CPU expect some difficulties.. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2 Link is on line 2.11 My step by step should be good for the dual core atoms and probably be ok for a dual core Intel if you turn off Hyperthreading.. I ran it on a dual core celeron (a core2 derrivation) and it worked. The only reason I did it was that I wanted to use some of the newer programming tools that pre-Karmic Ubuntu versions would not accommodate. I now fully understand why the developers don't hop onto each release of Ubuntu... getting it right is a lot of work! Dave (Dave911 on the IRC) -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5011 (20100408) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Building on Ubuntu 9.10 - Addendum
BillRebey wrote: Am I understanding this correctly? Does this application actually require a custom kernel build for every new version of the O/S? It requires a hard realtime kernel, using RTAI or RTLinux. If the new version of the OS has a new kernel version (and depends on features in that kernel), then yes, you need a new RTAI/RTLinux-patched kernel for the new OS. - Steve -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Building on Ubuntu 9.10 - Addendum
I agree with Stephen. The real time kernel is not an inherent part of what Ubuntu does. Basically it is a microkernel that drives the physical devices and runs Ubuntu, and its applications including the rest of EMC as a task. If an interrupt happens, the microkernel takes over, when it is done it lets 'lower priority functions' like running Ubuntu do what it wants. This is the only way to run what is known as 'hard real time' in this environment. It may not be pretty, but it works. ... Other options are to offload all the real time functions to an appliance like Smooth Stepper by Warp 9 ( http://www.warp9td.com/ ) but it isn't (yet) EMC friendly. (Smooth Stepper requires Mach3 and Windows to work sofar) For the 'old timers' that there are the DOS g-code interpreters. They were effectively stand alone but used DOS as a program loader. I hope this helps someone... -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Building on Ubuntu 9.10 - Addendum
Note that when I did the wget of the install script, I got the Hardy version, as there didn't appear to be a Karmic version. wget http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh Was this the correct thing to do? -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Building on Ubuntu 9.10 - Addendum
I just quickly looked (I run Debian Lenny here) There seems to be a change in the way the python packages go together On the ubuntu site for this package https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/python2.5 : “python2.5” source package in Karmic it says (at the bottom of the page): Build conflicts * python-xml * python2.5-xml * tcl8.3-dev * tk8.3-dev Also in Lenny the xml stuff is integrated in the python 5.5 package. So I have little experience with EMC up to now, but previous experience with other stuff tought me to just recompile the source on the machine where it is needed in cases like yours. Quit often the dependencies resolve themselves in that case or I get a backport of a package that is too old. Cheers Jan de Kruyf. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:08 AM, BillRebey b...@rebey.com wrote: Note that when I did the wget of the install script, I got the Hardy version, as there didn't appear to be a Karmic version. wget http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh Was this the correct thing to do? -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Building on Ubuntu 9.10 - Addendum
From: BillRebey b...@rebey.com Note that when I did the wget of the install script, I got the Hardy version, as there didn't appear to be a Karmic version. wget http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh Was this the correct thing to do? Either use precompiled packages on Hardy (they don't work on Karmic), or try to build your own packages for Karmic (that involves kernel, rtai and emc2 packages). There are some experimental packages for karmic [1], but as the name says they are experimental (don't be amazed if your PC blows up ;). Currently we are planning to add packages for Ubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx, as that will be the next LTS release. Regards, Alex [1] - http://linuxcnc.org/experimental/Karmic/ -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Building on Ubuntu 9.10 - Addendum
On 4/8/2010 2:08 AM, BillRebey wrote: Note that when I did the wget of the install script, I got the Hardy version, as there didn't appear to be a Karmic version. wget http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh Was this the correct thing to do? -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users I put a Ubuntu 9.10 step by step for an Atom dual core on the Wiki a couple of weeks ago... but unless you are going exactly for that CPU expect some difficulties.. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2 Link is on line 2.11 My step by step should be good for the dual core atoms and probably be ok for a dual core Intel if you turn off Hyperthreading.. I ran it on a dual core celeron (a core2 derrivation) and it worked. The only reason I did it was that I wanted to use some of the newer programming tools that pre-Karmic Ubuntu versions would not accommodate. I now fully understand why the developers don't hop onto each release of Ubuntu... getting it right is a lot of work! Dave (Dave911 on the IRC) -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
