Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 11:57, Mehdi Dadashzade 
wrote:

> hi andy did you managed to find the ISO 26623 ?


Eventually, yes.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Mehdi Dadashzade]

hi andy did you managed to find the ISO 26623 ?

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 9:32 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 at 18:04, Roland Jollivet 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > I don't know if you adopted Capto from scratch, or had some already, but
> as
> > a new tooling system did you consider the Kennametal KM system?
>
>
> I basically just like Capto (and the fact that it can be connected with a
> simple bolt is nice too, for my applications.)
>
> KM does not get the seal of approval over on Piratical Machinist:
>
> https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/tool-holder-types-capto-c6-vs-hsk-vs-new-km-on-a-milling-lathe.392266/post-3776517
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 at 18:04, Roland Jollivet 
wrote:

>
> I don't know if you adopted Capto from scratch, or had some already, but as
> a new tooling system did you consider the Kennametal KM system?


I basically just like Capto (and the fact that it can be connected with a
simple bolt is nice too, for my applications.)

KM does not get the seal of approval over on Piratical Machinist:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/tool-holder-types-capto-c6-vs-hsk-vs-new-km-on-a-milling-lathe.392266/post-3776517


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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[Emc-users] Capto

[Roland Jollivet]

Hi Andy

I don't know if you adopted Capto from scratch, or had some already, but as
a new tooling system did you consider the Kennametal KM system?

See on Ebay

;

Or
https://www.kennametal.com/us/en/products/metalworking-tools/tool-holders-and-adapters/km/km-systems.html

Regards
Roland

On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 at 02:35, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 at 00:25, Chris Morley 
> wrote:
>
> > I too have catpo 3,4 and 5 tools. I look forward to reading/seeing your
> adventure in this.
> > I also agree it would surely show off some of linuxcncs advantages!
>
> I am becoming really keen on Capto. It's like the best of all worlds.
> And it's super-short too.
>
> I discovered this weekend that the equation in the standards doesn't
> give even spacing around the circle. It's epicycles in Xi, 2Xi and
> 4Xi, so that's no surprise.
>
> Today I have been tabulating lookup tables at evenly spaced centre
> angles (successive approximation in Xi to get a target theta) and I
> have a HAL component ready to run.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Dave Engvall]

Just cheat a bit. If you are belt driven then put a small idler/tensioner 
pulley arranged to be driven by the main belt.  
On the Mazak the servo motors had resolvers built in: with a 1:7 gear to 
increase the resolution .

> On Jan 4, 2024, at 7:14 AM, Sam Sokolik  wrote:
> 
> We had gotten some 5000 line - 2 count encoders on ebay a while back.
> It certainly helped..  Higher would be nicer.,.(for bigger diameter testing)
> 
> sam
> 
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:08 AM andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 at 13:39, gene heskett  wrote:
>> 
>>> Humm, that may call for a higher resolution spindle encoder than I have
>>> on my Sheldon,
>> 
>> I have a resolver on the spindle of my lathe, which the Mesa 7i49
>> converts into a 14-bit number, so should have enough resolution.
>> (linearity of the resolver is not something that I have ever tested)
>> 
>> But I don't quite understand why you are worrying about whether you
>> can make Capto shanks on your Sheldon?
>> 
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Przemek Klosowski]

The title translates as "attachment nr. 5.2 grinder for openings drawings".

Another Pole in an imaginary plane :)
p

On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 4:51 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 at 21:26, Przemek Klosowski
>  wrote:
> >
> > I see what looks like the correct formulas on p. 18 of this document ;
> > where are the incorrect ones?
>
> Page 26.
>
> But I had a different document, rendered on my PC as ZaÅ‚Ä?cznik nr
> 5.2 szlifierka do otworów rysunki.pdf
> (Looks like v5.2 of the same doc)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 23:52, andy pugh  wrote:

> x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
> y'= Dm/2×sinØ +2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)
>
> Plotted out this is very close to the shape that I had but differs by
> about 30 microns at the worst spots.
>
> The good news is that this is very easy to convert to either XY
> offsets for boring, or a radius for computed offset on a lathe as it
> is already in terms of spindle angle Ø.

I was wrong here. The Xi angle is a generator only, it gives you x,y
points but the angle is _not_ the centre angle, so it can't be used
directly as the spindle angle.

I explain this all in my recent YouTube video,  with an animation of
how the generator works.
https://youtu.be/YDxyNChCILU?si=1kMJ5d7FZ9qKFlAl

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 at 21:26, Przemek Klosowski
 wrote:
>
> I see what looks like the correct formulas on p. 18 of this document ;
> where are the incorrect ones?

Page 26.

But I had a different document, rendered on my PC as ZaÅ‚Ä?cznik nr
5.2 szlifierka do otworów rysunki.pdf
(Looks like v5.2 of the same doc)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Przemek Klosowski]

I see what looks like the correct formulas on p. 18 of this document ;
where are the incorrect ones?

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 6:55 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 22:01, andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > This means that the large and small arcs are tangent to each other,
> > which requires that their centres lie on a perpendicular line, and
> > that in turn means that the arc centres of small and large arcs must
> > be coincident.
>
> Close, but no cigar, it seems.
>
> There is an equation in an online document
> (
> https://archiwum-bazakonkurencyjnosci.funduszeeuropejskie.gov.pl/file/download/587886
> )
> that isn't actually correct:
>
> x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
> y'= Dm/2×sinØ -2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)
>
> However, after getting hold of a pirate copy of the standard, it turns
> out that it was only slightly wrong. This is what it should be. ( -+++
> not -+-+)
>
> x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
> y'= Dm/2×sinØ +2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)
>
> Plotted out this is very close to the shape that I had but differs by
> about 30 microns at the worst spots.
>
> The good news is that this is very easy to convert to either XY
> offsets for boring, or a radius for computed offset on a lathe as it
> is already in terms of spindle angle Ø.
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 at 00:25, Chris Morley  wrote:

> I too have catpo 3,4 and 5 tools. I look forward to reading/seeing your 
> adventure in this.
> I also agree it would surely show off some of linuxcncs advantages!

I am becoming really keen on Capto. It's like the best of all worlds.
And it's super-short too.

I discovered this weekend that the equation in the standards doesn't
give even spacing around the circle. It's epicycles in Xi, 2Xi and
4Xi, so that's no surprise.

Today I have been tabulating lookup tables at evenly spaced centre
angles (successive approximation in Xi to get a target theta) and I
have a HAL component ready to run.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Chris Morley]

Andy

I too have catpo 3,4 and 5 tools. I look forward to reading/seeing your 
adventure in this.
I also agree it would surely show off some of linuxcncs advantages!

Chris

From: andy pugh 
Sent: January 3, 2024 11:52 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Capto

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 22:01, andy pugh  wrote:

> This means that the large and small arcs are tangent to each other,
> which requires that their centres lie on a perpendicular line, and
> that in turn means that the arc centres of small and large arcs must
> be coincident.

Close, but no cigar, it seems.

There is an equation in an online document
(https://archiwum-bazakonkurencyjnosci.funduszeeuropejskie.gov.pl/file/download/587886)
that isn't actually correct:

x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
y'= Dm/2×sinØ -2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)

However, after getting hold of a pirate copy of the standard, it turns
out that it was only slightly wrong. This is what it should be. ( -+++
not -+-+)

x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
y'= Dm/2×sinØ +2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)

Plotted out this is very close to the shape that I had but differs by
about 30 microns at the worst spots.

The good news is that this is very easy to convert to either XY
offsets for boring, or a radius for computed offset on a lathe as it
is already in terms of spindle angle Ø.


--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[gene heskett]

On 1/4/24 10:08, andy pugh wrote:

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 at 13:39, gene heskett  wrote:


Humm, that may call for a higher resolution spindle encoder than I have
on my Sheldon,


I have a resolver on the spindle of my lathe, which the Mesa 7i49
converts into a 14-bit number, so should have enough resolution.
(linearity of the resolver is not something that I have ever tested)

The linearity may not be the most important characteristic, although in 
a lathe where the chuck is relatively massive it shouldn't matter that 
much for steadily turning use, but in for instance a 3d printer, all 
those conversions take time, which has bad effects on the nyquist 
stability of the feedback loop regulating that speed. in the lathe case 
it might mean a following error because by the time that position is 
known, the spindle has turned further. This is not a problem with a 
quadrature encoder as the position and direction is known fresh with 
every edge that goes by.  No time lag.


About 3 years ago one of the Chinese motor makers came out with the 
ideal sized nema 17 motor, using a hall effect as the feedback 
generator, while the hall effect can work at several times the optical 
accuracy its always working with stale data, so it jerks to catchup. 
Everyone who put the 42C motors on their printers, took them off the 
next day as their prints looked like they were shingled.  That motor is 
a good motor, for something that needs a programmed position and 
stopped. Great for a smaller tool changer. The same motor with an 
optical encoder moves so smooth I had to grab the printhead to verify 
klippers "stepper_buzz" motor tester was indeed moving the motor 1mm 
back and forth.  Originally intro-ed at about $35 to $40 USD, now they 
can't give them away at $9.95



But I don't quite understand why you are worrying about whether you
can make Capto shanks on your Sheldon?


Take care, stay warm and well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis



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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[gene heskett]

On 1/4/24 10:08, andy pugh wrote:

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 at 13:39, gene heskett  wrote:


Humm, that may call for a higher resolution spindle encoder than I have
on my Sheldon,


I have a resolver on the spindle of my lathe, which the Mesa 7i49
converts into a 14-bit number, so should have enough resolution.
(linearity of the resolver is not something that I have ever tested)

But I don't quite understand why you are worrying about whether you
can make Capto shanks on your Sheldon?


Like some other things I've done Andy, just to prove I can do it. 
That's why my Sheldon is being run by a pi. And run very well.  I'm not 
a working shop, just a hobbiest (with poor math skills) in search of the 
knowledge.


Take care, stay warm and well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis



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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Sam Sokolik]

We had gotten some 5000 line - 2 count encoders on ebay a while back.
It certainly helped..  Higher would be nicer.,.(for bigger diameter testing)

sam

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:08 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 at 13:39, gene heskett  wrote:
>
> > Humm, that may call for a higher resolution spindle encoder than I have
> > on my Sheldon,
>
> I have a resolver on the spindle of my lathe, which the Mesa 7i49
> converts into a 14-bit number, so should have enough resolution.
> (linearity of the resolver is not something that I have ever tested)
>
> But I don't quite understand why you are worrying about whether you
> can make Capto shanks on your Sheldon?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 at 13:39, gene heskett  wrote:

> Humm, that may call for a higher resolution spindle encoder than I have
> on my Sheldon,

I have a resolver on the spindle of my lathe, which the Mesa 7i49
converts into a 14-bit number, so should have enough resolution.
(linearity of the resolver is not something that I have ever tested)

But I don't quite understand why you are worrying about whether you
can make Capto shanks on your Sheldon?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[gene heskett]

On 1/3/24 18:54, andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 22:01, andy pugh  wrote:


This means that the large and small arcs are tangent to each other,
which requires that their centres lie on a perpendicular line, and
that in turn means that the arc centres of small and large arcs must
be coincident.


Close, but no cigar, it seems.

There is an equation in an online document
(https://archiwum-bazakonkurencyjnosci.funduszeeuropejskie.gov.pl/file/download/587886)
that isn't actually correct:

x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
y'= Dm/2×sinØ -2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)

However, after getting hold of a pirate copy of the standard, it turns
out that it was only slightly wrong. This is what it should be. ( -+++
not -+-+)

x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
y'= Dm/2×sinØ +2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)

Plotted out this is very close to the shape that I had but differs by
about 30 microns at the worst spots.

The good news is that this is very easy to convert to either XY
offsets for boring, or a radius for computed offset on a lathe as it
is already in terms of spindle angle Ø.

Humm, that may call for a higher resolution spindle encoder than I have 
on my Sheldon, I'm watching the 60 tooth gear on the spindle si my 
ultimate accuracy given perfct gears is 1.5 degrees, and that is noisy 
as hell because of the wear from 75 years of back gear over engagement 
which has rounded the taller teeth quite noticeably. I would not swear 
that any one edge is any closer than two degrees because of this wear. 
The vfd makes a good filter.


I'd bet a $20 you could see the teeth as a pattern in an otherwise good 
grind.


Letting my mind out to play w/o a chaperone, a 1000 line Omron encoder 
for $20.00 shipped on fleabay, driven by printed 1/1 timing sprockets 
with the driving gear pressed onto the smaller gear that is now unused 
on the back of the spindle would give a .36 degree accuracy.  I just 
looked to see whats in the way, nothing as thats all been removed. 
Plenty of room for a 6mm belt sprocket, as actually there's 2 gears, one 
on each side of the rear bearing. And the outside one is totally unused 
now.  This might be a good excuse to put a higher resolution encoder on 
my Sheldon. And teach it yet another new trick.  The wheels are 
spinning, but need lubed, at 89 they are getting rusty. :o)>


Thanks Andy.


--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis



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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 23:21, gene heskett  wrote:

> mailing list did fine, Andy. Is there also a z taper?

Yes. 1º26'21"  +/- 25" or 1.43916 +/- 0.007 degrees. Approximately
1:40. (1:40 is one edge of the tolerance)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 22:01, andy pugh  wrote:

> This means that the large and small arcs are tangent to each other,
> which requires that their centres lie on a perpendicular line, and
> that in turn means that the arc centres of small and large arcs must
> be coincident.

Close, but no cigar, it seems.

There is an equation in an online document
(https://archiwum-bazakonkurencyjnosci.funduszeeuropejskie.gov.pl/file/download/587886)
that isn't actually correct:

x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
y'= Dm/2×sinØ -2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)

However, after getting hold of a pirate copy of the standard, it turns
out that it was only slightly wrong. This is what it should be. ( -+++
not -+-+)

x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
y'= Dm/2×sinØ +2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)

Plotted out this is very close to the shape that I had but differs by
about 30 microns at the worst spots.

The good news is that this is very easy to convert to either XY
offsets for boring, or a radius for computed offset on a lathe as it
is already in terms of spindle angle Ø.


--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[gene heskett]

On 1/3/24 17:03, andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 19:17, andrew beck  wrote:


Well I have a lot of capto c6 tooling and I would love to be able to make
my own tooling

Not sure on dimensions though


I bought a C3 tool from eBay to find out, and it does actually appear
to be a variant of the Reuleaux triangle, in that the gauge line
measures exactly 22.00mm no matter what angle is is measured at.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuleaux_triangle

This means that the large and small arcs are tangent to each other,
which requires that their centres lie on a perpendicular line, and
that in turn means that the arc centres of small and large arcs must
be coincident.

So, drawing it up in CAD we get:

C3 - 32mm Dm = 22 Rmaj = 15.525 Rmin = 6.475
C4 - 40mm Dm = 28 Rmaj = 19.818 Rmin = 8.182
C5 - 50mm Dm = 35 Rmaj = 24.740 Rmin = 10.260
C6 - 63mm Dm = 44 Rmaj = 31.050 Rmin = 12.950
C7 - 80mm Dm = 55 Rmaj = 40.428 Rmin = 14.572

If the mailing list lets it through, the attached image shows the
construction of the profile for C6 (large end)


mailing list did fine, Andy. Is there also a z taper?



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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[gene heskett]

On 1/3/24 14:13, Andrew beck wrote:

Well I have a lot of capto c6 tooling and I would love to be able to make
my own tooling

Not sure on dimensions though

Has anyone investigated the legal status of a clean room scan of it, 
then doing a least squares analisys?



On Wed, 3 Jan 2024, 14:03 Sam Sokolik,  wrote:


and and...  If the receiver shape is just scaled along its taper - then the
work is done with the hal component..  But would we be that lucky?

sam

On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 6:46 PM andy pugh  wrote:


On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 00:36, Sam Sokolik  wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/23bEsKMNJH0


Indeed. Making Capto receivers would be an ideal way to show off with
LinuxCNC. We just need that pesky equation.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis



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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andrew beck]

Well I have a lot of capto c6 tooling and I would love to be able to make
my own tooling

Not sure on dimensions though

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024, 14:03 Sam Sokolik,  wrote:

> and and...  If the receiver shape is just scaled along its taper - then the
> work is done with the hal component..  But would we be that lucky?
>
> sam
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 6:46 PM andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 00:36, Sam Sokolik  wrote:
> >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/shorts/23bEsKMNJH0
> >
> > Indeed. Making Capto receivers would be an ideal way to show off with
> > LinuxCNC. We just need that pesky equation.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Sam Sokolik]

and and...  If the receiver shape is just scaled along its taper - then the
work is done with the hal component..  But would we be that lucky?

sam

On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 6:46 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 00:36, Sam Sokolik  wrote:
>
> > https://www.youtube.com/shorts/23bEsKMNJH0
>
> Indeed. Making Capto receivers would be an ideal way to show off with
> LinuxCNC. We just need that pesky equation.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 00:36, Sam Sokolik  wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/23bEsKMNJH0

Indeed. Making Capto receivers would be an ideal way to show off with
LinuxCNC. We just need that pesky equation.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Sam Sokolik]

Having a decently high count encoder on the spindle - you don't need a
'servo' spindle..  You can do fancy stuff like...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/23bEsKMNJH0




> In that event, stretch the definition of spindle to include drives
> similar to the A drive on the G0704, or the B drive on my 6040.
>
> Those are both 3 phase stepper/servo's of 3nm power, both driving an
> rvs30 series worm drive for a 5/1 reduction.  These worms do have a half
> degree of backlash that may not be wholly consistent, but I'm carving
> buttress threads with them in synchronized motions, works fine.  Top
> speeds of something in the 400 rpm range.  At a speed your Z drive can
> track is a Sunday drive for that combo.
>
> We have the trig functions, and a simple multiply based on the
> remainder(mod) could easily return a triangular shape if its a sine. I'm
> positive I could come up with something on the 6040 doable with its 24k
> rev spindle and a CBN wheel. Not fast mind you, but doable. CBN is
> gawdawful $$$ and fragile in shapes and sizes I've found but it will
> "get the job done".  It is much like diamond but cuts HSS w/o destroying
> both as there is no carbon in it. Leaves no wire edge to be easily
> broken off and dulled, HSS is finished like a shaving mirror. All it
> should take is somebody better at math than me.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 at 13:19, Adam McLeod  wrote:
>
>  If
> you search "capto iso polygon shank" in duckduckgo search engine right
> now, you may find that there is a "preview" of that standard in a pdf
> that probably has the details you're looking for near the top of the
> search results.

I have found all of part 2, and the first 5 pages of part 1. I think
that the actual shape definition is in the second half of part 1.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] Capto

[Roland Jollivet]

And here is a Capto profile being ground;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALRAiiMxTnk

Roland



On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 at 18:02, gene heskett  wrote:

> On 1/2/24 08:17, Adam McLeod wrote:
> > Fortunately, Sandvik standardized the Capto shank via ISO 26623. It is
> > called a "Polygonal taper interface with flange contact surface".  If
> > you search "capto iso polygon shank" in duckduckgo search engine right
> > now, you may find that there is a "preview" of that standard in a pdf
> > that probably has the details you're looking for near the top of the
> > search results.
> >
> > On 2024-01-01 9:04 p.m., Sam Sokolik wrote:
> >> boy - there doesn't seem to be much info on that shape.. It does look
> >> like
> >> it could be machined/ground with spindle synced motion..
> >>
> In that event, stretch the definition of spindle to include drives
> similar to the A drive on the G0704, or the B drive on my 6040.
>
> Those are both 3 phase stepper/servo's of 3nm power, both driving an
> rvs30 series worm drive for a 5/1 reduction.  These worms do have a half
> degree of backlash that may not be wholly consistent, but I'm carving
> buttress threads with them in synchronized motions, works fine.  Top
> speeds of something in the 400 rpm range.  At a speed your Z drive can
> track is a Sunday drive for that combo.
>
> We have the trig functions, and a simple multiply based on the
> remainder(mod) could easily return a triangular shape if its a sine. I'm
> positive I could come up with something on the 6040 doable with its 24k
> rev spindle and a CBN wheel. Not fast mind you, but doable. CBN is
> gawdawful $$$ and fragile in shapes and sizes I've found but it will
> "get the job done".  It is much like diamond but cuts HSS w/o destroying
> both as there is no carbon in it. Leaves no wire edge to be easily
> broken off and dulled, HSS is finished like a shaving mirror. All it
> should take is somebody better at math than me.
>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
>
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[gene heskett]

On 1/2/24 08:17, Adam McLeod wrote:
Fortunately, Sandvik standardized the Capto shank via ISO 26623. It is 
called a "Polygonal taper interface with flange contact surface".  If 
you search "capto iso polygon shank" in duckduckgo search engine right 
now, you may find that there is a "preview" of that standard in a pdf 
that probably has the details you're looking for near the top of the 
search results.


On 2024-01-01 9:04 p.m., Sam Sokolik wrote:
boy - there doesn't seem to be much info on that shape.. It does look 
like

it could be machined/ground with spindle synced motion..

In that event, stretch the definition of spindle to include drives 
similar to the A drive on the G0704, or the B drive on my 6040.


Those are both 3 phase stepper/servo's of 3nm power, both driving an 
rvs30 series worm drive for a 5/1 reduction.  These worms do have a half 
degree of backlash that may not be wholly consistent, but I'm carving 
buttress threads with them in synchronized motions, works fine.  Top 
speeds of something in the 400 rpm range.  At a speed your Z drive can 
track is a Sunday drive for that combo.


We have the trig functions, and a simple multiply based on the 
remainder(mod) could easily return a triangular shape if its a sine. I'm 
positive I could come up with something on the 6040 doable with its 24k 
rev spindle and a CBN wheel. Not fast mind you, but doable. CBN is 
gawdawful $$$ and fragile in shapes and sizes I've found but it will 
"get the job done".  It is much like diamond but cuts HSS w/o destroying 
both as there is no carbon in it. Leaves no wire edge to be easily 
broken off and dulled, HSS is finished like a shaving mirror. All it 
should take is somebody better at math than me.





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--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis



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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Adam McLeod]

Sorry, I meant to include the actual angle: 1°26'21" +/-25"

On 2024-01-02 8:03 a.m., Adam McLeod wrote:
Fortunately, Sandvik standardized the Capto shank via ISO 26623. It is 
called a "Polygonal taper interface with flange contact surface".  If 
you search "capto iso polygon shank" in duckduckgo search engine right 
now, you may find that there is a "preview" of that standard in a pdf 
that probably has the details you're looking for near the top of the 
search results.





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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Adam McLeod]

Fortunately, Sandvik standardized the Capto shank via ISO 26623. It is 
called a "Polygonal taper interface with flange contact surface".  If 
you search "capto iso polygon shank" in duckduckgo search engine right 
now, you may find that there is a "preview" of that standard in a pdf 
that probably has the details you're looking for near the top of the 
search results.


On 2024-01-01 9:04 p.m., Sam Sokolik wrote:

boy - there doesn't seem to be much info on that shape.. It does look like
it could be machined/ground with spindle synced motion..




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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Sam Sokolik]

boy - there doesn't seem to be much info on that shape.. It does look like
it could be machined/ground with spindle synced motion..

Interesting..

sam

On Mon, Jan 1, 2024 at 11:30 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> Does anyone have the dimensions and profile specification for the capto
> system?
> I think that it has a 1.4 degree taper (though I don't know if that is
> included angle or half-angle) but the triangle shape is harder to
> find.
>
> I am curious whether it can be machined with spindle synched offsets
> using LinuxCNC.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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[Emc-users] Capto

[andy pugh]

Does anyone have the dimensions and profile specification for the capto system?
I think that it has a 1.4 degree taper (though I don't know if that is
included angle or half-angle) but the triangle shape is harder to
find.

I am curious whether it can be machined with spindle synched offsets
using LinuxCNC.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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